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41
General Discussion / Re: Double run thought?
« Last post by BeckyAH on November 22, 2019, 01:21:31 PM »
But also my fun factor/value matters, and there really is a limit to how many times I can see that same course and care to run it. And it's fewer than 6.   Bored probably isn't the right word, but even with variation in dogs it just becomes 'done'. Either I'm getting it, and cool, don't need to repeatedly do it - or I'm not and I REALLY need to train it, rather than stress my dogs out more.

I *don't* dislike double runs, and use them quite a bit (especially in chances) and support my clubs doing what works for them.

But I'm likely to spend less/run less on a double run trial than not, because of how I select my entries.
42
General Discussion / Re: Double run thought?
« Last post by BeckyAH on November 22, 2019, 01:18:01 PM »
I have a set amount of money that I spend at a trial so 7 or 8 runs wouldn't matter to me at all.  This weekend I am running 4 dogs in both TNG and tunnelers.   I guess because all of my dogs run differently, it doesn't get boring because I have to figure a way to run all 4 of them.  What IS tough is ONE walk through for all 4 dogs because I DO have to figure out what I am doing with each of them in the limited amount of time.  And then switching my mindset between dogs and remembering which dog I am running....

Time is also a big, big, factor in why I don't like running all 3 dogs in one double format class - at least anywhere there aren't separate walk through.

Part of it is having time to come up with appropriate strategy, but some of it's also just plain' fair to do the dog' issues.  I tried all 3 of mine in T'n'G.   EVEN WITH them in different height classes,  and levels, being that it was a small trial and there was a single walk through, so they got pulled,  had time to pee (barely) and then hit the course.

Some dogs do fine with that.

Mine need a little more to figure out where they are, what we're doing and to connect with me.

That one isn't a double run format issue though, except in as much as this entire too hurried process would then be repeated.

Which would jack them up higher.

Not an issue later in the day, but first one? Yeahno. Not for me and mine.

43
General Discussion / Re: Double run thought?
« Last post by Amy McGovern on November 22, 2019, 11:48:32 AM »
The big deal is the extra time a getting people to work. I run 3 dogs on the same course, and often a 4th never gets boring because i am staying in the moment with the dog, and each dogs handles differently.

Try running them differently each time, add more distance, run silently there lots of ways to keep the mind active and engaged.

I am NEVER bored with agility (okay maybe here and there - but it's rare)

Agreed!  I used to run 3, currently have 1-2 (depending on if my son is at the show too) and they are all different.  I don't get bored!  In fact, I find myself more annoyed at myself sometimes for running the course with dog 1 the way that I need to run it for dog 2 (they are very different!).  So I work to challenge myself for both of them!  And now with a puppy coming, we get challenges in a whole new way again!
44
General Discussion / Re: Double run thought?
« Last post by Anne Etherton on November 22, 2019, 11:08:34 AM »
I really appreciate double run format in chances.  I can figure out how to make it work the second time frequently.  I run two dogs who are in different levels and are just different.  I can't remember being bored ever.

Anne
45
General Discussion / Re: Double run thought?
« Last post by Audri, Cee Cee, Lily, Toto, and Calypso on November 22, 2019, 09:00:21 AM »
I have a set amount of money that I spend at a trial so 7 or 8 runs wouldn't matter to me at all.  This weekend I am running 4 dogs in both TNG and tunnelers.   I guess because all of my dogs run differently, it doesn't get boring because I have to figure a way to run all 4 of them.  What IS tough is ONE walk through for all 4 dogs because I DO have to figure out what I am doing with each of them in the limited amount of time.  And then switching my mindset between dogs and remembering which dog I am running.... 
46
General Discussion / Re: Double run thought?
« Last post by RobertStewart on November 22, 2019, 07:18:53 AM »
What's the big deal about extra walk throughs? Our trials are so small that we all get done by 4pm in standard format with extra builds and walk throughs. I don't understand why everyone wants to rush to be done - in the old days trials wouldn't end till 8pm sometimes and that was with 4 events a day. 

regarding - angles - yes I understand that - that is why I said tweaking - courses can be tweaked very quickly and many courses lend themselves to a nice reversal - and if judges are designing their own courses why can't they design something that can be reversed ?

I personally am very bored running the same course 4x (2dogs)

The big deal is the extra time a getting people to work. I run 3 dogs on the same course, and often a 4th never gets boring because i am staying in the moment with the dog, and each dogs handles differently.

Try running them differently each time, add more distance, run silently there lots of ways to keep the mind active and engaged.

I am NEVER bored with agility (okay maybe here and there - but it's rare)


47
General Discussion / Re: Double run thought?
« Last post by mephalon on November 22, 2019, 06:14:18 AM »
I do sign up for the runs I want to do.

But with 3 dogs, I very often do not feel like doing the same touch and go course 6 times.   So 1 or more of my dogs doesn't run it, or I just do one round.    I also find if I want to run my vet dog in both elite jumpers  runs in a beta trial, I'm going to NOT enter her in something else (probably regular), because that's a big ask of her  energy, speed, and impact wise on a single day, back to back so I have to cut some things.  1 round + other stuff, with most being non jumping or shorter courses  is also fine.

Then there's what happens if classes I need at a given time have both runs on Saturday - I enter Saturday and skip Sunday (or whatever).

It isn't just about how much money I'm willing/able to spend.

And I think most people make similar decisions.

(I'm not weighing in on anything beyond that -  Bottom lines do change based on  format, because money isn't the only consideration/limit)
[/quote]

Completely agree with this-  I am fortunate that my bottom line is not an absolute- it depends on class order,  format and classes.   I rarely enter the last class of the day (even if I am camping at the trial site)- if it is double run technically I am not entering the last TWO classes of the day which equals less $$$ to the trial host.   
48
General Discussion / Re: Double run thought?
« Last post by Ed and Dino on November 21, 2019, 04:33:23 PM »
"The standard format option is available and if trials are small the extra course builds shouldn't cause a problem."

True but only being able to offer 7 classes could cause a problem in the bottom line....

I'm not sure that would be true, I sign up for the number of classes I want to do. If you are doing Standard format with 7 runs and I'm only doing 6 classes, I didn't change your bottom line at that trial.

Double run of 8 and I'm doing 6 is the same amount of money from me.

I'd like to know how many people really sign up for every class at every trial, I doubt universally everyone signs up for every class, that adds up to a lot of moola for all those attending. I choose what I want to do and Pay.

Couple of things -

1)Yes the difference between 7 & 8 runs does change the bottom line - it did for me in October - I offered 8 runs saturday and 7 on sunday and as you know (bc you were there)  my trial was in the red - had I offered the 8th class on sunday I would have covered my costs. I would not have profited too much but I would have covered my costs - as it was I had to pay my trial insurance (which is quite expensive) out of my own pocket and all the hospitality - work raffle, nq raffle and worker snacks (outside of what was donated) - I have no money right now to buy ribbons for 2020 bc my last trial lost $$ - I will have to buy them myself.  The 8th run would have eased that burden to my personal account.

2) when its NOT double run - I generally enter every event for both of my dogs - if it IS double run I do not always enter every run for both dogs. I don't make the choices based on money - I make those choices based on what is best for my dogs at the time.

I had only signed up for 6 runs on Sunday at your trial, so once again I would not have helped your profitability since I was only doing 6 runs. Belle also was only doing 6 classes on Sunday.

For me (one intro dog) I am not signing up for every run at an 8 run standard or mixed format trial at this point in Tres' development.

I feel bad you lost money, I love your site and your trial but I think this means you need to raise your entry fees, you can't be losing money.

I realize there is money curve but if you don't go profitable then you stop running your trials.
If you raise entry fees and lose too many entrants then I guess you stop running trials.

If you raise entry fees and go profitable - Great!
49
General Discussion / Re: Double run thought?
« Last post by BeckyAH on November 21, 2019, 02:38:11 PM »
"The standard format option is available and if trials are small the extra course builds shouldn't cause a problem."

True but only being able to offer 7 classes could cause a problem in the bottom line....

I'm not sure that would be true, I sign up for the number of classes I want to do. If you are doing Standard format with 7 runs and I'm only doing 6 classes, I didn't change your bottom line at that trial.

Double run of 8 and I'm doing 6 is the same amount of money from me.

I'd like to know how many people really sign up for every class at every trial, I doubt universally everyone signs up for every class, that adds up to a lot of moola for all those attending. I choose what I want to do and Pay.

I do sign up for the runs I want to do.

But with 3 dogs, I very often do not feel like doing the same touch and go course 6 times.   So 1 or more of my dogs doesn't run it, or I just do one round.    I also find if I want to run my vet dog in both elite jumpers  runs in a beta trial, I'm going to NOT enter her in something else (probably regular), because that's a big ask of her  energy, speed, and impact wise on a single day, back to back so I have to cut some things.  1 round + other stuff, with most being non jumping or shorter courses  is also fine.

Then there's what happens if classes I need at a given time have both runs on Saturday - I enter Saturday and skip Sunday (or whatever).

It isn't just about how much money I'm willing/able to spend.

And I think most people make similar decisions.

(I'm not weighing in on anything beyond that -  Bottom lines do change based on  format, because money isn't the only consideration/limit)
50
General Discussion / Re: Double run thought?
« Last post by Maureen deHaan on November 21, 2019, 02:10:44 PM »
"The standard format option is available and if trials are small the extra course builds shouldn't cause a problem."

True but only being able to offer 7 classes could cause a problem in the bottom line....

I'm not sure that would be true, I sign up for the number of classes I want to do. If you are doing Standard format with 7 runs and I'm only doing 6 classes, I didn't change your bottom line at that trial.

Double run of 8 and I'm doing 6 is the same amount of money from me.

I'd like to know how many people really sign up for every class at every trial, I doubt universally everyone signs up for every class, that adds up to a lot of moola for all those attending. I choose what I want to do and Pay.

Couple of things -

1)Yes the difference between 7 & 8 runs does change the bottom line - it did for me in October - I offered 8 runs saturday and 7 on sunday and as you know (bc you were there)  my trial was in the red - had I offered the 8th class on sunday I would have covered my costs. I would not have profited too much but I would have covered my costs - as it was I had to pay my trial insurance (which is quite expensive) out of my own pocket and all the hospitality - work raffle, nq raffle and worker snacks (outside of what was donated) - I have no money right now to buy ribbons for 2020 bc my last trial lost $$ - I will have to buy them myself.  The 8th run would have eased that burden to my personal account.

2) when its NOT double run - I generally enter every event for both of my dogs - if it IS double run I do not always enter every run for both dogs. I don't make the choices based on money - I make those choices based on what is best for my dogs at the time.
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