NADAC Forum

General => General Discussion => Topic started by: Lisa Schmit In The Zone Agility on November 08, 2019, 03:32:26 AM

Title: swap runs ?
Post by: Lisa Schmit In The Zone Agility on November 08, 2019, 03:32:26 AM
Thanks for giving clubs many options for class selection.         It is awesome to give clubs more choices!  In the spirit of giving clubs choices, I am respectfully asking to keep the Swap Option Available.

 My Fridays look like this: Double Run Format- 2 Weavers, 2 Regular and 1 Jumpers , 1 Chances with Swap option.  So a total of 6 classes on Friday but with swap.    Since I am running Double Run Format, it makes doing to swap Jumpers/Chances Run so easy as there is no additional course building- course is set, people have walked and we are go to do our swap runs.   My exhibitors really like the swap run option..as some need more jumpers ...some need more chances.   Exhibitors like the idea of getting 4 tries at Jumpers or Chances in a 3 day weekend.    I realize that now I could offer 4 jumpers OR 4 Chances, but I dont want to choose as some need jumpers, some need chances.  With the Swap Run, people get to choose what they want with no additional work! It is a WIN WIN.

So I am respectfully asking to keep the swap run option available for double run format trials.   
Thank you
Lisa
Title: Re: swap runs ?
Post by: Amanda Nelson on November 08, 2019, 07:08:30 AM
Once Chris gets back, I will chat with him about it!
Thanks!!
Amanda


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Title: Re: swap runs ?
Post by: Janice_Shavor on November 09, 2019, 07:18:37 AM
I am not in my normal traveling distance of Lisa's trials.  But I do appreciate the ability to choose swap runs. 
Title: Re: swap runs ?
Post by: Laura A Henrich on November 09, 2019, 07:48:16 AM
I do run a lot of ITZ trials and I LOVE the swap option!!  Please allow Lisa to keep it and hoping other  trials offer it. Thanks, Laura, Tobi and Barney
Title: Re: swap runs ?
Post by: Amy McGovern on November 09, 2019, 08:24:50 AM
Other trials do offer it and it is great.  I also love the swap option!  We have done it at Lisa's and at fundraisers.

-Amy
Title: Re: swap runs ?
Post by: Amanda Nelson on November 09, 2019, 08:26:30 AM
Because we are opening up so much with the new class listings, we are looking at swap and if we will continue to offer it. I will need to have a meeting with Chris when he is able, so that may not be until late next week. :-)

Thank you for your patience!
Amanda


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Title: Re: swap runs ?
Post by: Lorrie Stelz on November 11, 2019, 03:45:13 AM
I agree.  The swap is a great option.  I rarely am at trials that offer it, but it's awesome when I'm at one that does.  Hope you keep it as an option.   :)
Title: Re: swap runs ?
Post by: JMDATX on November 11, 2019, 04:49:50 AM
Question for Amanda.

We have to get our trial app in this week, otherwise pay higher fees.  We tried the swap option last year and liked it.  If Chris decides to allow clubs to still offer the swap option, can we amend our trial app once he returns with the verdict?

Thanks!

Jan
Title: Re: swap runs ?
Post by: Lindsey Cooper on November 11, 2019, 08:27:55 AM
I would also like to put in my vote to keep the swap option. My Friday classes are similar to Lisa's. Personally I always need regular, so I like the swap option for Friday so those who want chances/jumpers can choose those and those of us who need regular, can choose those. People in our area have gotten really good at filling out their entry forms correctly for swap and it went really well this year!

Thanks! :)
Lindsey
Mountain Dog Sports, LLC
Title: Re: swap runs ?
Post by: Amanda Nelson on November 11, 2019, 08:33:01 AM
Hi Everyone,
    Chris and I chatted briefly and while we understand the reasons some would like to keep swap, with the new class options and opening up huge opportunities to offer way more than clubs have ever been able to, we will not be offering the Swap option for 2020. 

I do understand some clubs will be upset with this, but Chris and I are hoping the positives of the new class listing will outweigh this.

Thank you,

Amanda and Chris


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Title: Re: swap runs ?
Post by: Lindsey Cooper on November 11, 2019, 10:30:57 AM
My trial applications for March, April and October were submitted with the Swap option planned for Friday. Will I need to change things around for those trials now? I have competitors from out of town who were already planning on the swap option for March & April.

Lindsey
Title: Re: swap runs ?
Post by: Linda W. Anderson on November 11, 2019, 11:46:01 AM
As a competitor, I am very sorry to see this option go.  Granted, there are now more options, but with the Swap Option, each individual competitor can choose what runs THEY want/need rather than just  take what the majority seem to want.
Linda
Title: Re: swap runs ?
Post by: MoabDiane on November 11, 2019, 04:16:42 PM
I too will miss the opportunity to "swap" when available.
Since it didn't take any extra trial time, and even with the new options.....oh well.
diane
Title: Re: swap runs ?
Post by: Becky Wolfe on November 11, 2019, 07:01:01 PM
I like the swap option as it allows the competitor to pick what their team needs to work on.  I hope that this is reconsidered even with all the new options out there.
Title: Re: swap runs ?
Post by: Donna & Gracie on November 12, 2019, 12:50:11 AM
Yes, I too loved the swap option. Most of my trial locations are at least 6 hours away so I look for trials that offered the swap. With the travel expenses, it helps to be able to have an extra shot at my weakest class. With all the new options and the new class of gamblers Iím hoping I wonít end up seeing less opportunities to run the class. Anyways thatís just my thoughts on the subject. 😃
Title: Re: swap runs ?
Post by: Sarah Fix on November 12, 2019, 04:48:30 AM
I too am going to miss the opportunities that swap provided and would love to see it continue.  Maybe a vote of competitors would be appropriate??

My other question is - for those of us who have already had our trials approved with the swap for early next year, do we need to change our format?
Title: Re: swap runs ?
Post by: Lisa Schmit In The Zone Agility on November 12, 2019, 04:58:57 AM
 I dont understand why the swap option is going away.    As you can see by the posts above, many exhibitors  (clubs) really like the swap option.     Can you please explain why this is going away?      I honestly cannot think of one reason to stop the swap option.     Just because there are different options for classes is not a reason to do away with the swap option when exhibitors love the swap option and it is so easy to do with no new course builds.   Why cant we have both?

I too have submitted trial applications through June with the thought of doing swap.
Title: Re: swap runs ?
Post by: dogrsqr on November 12, 2019, 05:39:07 AM
I feel that if the swap run remains it should be available for any class that is only offered once in a day.  Iíve never really understood why itís only available for Chances and Jumpers.  All of our dogs are behind in Regular, Weavers and Touch and Go.  We already often skip Jumpers, Tunnelers and Chances when we enter a 3 day trial just to cut down on total number of runs. I almost never enter Hoopers or Barrelers.

Gina Pizzo
Title: Re: swap runs ?
Post by: Cindy Conner on November 12, 2019, 12:05:07 PM
I like the swap option and would like it see it continue. The local competitors attending our trials also like the swap option. Our club offers the swap option on Sunday, day 3 of our double run format trials. It makes for an efficient course building day, folks choose the classes they need and we have been able to have the trial end around 3:00 pm which is great for the folks who have to drive 4 to 6 hours to get home.

Cindy Conner
Title: Re: swap runs ?
Post by: Jean Sather (McCreight) on November 12, 2019, 01:36:23 PM
Agree with others that SWAP seems to have been a popular offering at trials in our area (Montana).  Especially with the cost of runs increasing a bit next year, I would think people who needed one of the SWAP offerings might be inclined to pay for two of those, where we might only receive an entry for one class otherwise ...  Every little bit helps!
Title: Re: swap runs ?
Post by: Chris Nelson on November 15, 2019, 07:08:06 AM
Guys,

I'm not in much of a conversational mood, so we'll just cut to the chase here.

Swap was ONLY brought around because people wanted more opportunities to run Chances.   That's it.   It gave people 4 rounds instead of 3.

With the new class offerings you could offer 2 rounds of Chances every single day, that's 6 rounds over a 3 day trial.   

There is no reason to have swap when that is an option.     

Anyone who has already submitted trial applications or Premiums with Swap can keep them.   You just can't offer it on any new applications going forward
Title: Re: swap runs ?
Post by: dogrsqr on November 15, 2019, 11:38:00 AM
Thanks Chris.  Iím a little worried about how this new system is going to work but weíll wait and see. Take care of family.  All of this can wait.

Gina Pizzo
Title: Re: swap runs ?
Post by: Linda W. Anderson on November 15, 2019, 03:56:43 PM
Just curious - is there any way to actually see how many people used the "swap" option for Jumpers?
Linda
Title: Re: swap runs ?
Post by: Lindsey Cooper on November 16, 2019, 08:10:44 AM
Linda - let's see if I can help with some stats.

I've offered swap at three of my trials this year. I'm definitely one of those people who choose regular and jumpers over chances. :)

Here are total numbers for the Elite runs:

March:
Chances 1: 21
Chances 2: 14
Jumpers 1: 25
Jumpers 2: 16
Regular 1: 21
Regular 2: 10

April:
Chances 1: 25
Chances 2: 23
Jumpers 1: 27
Jumpers 2: 17
Regular 1: 25
Regular 2: 12

October:
Chances 1: 23
Chances 2: 20
Jumpers 1: 24
Jumpers 2: 15
Regular 1: 21
Regular 2: 13

Lindsey
Mountain Dog Sports
Title: Re: swap runs ?
Post by: Chris Nelson on November 17, 2019, 02:44:12 PM
Just a little note for folks.

for 24+ years, NADAC never had swap.    Folks seemed to do pretty good for two plus decades with that.

The new format is allowing clubs WAY more options with offering classes, so I really don't feel too bad if we're being honest.
Title: Re: swap runs ?
Post by: BeckyAH on November 17, 2019, 04:48:35 PM
Just a little note for folks.

for 24+ years, NADAC never had swap.    Folks seemed to do pretty good for two plus decades with that.

The new format is allowing clubs WAY more options with offering classes, so I really don't feel too bad if we're being honest.

Keep not feeling bad.

Change is hard.  I dislike it.   I get it.

We'll  all get over it and our psychology is not your issue.
Title: Re: swap runs ?
Post by: Margaret MacEwen on November 17, 2019, 04:54:04 PM
I also like the swap option, I don't see a downside. 

Title: Re: swap runs ?
Post by: KarissaKS on November 18, 2019, 11:41:27 AM
Many moons ago, before the double-run concept came about, competitors were guaranteed to have 2 Regular, 1 Jumpers, and 1 Chances each day (save for games-only trials, at least). This meant that regardless of how many days of a trial you entered, you'd at least have a shot at your core NATCH classes. Now that the double run format is so popular, it's pretty common (at least in my area) to see a schedule similar to:

Friday: Regular (2), Chances (1), Jumpers (1), random games
Saturday: Regular (2), Chances (2), random games
Sunday: Regular (2), Jumpers (2), random games

If I was only able to attend the trial on Friday and Saturday, I would only have one shot at a Jumpers Q. If I consistently am unable to show on a Sunday then I will quickly become deficient in Jumpers Qs just based on limited availability. The swap option is appreciated because it lets people enter the runs they need.

I get that there is a lot of flexibility now, but it is still unlikely that trials are going to be able to offer classes that will make everyone happy when using the double run format. For example, a recent Facebook post asking what class people thought was the most fun resulted in one club proclaiming that they would offer Tunnelers 6 times in a weekend. Some people might think that's the most awesome thing ever, but I see that and go, "ugh, I'll pass."

I've never liked the double run format and this sort of thing is just one more negative against it. I wish Regular, Jumpers, and Chances still had to be offered every day of a trial.
Title: Re: swap runs ?
Post by: dogrsqr on November 18, 2019, 04:35:24 PM
Clubs donít have to hold double run trials.  Traditional or mixed format are still available and Iím guessing that the mixed format might be offered more. 

My concern is also that clubs will start offering the classes they think people need or those that are most popular.  Only time will tell and hopefully they will be responsive to comments from all exhibitors.  Our club really doesnít plan on changing what weíve been doing which is to offer the core NATCH classes and then try to offer the same number of other classes throughout our 3 trial year.

Gina Pizzo
Title: Re: swap runs ?
Post by: Lorrie Stelz on November 18, 2019, 05:00:43 PM
At the few trials I was at, Swap took only a couple of extra minutes.  There were just a handful of us that did it.  But, it was greatly appreciated by us.  I'm one of the people that need Jumpers and Reg.  Although I LOVE competing in Chances, we usually have enough, so with my old boy, I'd swap out for an extra Jumpers. 

I wish it could go to a vote, but I accept whatever you decide, Chris.  :)
Title: Re: swap runs ?
Post by: Linda W. Anderson on November 18, 2019, 05:33:18 PM
Just got Two's first NATCH thanks to the Swap option.
Linda
Title: Re: swap runs ?
Post by: Amanda Nelson on November 18, 2019, 06:33:37 PM
Chris and I are listening to everyoneís comments in regards to swap and we are considering everything. Right now we are sticking with our decision that swap will not be offered going forward.

Just as a note to some of the comments about not being able to have ďenoughĒ of the core classes, clubs can offer 2 regular, and 1 chances, and 1 jumpers every day, they can also mix double run with single run format, something that has not been allowed. Doing this everyday gives all exhibitors 6 regular, 3 jumpers, and 3 chances every weekend.  (For the ďcoreĒ classes)

From a NADAC standpoint and what we see on our end, exhibitors need to communicate in a positive way to clubs what they would like to see at trials, and yes i know we canít make everyone happy. :-)

And clubs needs to listen, more often than not i see clubs offering what their core members, or president wants, not so much what the masses want.....

I know that change is hard, and I do understand why you are upset to see swap go.

NADAC is listening and we continue to listen and do the best we can by our competitors. Letís give the new class listing a positive try for the new year!

Thanks!
Amanda


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Title: Re: swap runs ?
Post by: dogrsqr on November 18, 2019, 09:46:35 PM
Karissa in the past we have had some exhibitors asking to offer different classes on different days so we try to.  We also try to offer them in different orders ie Jumpers sometimes early and sometimes late.  Sometimes things get ordered to make loading/tear down easier ie emptying tunnel bags early.  We always try to run an efficient trial.

Gina Pizzo