Author Topic: January 2019 Announcement Video  (Read 8166 times)

Chris Nelson

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Amy McGovern

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Re: January 2019 Announcement Video
« Reply #1 on: January 31, 2019, 05:45:34 PM »
Chris, loving the new rules.  One quick question:  does the tugging mean they can now grab their leash at the end of a run and tug? 
Amy and the schnauzers

Chris Nelson

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Re: January 2019 Announcement Video
« Reply #2 on: January 31, 2019, 05:58:59 PM »
Chris, loving the new rules.  One quick question:  does the tugging mean they can now grab their leash at the end of a run and tug? 

In June, Yes

knittingdog

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Re: January 2019 Announcement Video
« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2019, 08:18:48 PM »

So is Gamblers going to replace Chances or will it be another class added to the current lineup?

Robin

Chris Nelson

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Re: January 2019 Announcement Video
« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2019, 09:45:35 PM »

So is Gamblers going to replace Chances or will it be another class added to the current lineup?

Robin
Added to the lineup.


Gamblers and chances are so different in the skills required that it wouldn’t make sense to replace it.

It’s not going to be a requirement for any natch or v natch awards.   That could be something that happens way down the road,  but for now we’re starting slow :)


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Lisa Schmit In The Zone Agility

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Re: January 2019 Announcement Video
« Reply #5 on: February 01, 2019, 02:37:49 AM »
I am respectively asking that clubs be allowed to choose to allow tugging or not in the ring as long as we put it in the premium.   

As a business owner, I am very uncomfortable with having dogs tug in the ring while another dog is in the ring.  Regardless of what other venues allow, I personally belief it is unsafe to have two dogs in the ring at once and one (or two not sure if dog can tug coming in ring) tugging.  So as a business owner, I am asking to please allow clubs to  choose if they want to take the risk and liability on.     People have different opinions on this, but I am hoping not to be forced to allow an activity that I feel may endanger dogs at my trials. 

I think it is really unfair to the person coming to the line that is working hard to stay connected with their dog and they walk in the ring and the dog in the ring is tugging- and many dogs are very vocal tuggers.   All that connection stuff is gone in that millisecond and this can at best just ruin the dogs run as he is distracted now; at worst the dog charges the tugging dog and there is a dog fight.   It is not worth it to me to allow an activity that I believe could cause these issues. 

Thank you for your consideration
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Maureen deHaan

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Re: January 2019 Announcement Video
« Reply #6 on: February 01, 2019, 02:57:23 AM »
I have to agree with Lisa on this - people pay good $$ to run their dogs - and if a tugging dog in the ring ( or on the way out of the ring or behind the ring) - ruins the concentration of said dog or scares the dog whatever - they lose their money - I know I'd be pretty pissed - I know you said Chris, to be respectful of others but truth be told - people are just too myopic to pay attention to others or care. 

Please let clubs choose if they want to do it or not - pretty please


#2 - random thoughts on price increase -

With the price increase to clubs to be able to hold trials (which I totally understand by they way) Do you feel that small clubs who count on entry fees to pay for trial costs and have very small trials (speaking of mine in particular)  will lose customers bc the price increase (2x over to both NADAC and judges)  will have to trickle down to the competitors and they will either not want to pay it or enter fewer runs  - and this is a luxury item - if people can't / don't want to pay a higher price then clubs like mine go out of the trial hosting business. Just thinking out loud -
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KarissaKS

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Re: January 2019 Announcement Video
« Reply #7 on: February 01, 2019, 05:35:32 AM »
In all of my years competing in other organizations, I have literally never seen a loose dog go after a tugging dog (at the start or finish). Some dogs bark a lot coming into the ring or leaving the ring -- isn't that equally as disruptive to many dogs?
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BeckyAH

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Re: January 2019 Announcement Video
« Reply #8 on: February 01, 2019, 06:23:11 AM »
I see quite a few people who are planning on coming back to NADAC even on a local level because of the change to allow toys for training in Novice and Intro - and to allow tugging on leashes at the end of a run.   I am HOPING this off sets some of the increased fees (which I do understand is needed), because I don't have a max number of runs per trial, I have a max amount of money.  So the money I give clubs really can't increase.   I have some nerves about my smaller local clubs, because I love them and I don't want those trials to go away. This isn't a complaint about NADAC or increasing prices, just me worrying.

The post run tugging - man, I don't know.  I've got one dog who doesn't tug anyway (not toy driven), one dog who would probably benefit, and one dog who, uh, absolutely does not need any more arousal if I want my runs not to fall apart.  That last dog is also pretty environmentally sensitive and not a big fan of other dogs who appear to be 'out of control'.   Would she leave me to go after a dog tugging on the other side of a ring?  No.  Would she be likely to lose her shit about it on the line?  Honestly?  Maybe.  Would we lose connection? Yep.  The noises involved are not even remotely similar to a dog excitement barking at the start line, or running and neither is her response (ie: she has none to *barking* dogs, but growling ones thrashing around are entirely different).

But see the first paragraph:  I know people who are willing to come back because they can tug so I'm pretty inclined to just grit my teeth and work through it in the name of increased revenue for clubs who need it.   Because I'd rather have dogs tugging leaving the ring at a trial than no trial, by rather a lot.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2019, 06:25:38 AM by BeckyAH »

danforth

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Re: January 2019 Announcement Video
« Reply #9 on: February 01, 2019, 06:54:38 AM »
If the dog that is leaving the ring is tugging and generating excitement,  could the entering dog have the option of not entering the ring until the excited dog has exited.   That might help the handler keep connected to their dog who is about to start.   Once dog has left the ring, then bring your dog into the ring expecting to set up and release right away.
Isabel and Cocoa

Chris Nelson

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Re: January 2019 Announcement Video
« Reply #10 on: February 01, 2019, 07:00:37 AM »
We can definitely discuss it.

Let me ask you all this, how is this any different than a dog who non stop barks while running?

A good example is my dog Spree, if we have to follow a dog who barks non stop, we might as well not run because her mind will be gone.

Is this a training issue, or a rule issue?   Should we ban barking dogs?

As of right now, a person could be tugging directly outside the ring where you are about to enter and run, and they do.   Why has this issue never came up with those dogs?
I think the important part to remember is that it's a probationary test.    If it doesn't work out, then it'll leave.   But I think it's a bit early for anyone to say whether it's going to be this terrible thing, when it's still 6 months from it even happening.

And I would like to know whether we should be banning those barking dogs, cause that would make my Q rate go up!

Chris Nelson

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Re: January 2019 Announcement Video
« Reply #11 on: February 01, 2019, 07:07:47 AM »


#2 - random thoughts on price increase -

With the price increase to clubs to be able to hold trials (which I totally understand by they way) Do you feel that small clubs who count on entry fees to pay for trial costs and have very small trials (speaking of mine in particular)  will lose customers bc the price increase (2x over to both NADAC and judges)  will have to trickle down to the competitors and they will either not want to pay it or enter fewer runs  - and this is a luxury item - if people can't / don't want to pay a higher price then clubs like mine go out of the trial hosting business. Just thinking out loud -


It's hard to say.    Is it possible, yes.    I'm hoping we will get more people by making the business all around a bit better.

What I can say for 100% sure is that without more people working for NADAC, we are at capacity.     So that means emails take longer to answer, forms are outdated, website gets outdated, and improvements pretty much won't happen because we don't have the man power to make it happen.     So the only choice I can really make is the one that moves the venue forward.    And we'll do everything we can for the smaller clubs to keep them in business

DiCasino

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Re: January 2019 Announcement Video
« Reply #12 on: February 01, 2019, 07:11:49 AM »
If you ban barking dogs, I believe it would be called cat agility! lol
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KellyDittmar

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Re: January 2019 Announcement Video
« Reply #13 on: February 01, 2019, 07:20:04 AM »
Let me ask you all this, how is this any different than a dog who non stop barks while running?

A good example is my dog Spree, if we have to follow a dog who barks non stop, we might as well not run because her mind will be gone.

Is this a training issue, or a rule issue?   Should we ban barking dogs?

As of right now, a person could be tugging directly outside the ring where you are about to enter and run, and they do.   Why has this issue never came up with those dogs?
I think the important part to remember is that it's a probationary test.    If it doesn't work out, then it'll leave.   But I think it's a bit early for anyone to say whether it's going to be this terrible thing, when it's still 6 months from it even happening.

And I would like to know whether we should be banning those barking dogs, cause that would make my Q rate go up!

I think that's a great question & a great point, Chris! Around here, we have a few non-stop barking dogs, and a few dogs that can't handle it... I know people who have (will & do) move their dogs because of those other dogs... I also know that many of the handlers who have barking dogs do try to discourage it because they don't want to have a negative impact on someone else's run. I know some have either given up or don't give a crud. It always hurts me, on a personal level, to see someone with a frantically barking dog and a handler that does nothing to try to settle and quiet them. And the reason it hurts me is because I believe we're a community - sharing this crazy game with our dogs and each other. At the end of the day - when people run their last run with their partner - I don't hear them saying "if we had just Q'd more" - I hear them talking about the joy of the experience with their dog and the friendships they made along the way... and because that's what I hear - that's what I try to foster in the events I participate in. Community rather than "me". And Lord knows I fail at this time and time again, but that doesn't mean I stop trying. Incidentally - i don't think I'm alone in this community feeling. I think it's why you have the experience right now that you've mentioned before about aggressive dogs and people who don't want to tell NADAC even though they know the dog is a safety risk. You care about the people in your community and most people don't want to rat out their friends!

To the "training issue" concept... I think we can all discuss it endlessly. Is your dog's barking a training issue? or my dog's intolerance? But you could flip it around (as it has been) and say "Is your dog's targeting and tugging on their leash a training issue?" The world is a "training issue" sometimes!

In terms of the "tugging directly outside of the ring" - I thought that you had to be 10 feet from the ring right now? Are people already disrespecting that rule?

(And speaking of the dog ban... check the list - when i saw it a few weeks back, there was someone who was banned until sometime last year who was still showing on the list.)

Kelly
« Last Edit: February 01, 2019, 07:51:31 AM by KellyDittmar »
Kelly Dittmar
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Amy McGovern

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Re: January 2019 Announcement Video
« Reply #14 on: February 01, 2019, 07:21:02 AM »
We can definitely discuss it.

Let me ask you all this, how is this any different than a dog who non stop barks while running?

Speaking as the owner of one of those barking dogs, I always try to be respectful to the person ahead of me.  I ask them if they mind that she barks.  We try our best but she nearly always screams as we enter the ring.  It's her breed and it's how she expresses herself.  I've found if someone says their dog is bothered by mine that the gate has always let us reorder the dogs.  And at the most recent show (where I was running both my quiet dog and my loud dog nearly back to back as my son was out of town), I was able to find someone trustworthy to hold my loud dog and keep her quiet during the quiet dog's run (this is not something just anyone can do or understand, I've discovered.). With all of that said, I would hope that other loud dog owners are respectful.  I know I would be sure to move my dog in the running order if someone asked me to!  But if I was told that loud dogs were banned?  I'd quit the venue with ALL of my dogs.  (I realize you are being facetious on this as you would easily lose 25-40% of your running dogs if you banned barking.  And mine isn't the loudest dog running by any means!).

Maybe the best answer it just to have people be respectful!

-Amy
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