Author Topic: 4" Vet Dogs at Champs  (Read 1009 times)

Dev Sperber, Jake, Lil, and Takoda

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4" Vet Dogs at Champs
« on: June 28, 2016, 07:24:17 AM »
As a handler of a 10" Australian Terrier who turned 7 this year, we will now be competing against a greater size range of dogs at Champs, including Vet dogs measuring 14".   A dog measuring 14" is 140% the size of a dog measuring 10".  A well-trained, confident 14" dog takes far fewer strides than well-trained confident 10" dog, which equates to faster course times.  Stating the obvious here... if a 10" and 14" dog run equally well, the 14" dog will place much higher due to longer stride length/ faster YPS.

If I understand the rules correctly a Vet dog measuring under 11" could be competing against a Vet dog measuring under 18", jumping 8" with a Vet handler.   A class that combines 7+ year old dogs with as great as a 180% size difference seems "not very level" to me.  :)

It would be awesome if there were enough Vet dogs measuring 11" or under to have their own 4" class at Champs.  Has this ever happened?

My purpose in posting this is to see if there might be a way to level the playing field a bit for this unique group of Vet dogs (11" and under) who are already jumping 4" and thus have no jump height to drop down to...to avoid being grouped with larger Vet dogs (14" and under) jumping 8".

One thought would be to offer handlers of this unique group of Vet dogs (under 11") the option to compete in the Regular 4" / 8" class so they'd be running against younger dogs their dogs size vs. running against Vet dogs up to 14" tall.  Heck, this might even make the 4" class large enough to not have to group it with the 8" class.   

Dogs measuring 11" and under are unique in that they are already at the lowest jump height.  The older these small dogs get, the greater the size range of dogs they compete against.   For me personally, I'd like to have the option to compete against younger dogs closer to my dogs size rather than larger dogs closer to my dogs age.  :)

Dev and Lil

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Sharon Nelson

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Re: 4" Vet Dogs at Champs
« Reply #1 on: June 28, 2016, 08:56:15 AM »
Yes, we have had several years when the entries allowed for the 4" dogs to be separate.  If the entry numbers are there this year, it will be split again.

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KarissaKS

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Re: 4" Vet Dogs at Champs
« Reply #2 on: June 28, 2016, 10:04:24 AM »
I think one issue is that Proficient and Skilled dogs run together at Champs. That means that your <11" dog running as a 4" Veteran is also in the same class as my 13.88" (AKC height card ;) ) dog running 4" as a Skilled Veteran (note, Kaiser is not going to Utah, but this was his division last year in Springfield). I will not disagree that my dog at the top of the height range is at a distinct advantage over a dog of smaller stature, especially running in dirt. I'm not sure how you would resolve this aside from having a "micro mini" division, of which I'm not sure there are enough dogs to warrant such a split. We did have a completely separate 4" Veteran class last year, though, which I thought was super -- mostly because my complaint could also be that my 12" dog would have been running against 16" Skilled Vets in the 8" class.

One thought I've always had with regard to Champs scoring/placements would be to score dogs into their measured height class regardless of what height they run. You could still separate them as Vet/Non-Vet, but in that scenario Kaiser would have been judged with the (true) 12" Veteran dogs instead of 4". This would also help the scenario of the true 16" dogs who are lumped in with all of the 20+ dogs running 16" Skilled. Score all 20+ dogs together regardless of height. Score 16" dogs together, etc. I feel like that would remove a lot of the "unfair" complaints that generate from being scored with dogs much larger or smaller. I think TDAA has taken on this scoring model at their national events, but having never attended I probably shouldn't speak for them.
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Sharon Nelson

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Re: 4" Vet Dogs at Champs
« Reply #3 on: June 28, 2016, 01:50:11 PM »
We will be doing everything we can be make all of the divisions equitable!!

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Amy McGovern

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Re: 4" Vet Dogs at Champs
« Reply #4 on: June 28, 2016, 02:03:16 PM »
One thought I've always had with regard to Champs scoring/placements would be to score dogs into their measured height class regardless of what height they run. You could still separate them as Vet/Non-Vet, but in that scenario Kaiser would have been judged with the (true) 12" Veteran dogs instead of 4". This would also help the scenario of the true 16" dogs who are lumped in with all of the 20+ dogs running 16" Skilled. Score all 20+ dogs together regardless of height. Score 16" dogs together, etc. I feel like that would remove a lot of the "unfair" complaints that generate from being scored with dogs much larger or smaller. I think TDAA has taken on this scoring model at their national events, but having never attended I probably shouldn't speak for them.

That is how TDAA is scoring at trials and at their national event (we have been).  My girls are both scored in the 12" height but neither jumps 12.  In fact my older dog jumps 4" as she does in NADAC and my middle and baby dog jump 8" and all are scored in 12".

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Dev Sperber, Jake, Lil, and Takoda

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Re: 4" Vet Dogs at Champs
« Reply #5 on: June 28, 2016, 02:52:07 PM »
Sharon, I know you will give it your best effort.   It would be awesome to have enough 4" Vet dogs at Champs to have their own class.  Fingers are crossed!   Dev
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Sharon Nelson

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Re: 4" Vet Dogs at Champs
« Reply #6 on: July 02, 2016, 03:11:48 PM »
We have a large small dog entry this year, so I doubt that there will be worries about splits.  The owners of small dogs are coming in good numbers!!

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Dev Sperber, Jake, Lil, and Takoda

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Re: 4" Vet Dogs at Champs
« Reply #7 on: July 02, 2016, 03:32:00 PM »
Oh Yey!  Lil's Champs entry should have arrived already.. or will be arriving any day.      Dev
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Sharon Nelson

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Re: 4" Vet Dogs at Champs
« Reply #8 on: July 02, 2016, 06:33:46 PM »
Oh Yey!  Lil's Champs entry should have arrived already.. or will be arriving any day.      Dev

It came today.  Small dog entries look great!

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cheyaut

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Re: 4" Vet Dogs at Champs
« Reply #9 on: July 02, 2016, 11:02:34 PM »
I don't run a small dog (YET! My tiny 11" Squirrel! will eventually be there hehe) but I'm happy to hear the small dog numbers are good!
Jessi Zamboni

Re: 4" Vet Dogs at Champs
« Reply #10 on: July 05, 2016, 10:20:27 AM »
Very happy to hear that the small dog entries are up this time, especially the 4"!   ;D ;D

Paulette
« Last Edit: July 05, 2016, 10:23:38 AM by Paulette Couture »
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