Author Topic: Championships courses  (Read 22740 times)

JimmyS.

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Re: Championships courses
« Reply #135 on: August 16, 2016, 11:28:18 AM »


We have had the gate circle set up at a trial, alone or as part of a regular course

Alot of people have never seen a hoop circle at all, so you guys are VERY fortunate to have seen it in X-hoopers AND in a regular course like what champs is suppose to have!


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Re: Championships courses
« Reply #136 on: August 16, 2016, 11:41:59 AM »
I do think that you are being unfair to me by showing such negativity for something you have never tried.  If you work the tests being asked for........ a pinwheel without the handler next to them, a pinwheel without the handler next to them and a pass between two hoops............ if you set up those tests and your dog can't do them, then yes, you can blame it on a hoop circle that you have issues.  If you can set up those three simple tests and perfect those, then you could have some trust in your own handling and training and know that you are going to hammer those tests!



Sharon:

As I said, I have done X-hoopers with all buy my beagle, a few times over the last 2 years since it was offered and I wanted to see what it was all about.  And I am scheduled to run it in a few weeks at a trial. 

Dog #1, just didn't like it.  But that is not surprising, she doesn't like hoops in general.  She can do it, but does she have fun?  No, she doesn't, so why bother spending the money on a course that she doesn't really have fun on or why even put her in something she doesn't enjoy?  I do the same for tunnelers.  She doesn't care for it, so I generally don't run her in it.  If we had to do a hoopers class, I much preferred the strategic hoopers with her.  I know, I am in the MINORITY on that one.  That being said, she is a better distance dog and seeks out obstacles so for her, she did OK the few times she ran it.   

Dog #2 is my little dog.  He has run it a few times over the last 2 years.  Was he successful at the Novice level?  Yes, eventually, sometimes.  Does he have fun doing it?  Nope, not really.  He gets frustrated by the gates because he can't see me and the fact that I can't really step in to help him at all.  (I have never run it with expens.)  The first time he ran it, he ended up in the middle like a whirling dervish barking and not knowing where to go (he had to go across the the back end of the circle and he couldn't feel the pressure to keep going because of the gates blocking his vision of me) and I couldn't go in to help him out.  I was finally able to get him to come out to me, but he was freaked out.  That being said, he loves regular hoopers class.  But there is no distraction of the gates and if he turns in, I can take a step and help him out if necessary and he can see me.  Personally, he LOVED the old barrelers style course of EGC the best.  He likes the new one too so I run that with him at times, if it is offered and depending on availbility of funds at that time. 

I have run regular hoopers with my beagle and she didn't do well. Her head would EXPLODE in Xhoopers!  I have enough issues keeping her on course without adding a great little scratch and sniff area for her....   :P  Not to mention that I do limited runs with her for financial reasons and her age (10.5) and she much prefers TNG and tunnelers.  With her, the variety of equipment keeps her on course more because the verbal cues given to her.  If I just keep saying "hoop", 'hoop" with her, she can (and wil) take any hoop that her head happens to see at the time.  There is not really drawing a path with her because at any one time, her nose could take over and she doesn't see me. If I talk to her and tell her the next obstacle, she pays far better attention. 

Dog #4 is a puppy.  She is training on hoops in my basement and my small back yard but I have no gates and where I train doesn't have gates or hoops so we will see where she ends up with all of this.  She has a bit more forward drive so she might do well. Only time will tell with her. 

My main issue with it at Champs is because we don't see this course here in the midwest.  We can certainly train it, if we can find a trainer, or a space and the equipement to do it, but it is not like a trial.  And that puts those people at a disadvantage.  The analogy of the weaves, or contacts is not really accurate only because you see those at every trial and regardless of who you train with, they all use that equipment.  It may be slatted or tallker, but it is basically the same equipment.  You also have the abiltiy to work on them at trials.  One of my dogs is a great weaver, but not a great contact dog, am I at a disadvantage in the contact round?  Heck yes, but I see contacts at every trial and I train those contacts at every trial. 

Unfortunately, a lot comes down to money with me.  I have limited funds and I mostly run the classes that my dogs love to run.  After all, I am the one asking them to do this, so if there are courses they don't particularly have fun in, then I don't generally run them. 
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Sharon Nelson

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Re: Championships courses
« Reply #137 on: August 16, 2016, 11:52:26 AM »

As I said, I have done X-hoopers with all buy my beagle, a few times over the last 2 years since it was offered and I wanted to see what it was all about.  And I am scheduled to run it in a few weeks at a trial. 

Dog #1, just didn't like it.  But that is not surprising, she doesn't like hoops in general.  She can do it, but does she have fun?  No, she doesn't, so why bother spending the money on a course that she doesn't really have fun on or why even put her in something she doesn't enjoy?  I do the same for tunnelers.  She doesn't care for it, so I generally don't run her in it.  If we had to do a hoopers class, I much preferred the strategic hoopers with her.  I know, I am in the MINORITY on that one.  That being said, she is a better distance dog and seeks out obstacles so for her, she did OK the few times she ran it.   

Dog #2 is my little dog.  He has run it a few times over the last 2 years.  Was he successful at the Novice level?  Yes, eventually, sometimes.  Does he have fun doing it?  Nope, not really.  He gets frustrated by the gates because he can't see me and the fact that I can't really step in to help him at all.  (I have never run it with expens.)  The first time he ran it, he ended up in the middle like a whirling dervish barking and not knowing where to go (he had to go across the the back end of the circle and he couldn't feel the pressure to keep going because of the gates blocking his vision of me) and I couldn't go in to help him out.  I was finally able to get him to come out to me, but he was freaked out.  That being said, he loves regular hoopers class.  But there is no distraction of the gates and if he turns in, I can take a step and help him out if necessary and he can see me.  Personally, he LOVED the old barrelers style course of EGC the best.  He likes the new one too so I run that with him at times, if it is offered and depending on availbility of funds at that time. 

I have run regular hoopers with my beagle and she didn't do well. Her head would EXPLODE in Xhoopers!  I have enough issues keeping her on course without adding a great little scratch and sniff area for her....   :P  Not to mention that I do limited runs with her for financial reasons and her age (10.5) and she much prefers TNG and tunnelers.  With her, the variety of equipment keeps her on course more because the verbal cues given to her.  If I just keep saying "hoop", 'hoop" with her, she can (and wil) take any hoop that her head happens to see at the time.  There is not really drawing a path with her because at any one time, her nose could take over and she doesn't see me. If I talk to her and tell her the next obstacle, she pays far better attention. 

Dog #4 is a puppy.  She is training on hoops in my basement and my small back yard but I have no gates and where I train doesn't have gates or hoops so we will see where she ends up with all of this.  She has a bit more forward drive so she might do well. Only time will tell with her. 

My main issue with it at Champs is because we don't see this course here in the midwest.  We can certainly train it, if we can find a trainer, or a space and the equipement to do it, but it is not like a trial.  And that puts those people at a disadvantage.  The analogy of the weaves, or contacts is not really accurate only because you see those at every trial and regardless of who you train with, they all use that equipment.  It may be slatted or tallker, but it is basically the same equipment.  You also have the abiltiy to work on them at trials.  One of my dogs is a great weaver, but not a great contact dog, am I at a disadvantage in the contact round?  Heck yes, but I see contacts at every trial and I train those contacts at every trial. 

Unfortunately, a lot comes down to money with me.  I have limited funds and I mostly run the classes that my dogs love to run.  After all, I am the one asking them to do this, so if there are courses they don't particularly have fun in, then I don't generally run them.

Very good input and I thank you for that.

Sharon
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Sharon Nelson

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Re: Championships courses
« Reply #138 on: August 16, 2016, 12:29:58 PM »
I will drop the hoop circle round of the champs.  If anyone added it on and want to cancel those add ons, please email me privately and Becky can refund anyone's paypal payment if they added on any runs.

I really wanted everyone to have fun. 

I really appreciated all of the great input and good suggestions to a solution.  I am sorry that some of the sarcasm was posted by individuals.  That added nothing to a constructive discussion.  So we will end this discussion and move forward.  I am sure I can find other ways to challenge each team!

Sharon
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LeeAnne McAdam

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Re: Championships courses
« Reply #139 on: August 16, 2016, 12:33:20 PM »


We have had the gate circle set up at a trial, alone or as part of a regular course

Alot of people have never seen a hoop circle at all, so you guys are VERY fortunate to have seen it in X-hoopers AND in a regular course like what champs is suppose to have!


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I understand that, Jimmy.  Believe me, when I was in Virginia nobody offered to put one up in my yard for me (not that it would have fit), but I liked what I had seen and figured out a way I could practice it.  As I said in another post, when I didn't have enough gates for a circle, I set up three gates with hoops on either end, the closest imitation I could come up with.  When a club a 5-hour drive away from me started offering it as part of their trials, I made sure I supported them and was pesky enough to my local club that we made it happen, too. 

I totally understand that all of us don't have to like the same things and if people choose not to take part in the class, that is completely up to them, but I also know from firsthand experience that where there is a will, there often really is a way.

You should come down and play with us sometime!
Lee Anne

JimmyS.

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Re: Championships courses
« Reply #140 on: August 16, 2016, 12:36:13 PM »


We have had the gate circle set up at a trial, alone or as part of a regular course

Alot of people have never seen a hoop circle at all, so you guys are VERY fortunate to have seen it in X-hoopers AND in a regular course like what champs is suppose to have!


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I understand that, Jimmy.  Believe me, when I was in Virginia nobody offered to put one up in my yard for me (not that it would have fit), but I liked what I had seen and figured out a way I could practice it.  As I said in another post, when I didn't have enough gates for a circle, I set up three gates with hoops on either end, the closest imitation I could come up with.  When a club a 5-hour drive away from me started offering it as part of their trials, I made sure I supported them and was pesky enough to my local club that we made it happen, too. 

I totally understand that all of us don't have to like the same things and if people choose not to take part in the class, that is completely up to them, but I also know from firsthand experience that where there is a will, there often really is a way.

You should come down and play with us sometime!
Awesome!

I would come down more if we were ever home! Lol

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Marcy Matties

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Re: Championships courses
« Reply #141 on: August 16, 2016, 12:50:05 PM »
I will drop the hoop circle round of the champs.  If anyone added it on and want to cancel those add ons, please email me privately and Becky can refund anyone's paypal payment if they added on any runs.

I really wanted everyone to have fun. 

I really appreciated all of the great input and good suggestions to a solution.  I am sorry that some of the sarcasm was posted by individuals.  That added nothing to a constructive discussion.  So we will end this discussion and move forward.  I am sure I can find other ways to challenge each team!

Sharon

Well darn!  While we don't do XHoopers here in Texas I was relieved to know ahead of time what the "unusual challenge" was going to be - and making plans to practice it!  Now I'm scared silly.  We didn't do very well on the barrels with hoops challenge last year - not terrible, but not great.  And in 2013 we crashed and burned on the EGC course - most people - even those that had never done it - had 6, 7, maybe 8 faults at the most.  We had SIXTY + faults!  lol 

I was so looking forward to good nights sleeps knowing that I at least had an inkling what Sharon was going to challenge us with.  Now I will probably have nightmares imagining all kinds of devious plots ...  lol  ;D ;D
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Lisa Bonker In The Zone Agility

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Re: Championships courses
« Reply #142 on: August 16, 2016, 12:51:31 PM »
So thinking ahead ----so will you consider doing Xhoopers or Barrelers at champs next year??

If so, then I think the qualifications to enter champs needs to reflect what classes will be focused upon.
  So if you require a Novice title in Xhoopers or Barrelers to enter champs people will have had to run in these classes prior to champs.

If people know NOW---they can choose to train it, enter it , offer it etc.

Honestly, I like the idea of the Xhoopers focus course. I think the course you posted looked really fun and I would love to run these type courses.      So if you announce it now, people will have a year to train it and we can try again next year !




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Sharon Nelson

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Re: Championships courses
« Reply #143 on: August 16, 2016, 01:01:50 PM »
So thinking ahead ----so will you consider doing Xhoopers or Barrelers at champs next year??

If so, then I think the qualifications to enter champs needs to reflect what classes will be focused upon.
  So if you require a Novice title in Xhoopers or Barrelers to enter champs people will have had to run in these classes prior to champs.

If people know NOW---they can choose to train it, enter it , offer it etc.

Honestly, I like the idea of the Xhoopers focus course. I think the course you posted looked really fun and I would love to run these type courses.      So if you announce it now, people will have a year to train it and we can try again next year !

Nope, it will be the old style, nothing new.   

I know that you could have done it and so could anyone else........ but people just don't believe in themselves like I believe in them. 

Nothing new, ever again.

Sharon
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Rebecca Kriz

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Re: Championships courses
« Reply #144 on: August 16, 2016, 01:05:10 PM »
So thinking ahead ----so will you consider doing Xhoopers or Barrelers at champs next year??

If so, then I think the qualifications to enter champs needs to reflect what classes will be focused upon.
  So if you require a Novice title in Xhoopers or Barrelers to enter champs people will have had to run in these classes prior to champs.

If people know NOW---they can choose to train it, enter it , offer it etc.

Honestly, I like the idea of the Xhoopers focus course. I think the course you posted looked really fun and I would love to run these type courses.      So if you announce it now, people will have a year to train it and we can try again next year !

Nope, it will be the old style, nothing new.   

I know that you could have done it and so could anyone else........ but people just don't believe in themselves like I believe in them. 

Nothing new, ever again.

Sharon

Could we please have one of those barrel/hoop/tunnel courses instead???  Technically they aren't new, since they've been offered at Champs before.   :P
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Sharon Nelson

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Re: Championships courses
« Reply #145 on: August 16, 2016, 01:12:22 PM »

Could we please have one of those barrel/hoop/tunnel courses instead???  Technically they aren't new, since they've been offered at Champs before.   :P

OMG, Rebecca, you are too funny!  And you are right!!  That isn't new at all...............

Sharon
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Vicki Storrs

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Re: Championships courses
« Reply #146 on: August 16, 2016, 01:15:52 PM »
I am not going to Champs this year--had hoped to figure out how to manage the cross country trip, but logistics didn't work out. So maybe I shouldn't weigh in here...but here I go anyway.
I run an 11 year old, 11" Scottie who thinks distance is spelled with 4 letters. His ideal run is one where I would accompany him to every single obstacle. Switches and rear crosses are avoided as he is seldom far enough in front to be able to do one. That being said he tried the hoop circle once back in it's infancy, at a clinic before it was even a class, and MY head exploded when he nailed it.  He saw it one more time, 4 years later, and nailed it again.  (And he finished both times with a big smile on his hairy face.). (This was with the "vision blocking"--apparently--gates, before expens). Experienced people who have run it, seen new dogs run it, trained it, are reassuring people that the SKILLS it takes to be successful in the hoop circle can be practiced, with or without the actual full circle with all the pens and hoops and I for one believe them. Will there be a dog who struggles?  Possibly. But I say this with the utmost compassion (remember I run a Scottie) this is also probably a dog who has some training issues/weak spots anyway. And that is what Champs is for, the marathon to find and weed out those of us with weak spots.  Wonderfully, dogs with weak spots--even my Scottie--are accepted and applauded at Champs! But I go fully expecting that our weak spots will be exposed, somewhere on some run, during Champs, because that's what Champs is for.
Everyone goes to Champs hoping to do the best they can as a team, and, at least for me, to have a great time and watch a bunch of wonderful teams. For most of us, that is the best and most realistic goal, with maybe, just maybe, a ribbon in one of our dogs' "favorite" themed classes.  If my dog has issues with anything, I don't expect standards to be minimized to make it possible for me to be more competitive.
I am also one of those people who doesn't trial much.  Even though trials in this general area are pretty available, i don't usually compete on Sundays, so don't travel, and can't afford--like many my budget is limited and I run two dogs--to do even every Saturday trial available in my nearby area. And I can certainly understand the decision to not enter a class your dog--or you--hates. But IF this is the reason you don't want a hoop circle at Champs, sorry that's NOT a valid reason.  It's merely a choice you made. So why even mention it.
NADAC IS a different venue, one which I have come to love. It took me a while--coming from the rigid, structured, finely parsed rules in the AKC obedience world--to get used to the "fluidity" and the fact that the head of it was in direct contact with us, informing us of possible changes (though YOU had to make the effort to keep up to date) and willing to listen to opposing ideas, and even change her mind on occasion, when they are presented respectfully, thoughtfully, and intelligently. Even when I don't agree with an outcome I sure have respect for the process. This is one of those times I do agree, though this time the process has often been rather ugly. People have been told Ahead of time what to expect at Champs. Sorry, but I find it hard to complain about that.
A LOT of things on this thread and the general discussion thread similar to this one have been brought up about the issue.  The ONLY, in my opinion, valid issue is whether or not it is a fair "sequence" to have at Champs. Not whether a dog or handler "likes" it, not whether a dog will sniff or spin if isolated inside the circle, not whether your money or time or location limits the trials you attend, not even whether "this is why people are leaving NADAC for other venues."  These are personal issues, training issues, and big picture issues...and opinions.  The hoop circle was in EGC for a number of years--and has been included in Champs as part of EGC. Also, in my opinion, not pertinent.  However it IS now a part of NADAC. If you have seen it and didn't like it, oh well. If you simply haven't seen it, you have been given time to prepare and suggestions on how to prepare--from groups working together with a full hoop circle, to one person reinforcing the skills needed in their small backyard with some hoops. I think complaining about it is not much different than complaining about a sequence being set up in a way you hadn't experienced before...and yet isn't that what Chamos is supposed to be all about?  New things, new "tests," seeing who is training thinking teammates who navigate things they haven't seen before because the groundwork has been taught.
Vicki Storrs
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Becky Woodruff

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Re: Championships courses
« Reply #147 on: August 16, 2016, 01:33:08 PM »
Well stated Vicki!

Thanks,
Becky
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Jillhubb

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Re: Championships courses
« Reply #148 on: August 16, 2016, 01:38:10 PM »
Well, this is all just too bad ... I love the new challenges you put forth and look forward to learning and training my little 3yo guy ~ He LOVES to learn and NADAC has been our venue from the beginning ~ Keep the chin up Sharon ~ There is a silent group out here loving new skills! ~ More is better in my humble opinion :)

LeeAnne McAdam

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Re: Championships courses
« Reply #149 on: August 16, 2016, 01:47:02 PM »
You rock, Vicki!!!
Lee Anne