NADAC Forum

Championships 2016 => Championships 2016 => Topic started by: Jeanne Allen on March 26, 2016, 01:25:11 PM

Title: Pre-Elite requrements
Post by: Jeanne Allen on March 26, 2016, 01:25:11 PM
The premium says the requirements for Pre-Elite are 100 points in Regular.  My question, can those points come from Intro, or do they have to be from Novice and/or Open?
Title: Re: Pre-Elite requrements
Post by: Sharon Nelson on March 26, 2016, 01:32:40 PM
The premium says the requirements for Pre-Elite are 100 points in Regular.  My question, can those points come from Intro, or do they have to be from Novice and/or Open?

All points count.

Sharon
Title: Re: Pre-Elite requrements
Post by: Jeanne Allen on March 26, 2016, 03:24:37 PM
Thanks for the quick reply!  Just wanted to double check.  So that now means Jester is also qualified for Champs!  Now for me to make a decision on if I want to run both dogs at Champs.   
Title: Re: Pre-Elite requrements
Post by: Sharon Nelson on March 26, 2016, 03:26:36 PM
Thanks for the quick reply!  Just wanted to double check.  So that now means Jester is also qualified for Champs!  Now for me to make a decision on if I want to run both dogs at Champs.   

So true!  But Jester is going to settle in this year and get solid for you!!

Sharon
Title: Re: Pre-Elite requrements
Post by: Jeanne Allen on March 26, 2016, 04:00:37 PM
Thanks for the encouraging words on Jester.  He has come a long way, but there is still plenty of room for improvement.  If nothing else, maybe he could be some comic relief running in Champs!
Title: Re: Pre-Elite requrements
Post by: AgilityRocks! on March 28, 2016, 08:21:46 AM
This is such an awesome option!  Sissy and I may come play at Champs then!  So cool! 8)
Title: Re: Pre-Elite requrements
Post by: Julie MacLeod on April 28, 2016, 03:56:11 PM
Can any of the 100 regular points come from Elite?  Or should a Pre-Elite dog have 0 Elite Regular points? 

Thanks,

Julie MacLeod

Title: Re: Pre-Elite requrements
Post by: Sharon Nelson on April 28, 2016, 09:08:43 PM
Can any of the 100 regular points come from Elite?  Or should a Pre-Elite dog have 0 Elite Regular points? 

Thanks,

Julie MacLeod

Yes, some points can come from Elite, but the dog should not earned over 100 points in Elite Regular.  Once they are over 100 in Elite, they need to enter Elite.

Sharon
Title: Re: Pre-Elite requrements
Post by: Julie MacLeod on April 29, 2016, 10:10:26 AM
Excellent, thanks!
Title: Re: Pre-Elite requrements
Post by: Kyle on April 29, 2016, 09:55:49 PM

Yes, some points can come from Elite, but the dog should not earned over 100 points in Elite Regular.  Once they are over 100 in Elite, they need to enter Elite.

Sharon

Doesn't that seem a little, well, uh, not quite "Pre-Elite" to have up to 100 points in Elite Regular....??? Just wondering....

Thanks,
Kyle
Title: Re: Pre-Elite requrements
Post by: Sharon Nelson on April 29, 2016, 10:30:16 PM

Yes, some points can come from Elite, but the dog should not earned over 100 points in Elite Regular.  Once they are over 100 in Elite, they need to enter Elite.

Sharon

Doesn't that seem a little, well, uh, not quite "Pre-Elite" to have up to 100 points in Elite Regular....??? Just wondering....

Thanks,
Kyle

It has worked well that way in the past.  Last year we had no requirements and several dogs had NATCHes and beyond and entered Pre-Elite.  This year we will go back to our previous requirements of no more than 100 points in Elite.  In the past if a person enters Elite prior to the champs it happens in the month prior to the event, so they aren't very "experienced".  If they enter and already have 100 points in Elite, then they would have to go back to Open in order to stay eligible.

If the dog earns more Elite points after August 1, they will count towards their total Elite level earned points and the dog would be moved into Elite.  It worked for many, many years in the past so we will go back to our older requirements.

Sharon
Title: Re: Pre-Elite requrements
Post by: Vicki Storrs on April 30, 2016, 01:46:11 AM
Just a general question about this "new" requirement for pre-elite (realize you have done it this way in the past but just not last year). The requirement you mention, no more than 100 Elite Regular points earned in order to be eligible for Pre-elite, is not noted anywhere on the premium. Since there is a different entry fee for the two classes, and since not everyone is as anal as I am about reading all the posts on the forum (:o) isn't there the risk that there will be people not aware of this requirement who may enter incorrectly with the wrong $s?  Maybe I'm just being a nosy worry wart, since it's not a problem that would affect me, but seems like it could potentially be a bit of a problem for the "NADAC office staff"... 
I know at least in my area last year there was a LOT of discussion about who could/should enter pre-elite, but "by the letter of the law" weren't any restrictions in the premium--and aren't this year either--so it became a personal decision. Which is fine, but I just see people reading the premium and making those same choices now, only for NADAC to have to inform them that their entry is incorrect and they need to send more money because of "unwritten" requirements.  A hassle for both sides...
Vicki
Title: Re: Pre-Elite requrements
Post by: Sharon Nelson on April 30, 2016, 02:32:01 AM
Just a general question about this "new" requirement for pre-elite (realize you have done it this way in the past but just not last year). The requirement you mention, no more than 100 Elite Regular points earned in order to be eligible for Pre-elite, is not noted anywhere on the premium. Since there is a different entry fee for the two classes, and since not everyone is as anal as I am about reading all the posts on the forum (:o) isn't there the risk that there will be people not aware of this requirement who may enter incorrectly with the wrong $s?  Maybe I'm just being a nosy worry wart, since it's not a problem that would affect me, but seems like it could potentially be a bit of a problem for the "NADAC office staff"... 
I know at least in my area last year there was a LOT of discussion about who could/should enter pre-elite, but "by the letter of the law" weren't any restrictions in the premium--and aren't this year either--so it became a personal decision. Which is fine, but I just see people reading the premium and making those same choices now, only for NADAC to have to inform them that their entry is incorrect and they need to send more money because of "unwritten" requirements.  A hassle for both sides...
Vicki

Great input, Vicki!  I thought the updated premium was uploaded but I see that it isn't.  I will upload a new copy with those specifications.  Thanks so much for checking and giving great input!

Sharon
Title: Re: Pre-Elite requrements
Post by: LexiBrigante on May 05, 2016, 10:38:21 PM
I do have a question about the requirements. You said that someone shouldn't get 100 reg Points in elite to compete in pre elite. However what if someone gets the 100 points in elite where they have been competing for awhile but can't get 2 Qs in even open chances. Would they be allowed to compete in pre elite. I am only asking because I have a student that does have 100 points in elite but doesn't even have 1 open chances Q. They would like to go to champs this year and I think pre elite would be more for their level.
Title: Re: Pre-Elite requrements
Post by: Sharon Nelson on May 06, 2016, 01:04:41 AM
I do have a question about the requirements. You said that someone shouldn't get 100 reg Points in elite to compete in pre elite. However what if someone gets the 100 points in elite where they have been competing for awhile but can't get 2 Qs in even open chances. Would they be allowed to compete in pre elite. I am only asking because I have a student that does have 100 points in elite but doesn't even have 1 open chances Q. They would like to go to champs this year and I think pre elite would be more for their level.

Once they have more than 100 points in Elite Regular, they can't enter Pre-Elite.  They might be able to enter as second chance entries if the entry level isn't filled.

Sharon
Title: Re: Pre-Elite requrements
Post by: Kyle on May 07, 2016, 07:09:08 AM
I was almost to the point of understanding why a dog with 100 Elite points *might* be eligible to enter a "Pre" Elite class, but now I really don't understand how a dog, using the "second chance" option with more than 100 points, could be a Pre-Elite dog....?

I didn't mind having to compete against Open level dogs but with the thought of dogs with multiple Elite Qs running against much lower experienced dogs just doesn't sound so much fun for *me*. My young dog won't care, and, yes, the experience of just being there would be great for her, but for me,  I'm kind of hoping for a more level playing field. Yes, I'm a competitive person who enjoys going to Champs to see dogs who have worked to qualify just to enter. This just seems skewed.....

 Maybe I just don't get why someone with an Elite dog wouldn't enter Elite????

Kyle
Title: Re: Pre-Elite requrements
Post by: Vicki Storrs on May 07, 2016, 10:21:57 AM
Sorry Kyle I can't agree. Agility is NEVER a completely level playing field. What is fair to one person will almost always be unfair to Someone else. My old dog would jump minus 4" if he could take all the drops available to him (skilled, age and breed) but competes against dogs 3 jump heights above that at Champs (imagine 8" dogs competing on equal footing with 20" dogs). I don't care, we've gone twice and had a great time.   A friend's dog, who would benefit from a height drop, has their birthday right after champs. Another might have Their birthday the week before and get that 4" drop. Fair? This year there have been some parameters added to pre-elite--dogs can have "some" elite Qs. I think 100 points is not Unfair--many dogs have 100 without yet being consistently elite level dogs. How would you feel if next year your young dog had 90 elite points after 9 tries and was still eligible?  Or 100 after 30 or 40 tries and wasn't?  Last year Anybody could run in pre-elite. This year the field has been limited. I think That is fairer.  It's Champs.  Go and have fun.
Vicki
Title: Re: Pre-Elite requrements
Post by: Marcy Matties on May 07, 2016, 11:58:19 AM
I was almost to the point of understanding why a dog with 100 Elite points *might* be eligible to enter a "Pre" Elite class, but now I really don't understand how a dog, using the "second chance" option with more than 100 points, could be a Pre-Elite dog....?

I didn't mind having to compete against Open level dogs but with the thought of dogs with multiple Elite Qs running against much lower experienced dogs just doesn't sound so much fun for *me*. My young dog won't care, and, yes, the experience of just being there would be great for her, but for me,  I'm kind of hoping for a more level playing field. Yes, I'm a competitive person who enjoys going to Champs to see dogs who have worked to qualify just to enter. This just seems skewed.....

I could be completely wrong about this - I'm sure Sharon will clarify - but the way I interpreted Sharon's answer about Second Chance was that the dog who had 100 + Elite Regular points, but couldn't get the 20 Chances points, might be able to get into Elite Champs with the 2nd chance entry.  Not that they would get into Pre-Elite Champs, but that not being able to get 20 Chances points might not keep them out of Elite Champs...


 Maybe I just don't get why someone with an Elite dog wouldn't enter Elite????

Kyle
Title: Re: Pre-Elite requrements
Post by: Sharon Nelson on May 07, 2016, 02:35:40 PM
I was almost to the point of understanding why a dog with 100 Elite points *might* be eligible to enter a "Pre" Elite class, but now I really don't understand how a dog, using the "second chance" option with more than 100 points, could be a Pre-Elite dog....?

Kyle

Kyle, they would be a second chance dog in "Elite" not pre-elite.

Sharon
Title: Re: Pre-Elite requrements
Post by: Kyle on May 08, 2016, 05:30:55 AM
I was almost to the point of understanding why a dog with 100 Elite points *might* be eligible to enter a "Pre" Elite class, but now I really don't understand how a dog, using the "second chance" option with more than 100 points, could be a Pre-Elite dog....?

Kyle

Kyle, they would be a second chance dog in "Elite" not pre-elite.

Sharon

Ah! Thank you Marcy and Sharon for clarifying this for me. I was obviously lost....not unusual!  :P

-Kyle
Title: Re: Pre-Elite requrements
Post by: Kyle on May 08, 2016, 06:02:00 AM
Sorry Kyle I can't agree. Agility is NEVER a completely level playing field. What is fair to one person will almost always be unfair to Someone else. My old dog would jump minus 4" if he could take all the drops available to him (skilled, age and breed) but competes against dogs 3 jump heights above that at Champs (imagine 8" dogs competing on equal footing with 20" dogs). I don't care, we've gone twice and had a great time.   A friend's dog, who would benefit from a height drop, has their birthday right after champs. Another might have Their birthday the week before and get that 4" drop. Fair? This year there have been some parameters added to pre-elite--dogs can have "some" elite Qs. I think 100 points is not Unfair--many dogs have 100 without yet being consistently elite level dogs. How would you feel if next year your young dog had 90 elite points after 9 tries and was still eligible?  Or 100 after 30 or 40 tries and wasn't?  Last year Anybody could run in pre-elite. This year the field has been limited. I think That is fairer.  It's Champs.  Go and have fun.
Vicki

Vicki,
Since you asked, I'll tell you the honest truth. If my young dog had 90 Elite points, I, personally, would enter Elite. BUT - that's just me.  :)  I guess it's just that I've always been under the impression that Champs is not anything like a regular weekend trial. It's a special event where the ante is upped, and I like it that way! I agree with you that when jump heights need to be combined at Champs that can make it more difficult on smaller dogs. But I'm not sure that jump heights are the same as levels of training. Kind of thinking that's an "apples vs. oranges" thing in my mind.  :)

You can bet a zillion dollars that I will go to Champs and have a super fun time! I always do, no matter what!  ;D

-Kyle