Author Topic: Championships courses  (Read 22908 times)

Marcy Matties

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Re: Championships courses
« Reply #60 on: August 13, 2016, 03:21:09 PM »
...  I do have a few things that might be considered to try to make everyone happy (that may not be possible).
1. If the circle is set up only have regular and pre elite go through it once so if it is faulted it is just one fault and the weekend isn't ruined. Then rhe stakes classes could go through it multiple times and show us how to do it.
2. In regular and pre elite use a distance line instead of the gates/xpens. Then it is still the same skill but not the fear of seeing the gates there. Then again stakes classes can have the gates.
3. Have no gates but the same set up of a circle so they handlers can choose to go into the circle of gates.


Though suggestion #2 might sound like a good option to someone that's never done the circle before (and I've only done it 2 times - 1 course Double runs in Tennessee) - I think it would be much harder to NOT have the x-pens.  They are kind of like a "moat" that keeps the dogs inside the circle as you are directing them to the next proper hoop that they are to take.  It's like they don't even think of NOT taking that hoop because it's what's in front of them (if you're handling correctly), and there's no other way out.  Taking the x-pens away would bring an off course into play way more than if they are there.  The x-pens are kind of like those bumper things they put on bowling alleys for the bowling challenged ...  lol

Also, while I completely understand the panic from those that have never seen it - and I'd feel the same way if not for Tennessee - the circle is waaaayyyyyy scarier on paper than it is in person. My two cents - with change left over.
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Team Twodog

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Re: Championships courses
« Reply #61 on: August 13, 2016, 03:21:28 PM »
The most important thing I have learned about handling is if you draw the path the dog will follow it. As Sharon said, the hoop circle is really just six hoops, and you can practice it that way. The xpens are not obstacles for the dog, only the handler. If it helps you to see the circle, you can use flagging on the ground to mark where the xpens would be, just like a Chances line. 

I don't have an opinion on whether this feature should appear in Champs courses, but I love this class and would love to see it in more regular trials.

Kim & Taiko
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Rosemary

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Re: Championships courses
« Reply #62 on: August 13, 2016, 03:28:18 PM »
I do not often get the chance to do extreme hoppers, but have done it.  I really had fun with it.  My dog with the worst distance skills actually did the best.  I was so shocked I forgot to run! 

If you always do the same thing every day then life can get boring.  Embrace new challenges and surprise yourself.

Linda W. Anderson

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Re: Championships courses
« Reply #63 on: August 13, 2016, 03:38:15 PM »
Here is a sample of a hoop circle course that would be used at championships.

Sharon
Could you please show where the Stakes lines might be on this course?
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Sharon Nelson

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Re: Championships courses
« Reply #64 on: August 13, 2016, 04:09:40 PM »

Though suggestion #2 might sound like a good option to someone that's never done the circle before (and I've only done it 2 times - 1 course Double runs in Tennessee) - I think it would be much harder to NOT have the x-pens.  They are kind of like a "moat" that keeps the dogs inside the circle as you are directing them to the next proper hoop that they are to take.  It's like they don't even think of NOT taking that hoop because it's what's in front of them (if you're handling correctly), and there's no other way out.  Taking the x-pens away would bring an off course into play way more than if they are there.  The x-pens are kind of like those bumper things they put on bowling alleys for the bowling challenged ...  lol

Also, while I completely understand the panic from those that have never seen it - and I'd feel the same way if not for Tennessee - the circle is waaaayyyyyy scarier on paper than it is in person. My two cents - with change left over.

So true!  The x-pens keep the dog going in the right direction!!  They make it easier, not tougher....... but more difficult if the dog could come across a line on the ground and much more panic from the handlers.  For handlers it is nice to know that the "moat" keeps them there!   And I need those bumpers in bowling!!

Sharon
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Rosemary

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Re: Championships courses
« Reply #65 on: August 13, 2016, 04:23:42 PM »
Here is a sample of a hoop circle course that would be used at championships.

Sharon
This looks like a lot of fun!  The gates/x-pens actually make the circle much easier.

carriekinnear

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Re: Championships courses, hoops circle at Champs
« Reply #66 on: August 13, 2016, 04:45:03 PM »
Thanks for posting the sample hoops circle.  I have NEVER seen it at any trial I've entered, much less done one.  I'll be scrambling between now and Champs to try it and hopefully learn the handling required.  Just when I thought I was prepared for Champs....... Keeps life interesting, I guess.

knittingdog

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Re: Championships courses
« Reply #67 on: August 13, 2016, 04:52:18 PM »

So if I understand the course maps correctly,  I would need 6 opens to set up the hoop circle?  Just want to make sure I understand what is going on here.

Thanks!

Robin


Jeanne Allen

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Re: Championships courses
« Reply #68 on: August 13, 2016, 04:54:16 PM »
OMG!  Not looking at this list for a day and I come back to this!!!

So I get the feelings from both sides of the camp on this one. 

First I will say, I only do NADAC and I am willing to travel to go to NADAC trial.  I have seen X-Hoopers, but it seems over the last year or two, it is disappearing from the trials that used to have it.  Now as far as my own club, I have tried to get them to offer X-Hoopers, but it is amazing the push-back that I get.  I often wonder why there even is a NADAC club in my city.  But there are enough of us NADAC supporters to keep NADAC alive in my town, but still having issues in the club wanting to offer the extreme classes.  I know one of the issues is that we also do USDAA and our one and only equipment trailer is filled to the brim with equipment from both venues, so no room to add equipment, even the x-pens.  Thankfully enough of us have said we need two equipment trailers, but who know when it will become a reality.

As far as the classes at Champs, I have been to enough of them that I expect that there will be something different in the course that we normal do  not see on a regular weekend trial.  I may be in the minority, but I agree with Sharon that Champs should be different from a normal weekend.  If Champs is going to be just like a normal weekend, they why even have Champs at all?

One thing that Sharon said is making me even more excited about coming to Champs.  She said something about challenging ourselves and our team work with our dogs.  For about the last month I have been asking myself, why oh why did I enter Jester in Champs?  Even though he is in Open in some classes and in Elite in one class, he is in mostly Novice and I still consider him a Novice dog.  Before this post, I was going with the attitude that we would do our best, and if we happen to come in dead last, then that would be OK.  One thing that I have started doing, even before seeing this post, is work him on 12 weave poles, since I only have him in Novice Regular and Weavers and they only have 6 poles.  Now after this post, I will take the attitude of lets see what we can do on these courses at Champs, and where we fail, I know that is a hole in my training that I will need to work on.

Champs here we COME!

Jeanne Allen and the Blue Dogs Gypsy and Jester
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Sharon Nelson

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Re: Championships courses, hoops circle at Champs
« Reply #69 on: August 13, 2016, 05:31:34 PM »
Thanks for posting the sample hoops circle.  I have NEVER seen it at any trial I've entered, much less done one.  I'll be scrambling between now and Champs to try it and hopefully learn the handling required.  Just when I thought I was prepared for Champs....... Keeps life interesting, I guess.

You qualified for champs, you have the skills needed.  Show/tell the dog where to go and they will go there!  I have seen so many dogs do X-Hoopers for the first time and are perfect!  Shocks the handlers, but for the dogs it is just going through hoops at the handlers direction!

Sharon
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Sharon Nelson

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Re: Championships courses
« Reply #70 on: August 13, 2016, 05:32:47 PM »

Also, while I completely understand the panic from those that have never seen it - and I'd feel the same way if not for Tennessee - the circle is waaaayyyyyy scarier on paper than it is in person. My two cents - with change left over.

Yep, that would be championships 6 years ago..............

Sharon
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Sharon Nelson

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Re: Championships courses
« Reply #71 on: August 13, 2016, 05:34:17 PM »

So if I understand the course maps correctly,  I would need 6 opens to set up the hoop circle?  Just want to make sure I understand what is going on here.

Thanks!

Robin

Yep, 6 hoops.  4 set in an "X" pattern and one on each side for the side wings.  Practice not going past the wing hoops.

With 6 hoops, anyone can practice.

Sharon
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Lorrie Stelz

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Re: Championships courses
« Reply #72 on: August 13, 2016, 05:40:14 PM »
I agree with Salli. I think some of us enjoy new challenges. But, most of us in my region have never laid eyes on this Xtreme Hoopers course. It's unsettling being in front of hundreds of people trying to perform 110 percent when your trials never offer it. Do I think we can do OK in it?  Probably. Unfortunately, the Hoopers course knocked my dog out of the finals back in 2011. Last time, I had one day to teach my dogs Barrels with hoops. We did ok in it at Champs. But, it's horrible seeing these courses for the first time THERE. Maybe weigh the results less in that class. I trial up to 18 weekends a year in 7 states and drive as far as 600 miles ONE WAY fir a weekend trial and have never seen this course. It's frustrating.
I also agree that this change being required for NATCHs will cause more in my area to lose interest. I think it fits great as an All-Around NATCH. I started running my 2 dogs in one if the only trials that even offers Barrelers in my area. 8 runs a day is ok for my young boy. But, I made a decision in May not to run my old boy in it anymore if it's a part of an 8 run day. It's just too much for him.
I'm still coming to Champs and can't wait. It's my big vacation if the year. I just think some of us in a big region are at a disadvantage running an actual XTreme Hoopers course for the very first time on the big stage.
Lorrie Stelz

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KarissaKS

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Re: Championships courses
« Reply #73 on: August 13, 2016, 05:43:48 PM »
My concern is the way that Champs is scored overall. If a team struggles, this particular "test" could completely wipe them from the standings. I'll use my dog Secret as an example. She has a NATCH, but she really doesn't enjoy working at a distance. She also gets frustrated and will bark at me if she doesn't like my handling.

Using the course that Sharon posted, one scenario I can envision would be going into the circle at hoop 18 and coming out at 6 instead of going across the circle to 19. That's 10 faults. Then I'd have to send her back through 6 and up to 19, but maybe she gets sassy with me because she thinks I'm stupid for screwing her up. So she stands and barks at me for 5 seconds. I cannot physically cross into the circle as I could in any other class that I might screw up the distance challenge (to take 5 faults), so maybe I waste some more time trying to get her up to 19. Perhaps 10 seconds go by when I finally say "screw it" and go on -- Due to the obstacle restrictions, I cannot complete 19 or 20, amassing 40 faults. I have just earned 50 faults and an untold number of seconds due to the restriction of these gates -- whereas if it was a line restriction I could have perhaps opted for an automatic 10 point fault with no time wasted, perhaps just a 5 point fault if I needed to step in to redirect, or at most 15 faults if she went off course and I needed to step in to fix it. I could have been in 1st place in the standings and dropped to the bottom from one class.

That is my problem with this being at Champs, with the way that Champs is scored. There is no way to recover from some of the ways that things could "go wrong" with this sequence. If you bomb a gate circle at a regular trial, who cares -- you don't Q. At Champs it could be the difference between finals or no finals, overall placements or no overall placements. Just saying.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2016, 05:45:56 PM by KarissaKS »
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Lorrie Stelz

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Re: Championships courses
« Reply #74 on: August 13, 2016, 05:55:50 PM »
I only have 2 X pens and no gates. So the best I can even train would be with 2 hoops before Champs. Nothing close to what this challenge is. I would love to try this at a regular trial. Just nervous as Karissa said-- it would be frustrating rocking all of your other runs and thuis one blowing your chances for finals. Oh well. We will survive. Just adding my 2 cents.
Also, one more thought-- if you add this class to a NATCH (and I'm not excited about this change), I think some other class needs to be eliminated from NATCH/VersNATCH requirements. Clubs that only hold 2 day trials will have a hard time offering all these. And, running all these classes is already costly, without adding more. 😔 Not to mention more equipment for clubs to purchase when the clubs in my area barely make enough to cover trial costs.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2016, 05:58:29 PM by Lorrie Stelz »
Lorrie Stelz

Kaiden: NATCH 10, VersNATCH 8 Tartan Bay More Than Meets The Eye MX MXJ MXF O-HP-E XBR-E IT HIC HOF
Tripp: NATCH 4, VersNATCH 3, All Around NATCH BB's Embrace The Journey HIT HIC HOF
& ret. Chaney: NATCH 8 VersNATCH 5 Wildblue Enchanted MX MXJ MJB MXF S-HP-E HOF