Author Topic: January 2019 Announcement Video  (Read 8640 times)

bettyj.carter

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Re: January 2019 Announcement Video
« Reply #15 on: February 01, 2019, 07:22:27 AM »
All prices go up....fact of life. Still the best bargain for agility!! Even we have to pay a little bit more. I love all the things NADAC has done in the recent years, well worth the money...I'm staying!!
However, if you ban barking dogs, you might not let me stay. LOL!! I'm pretty sure my high drive sheltie will bark much less entering and exiting the ring if he is mildly tugging on his leash. Luckily, he is a very polite tugger!! I'm excited to see what happens!!

BeckyAH

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Re: January 2019 Announcement Video
« Reply #16 on: February 01, 2019, 07:34:44 AM »
We can definitely discuss it.

Let me ask you all this, how is this any different than a dog who non stop barks while running?

A good example is my dog Spree, if we have to follow a dog who barks non stop, we might as well not run because her mind will be gone.

Is this a training issue, or a rule issue?   Should we ban barking dogs?

As of right now, a person could be tugging directly outside the ring where you are about to enter and run, and they do.   Why has this issue never came up with those dogs?
I think the important part to remember is that it's a probationary test.    If it doesn't work out, then it'll leave.   But I think it's a bit early for anyone to say whether it's going to be this terrible thing, when it's still 6 months from it even happening.

And I would like to know whether we should be banning those barking dogs, cause that would make my Q rate go up!

I think it's a training issue, but I think it's not exactly the same.

A dog playing with a toy - leash here - loudly and enthusiastically is not going to be the same level of distraction as a dog who is excitement barking.  Both because of the presence of a toy (and many of our dogs are very toy driven) and the nature of the dog's vocalization and movement (which are radically different, and often more excited and/or aggressive sounding).

Still a training issue/something that can be dealt with, but it is a, shall we say, a higher level of difficulty in the distraction training than a dog doing the course who barks.  Even if they're nonstop barking.  They're not growling, flailing, and playing with a toy.  Plus they're IN THE RING which means the dog that's not tugging is also in a state of higher arousal than even 10 feet outside it.

I'm fine with doing the training, provided my dog losing her shit a little at the start line when she first sees this in a trial  doesn't get *her* kicked out.   But the difficulty level is higher and I think it's a thing that should be acknowledged, along with the aspect of 'this has never been a thing these dogs have seen in the ring before' and some tolerance is extended during the period where people ARE training it.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2019, 07:36:15 AM by BeckyAH »

Chris Nelson

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Re: January 2019 Announcement Video
« Reply #17 on: February 01, 2019, 08:02:41 AM »
I think folks might also be over estimating what is going to be happening here.

1) Feet can't leave the ground.  In other words, aggressive tugging is not allowed.
2) Even right now if someone is disruptive at the finish line, they should be getting a talk from the judge.  This could be a handler screaming excitedly for their dog, distracting the incoming dog
3) Dogs still have to leave the ring in a timely manner.  If someone is just hanging out tugging, they will be talked to

KellyDittmar

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Re: January 2019 Announcement Video
« Reply #18 on: February 01, 2019, 08:25:30 AM »
I think folks might also be over estimating what is going to be happening here.

1) Feet can't leave the ground.  In other words, aggressive tugging is not allowed.
2) Even right now if someone is disruptive at the finish line, they should be getting a talk from the judge.  This could be a handler screaming excitedly for their dog, distracting the incoming dog
3) Dogs still have to leave the ring in a timely manner.  If someone is just hanging out tugging, they will be talked to

So I think what I'm unclear about is what's driving this change? Dogs have been allowed to pick up their leash for a while now. Handlers have had to put the leash on the dog, and the dog can leave the ring with their mouth around their leash. That's legal today (Feb 1, 2019) as i understand it. The only difference is now the handler can engage with the dog's leash rather than just calmly leaving until they are 10 feet from the ring to tug.

Kelly
Kelly Dittmar
Sam & Jake
Minnesota

Chris Nelson

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Re: January 2019 Announcement Video
« Reply #19 on: February 01, 2019, 08:41:07 AM »
The drive for the change is that it works perfectly okay in every other venue,  so why have a rule that doesn’t have any benefit,  and is actually a detriment to some dogs who need the reward.

I think folks are putting a bit too much thought into this.

If you go to England you’ll see Agility shows with 800+ dogs,  they all tug.   Agility over there is doing just dandy,  no life ending cases of aggression or anything else.    Updating an outdated rule is the driving force.


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BeckyAH

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Re: January 2019 Announcement Video
« Reply #20 on: February 01, 2019, 08:59:01 AM »
I don't know.   I don't know every dog.  I know that if I played tug with my dogs, feet would stay on the ground but they would absolutely be thrashing back and forth with it and growling.

You are right though, if it's still 'leash the dog and leave' the duration shouldn't be a real issue or issue at all.

Donna & Gracie

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Re: January 2019 Announcement Video
« Reply #21 on: February 01, 2019, 09:07:58 AM »
Gamblers... I may be jumping the gun with this question. Nadac is allowing “grandfathering” from other venue’s,  so handlers  may be able to start at an elite level in gamblers if they participate in other venues at an elite level of a comparable class to gamblers, is that correct? What about those of us that only do Nadac. Will our dogs who have been running elite for years have to start in Novice like when we started hoopers, and barrelers or can they opt to try elite? Just wondering if this may be a disadvantage for some.
Luv my mini aussie
Donna & Gracie

Chris Nelson

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Re: January 2019 Announcement Video
« Reply #22 on: February 01, 2019, 09:14:03 AM »
Gamblers... I may be jumping the gun with this question. Nadac is allowing “grandfathering” from other venue’s,  so handlers  may be able to start at an elite level in gamblers if they participate in other venues at an elite level of a comparable class to gamblers, is that correct? What about those of us that only do Nadac. Will our dogs who have been running elite for years have to start in Novice like when we started hoopers, and barrelers or can they opt to try elite? Just wondering if this may be a disadvantage for some.
The handlers who haven’t been doing gamblers,  probably want to start in Novice.

It’s a very different game from anything we have,  if you’re Nadac only it would be a very bad idea to just jump into elite gamblers when you haven’t honed the skills needed,  situational awareness, awareness of time, counting points,  knowing your dogs speed for how many points you can get in the time allowed, setting up for a gamble.

Yes Nadac only folks will need to start at Novice if they don’t have that experience in another venue,  which is intentional.   It would be a train wreck to see folks who haven’t done gamblers in 15+ years, or never at all, try to do an elite level class.


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MoabDiane

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Re: January 2019 Announcement Video
« Reply #23 on: February 01, 2019, 10:02:15 AM »
Interesting, but I’m laughing to myself.  Loved NADAC’s old gamblers!   Have had good success in USDAA gamblers (Bracken’s retirement run from USDAA was that!).  Looking forward to hearing more, but also wishing more info was forthcoming sooner than later - perhaps for me but also others who might want to prepare for this new game.  Many of us would like to play, not excited about starting in novice, and haven’t seen or heard anything from those who “tested” it.

Bring it on!
Diane

Chris Nelson

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Re: January 2019 Announcement Video
« Reply #24 on: February 01, 2019, 10:27:18 AM »
Interesting, but I’m laughing to myself.  Loved NADAC’s old gamblers!   Have had good success in USDAA gamblers (Bracken’s retirement run from USDAA was that!).  Looking forward to hearing more, but also wishing more info was forthcoming sooner than later - perhaps for me but also others who might want to prepare for this new game.  Many of us would like to play, not excited about starting in novice, and haven’t seen or heard anything from those who “tested” it.

Bring it on!
Diane

We should have some detailed info out by the end of this month :)

KellyDittmar

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Re: January 2019 Announcement Video
« Reply #25 on: February 01, 2019, 10:45:44 AM »
We should have some detailed info out by the end of this month :)

Can this include a map? I'm really curious to know what it will look like!

Thanks!
Kelly
Kelly Dittmar
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Minnesota

Re: January 2019 Announcement Video
« Reply #26 on: February 01, 2019, 12:03:26 PM »

So is Gamblers going to replace Chances or will it be another class added to the current lineup?

Robin
Added to the lineup.


Gamblers and chances are so different in the skills required that it wouldn’t make sense to replace it.

It’s not going to be a requirement for any natch or v natch awards.   That could be something that happens way down the road,  but for now we’re starting slow :)


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Just a thought for the future - if "way down the road" you are considering including gamblers as part of a natch, perhaps you could modify the "Chances" requirement for a regular natch from needing 130 chances points to needing a total of 130 points from chances and/or gamblers? Just a thought for those of us that are struggling to get all our chances points! The skills might be different but perhaps the two skill sets are or can be made equally challenging?

Chris Nelson

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Re: January 2019 Announcement Video
« Reply #27 on: February 01, 2019, 12:11:47 PM »

So is Gamblers going to replace Chances or will it be another class added to the current lineup?

Robin
Added to the lineup.


Gamblers and chances are so different in the skills required that it wouldn’t make sense to replace it.

It’s not going to be a requirement for any natch or v natch awards.   That could be something that happens way down the road,  but for now we’re starting slow :)


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Just a thought for the future - if "way down the road" you are considering including gamblers as part of a natch, perhaps you could modify the "Chances" requirement for a regular natch from needing 130 chances points to needing a total of 130 points from chances and/or gamblers? Just a thought for those of us that are struggling to get all our chances points! The skills might be different but perhaps the two skill sets are or can be made equally challenging?
Something to think about for sure.

We definitely won’t be making it a requirement for anything anytime soon though, have to give people a chance to try it and like it before we do too much :)


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Kim_S

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Re: January 2019 Announcement Video
« Reply #28 on: February 01, 2019, 05:10:55 PM »
It sounds like good business decisions are being made to make NADAC more attractive to people competing in other organizations. Its great that tugging will be allowed and also training in the ring.  Smart changes.  For people who are concerned about tugging distracting their NADAC only dogs, the tugging I tend to see at USDAA is no big deal.  In most cases the dog is more or less heeling with the leash in its mouth, tugging as the handler exits the ring.  Its not a big tug fest in the ring.  Kim
« Last Edit: February 01, 2019, 05:17:19 PM by Kim_S »
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Cindy

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Re: January 2019 Announcement Video
« Reply #29 on: February 01, 2019, 09:01:04 PM »
Gamblers... I may be jumping the gun with this question. Nadac is allowing “grandfathering” from other venue’s,  so handlers  may be able to start at an elite level in gamblers if they participate in other venues at an elite level of a comparable class to gamblers, is that correct? What about those of us that only do Nadac. Will our dogs who have been running elite for years have to start in Novice like when we started hoopers, and barrelers or can they opt to try elite? Just wondering if this may be a disadvantage for some.
The handlers who haven’t been doing gamblers,  probably want to start in Novice.

It’s a very different game from anything we have,  if you’re Nadac only it would be a very bad idea to just jump into elite gamblers when you haven’t honed the skills needed,  situational awareness, awareness of time, counting points,  knowing your dogs speed for how many points you can get in the time allowed, setting up for a gamble.

Yes Nadac only folks will need to start at Novice if they don’t have that experience in another venue,  which is intentional.   It would be a train wreck to see folks who haven’t done gamblers in 15+ years, or never at all, try to do an elite level class.


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This doesn't impact me since I have a puppy, but this feels a little backwards.  People who have never done NADAC are allowed to start in Elite in any class even though it may be a "train wreck" and they may discover they need to move down, but the NADAC loyalists who only do NADAC - many of whom ran Gamblers "back in the day" - have to start in Novice for the "new class" because they don't have the skills?  NADAC only people should be the best prepared for NADAC style challenges....and the best judges of what level they and their dogs will likely be successful at in NADAC.  The time and obstacle strategy may be new for some, but that can be practiced for.

I understand you're trying to attract other venue people, and one way of doing that is to let them start at the level they think is fair based on their titles.  I'm not sure I agree with that, but since you've chosen to extend that courtesy to people who haven't traditionally supported NADAC in the hopes that they will going forward, it seems like when you add a new class this same courtesy should be extended to people who have supported NADAC for years, and worked through the levels to get their dogs to Elite.

Traditionally people have been required to start in Novice when new classes have been added, and people in Elite either did it or just didn't play the new class, but that rule applied to everyone equally.  This feels like you're favoring other venue folk over your loyal customers.....or at the very least taking your loyal customers for granted and assuming they will remain loyal even if they aren't getting equal treatment.

I know you're working hard to grow NADAC, but while you're looking to attract people who have never done NADAC, please also remember the feelings and support of the people who have ONLY done NADAC - some for many, many years.  We're used to other venue people looking down on us, but we shouldn't feel like we're being looked down on by NADAC.  If other venue people are being given the option of taking the risk of crashing and burning in all classes, then NADAC people with Elite dogs should be given that same option in Gamblers!

Just my 2 cents.
Cindy and the Beagles