Scoring Finals at Champs

[Amy McGovern]

Too much happening right before the awards ceremony to be doing all the things required to have placement ribbons.   There is a lot more to putting out placement ribbons then just setting them out.   And the time after finals is already too short.   No time to add in more work there
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I'm sad to hear this.  It is literally the only run all year that can't get a placement ribbon.  And it is the finals run for champs! 

[KellyDittmar]

Small request:  could we put out placement ribbons for finals?  It's literally the ONLY run at champs without placements.  They can be self serve. But I sure would have loved a placement for that run!

You're not alone in this, Amy. It baffles me why ribbons everywhere are self-service based on a printed sheet in a book. I understand the big wall presentation at champs - and that's fun - but I am completely confused as to why you go into the finals round at champs - one of the most stressful & expensive runs many have in their careers - and they knock it out of the park and there's no satin to take home from it. Sure - it doesn't matter at all to some people... but it does matter a lot to others who may not have placed at all before finals. That little something-something to carry home... 

The scores are calculated and posted. No one needs a big presentation or delay. But for those would would value that ribbon - it would sure be nice to have the option to take it home. Or have it sent out with the next awards mailing if it's too much to do DOS.

Kelly

[dogrsqr]

Maybe someone could volunteer to put out the final round placement ribbons?

Gina Pizzo

[Chris Nelson]

We haven’t put out placement ribbons for finals for 20+ years.   Why is it now an issue?

In regards to the number of dogs in finals it’s always been the top 33%.

We just have a lot more dogs competing now.




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[Chris Nelson]

Also scores may be calculated for finals but placements are not.

There is also a reason the ribbons aren’t self serve.   No offense to anyone, but in my experience leaving large groups of people to their own devices never works out well.

We don’t order extra ribbons at all, as they are pretty expensive.

So one person taking the wrong ribbon deprives the correct owner of that ribbon.  And I can guarantee that will happen as it already happens even with the ribbon wall and we have to track people down.

Also I’m just not a fan of causing any extra work on a day that we are already stretched thin.   And it would absolutely be extra work.   Seeming how we are the ones who have been doing it we kind of have a better grasp of how it all works behind the scenes.


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[Chris Nelson]

I would budge on doing it for this year.

But if it blows up and makes Sunday more stressful then it needs to be for the people running the event,  it’ll be canned for another 20 years


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[Foomin Z]

Just a few more thoughts from overnight.

I have seen people get into the Finals and then leave since the big game didn't really matter for them at that point due to the placements.  Getting home sounded better and was more important to them.  Offering the award for the top run in Finals might have kept them there.

It would be interesting to see the actual numbers regarding how often someone in 5th or 6th place makes it into the top 3.   I bet it's relatively rare due to the spreads.  Kinda like when you take enough courses in college, it's very hard to move your GPA upward due to the inertia from what was built before.  Again, an award for the Top Run in Finals gives that person a chance at some kind of glory.

Robin

Not NADAC, but I have had a dog win a regional even though all her individual runs were anywhere from 3rd-5th place. The cumulative scoring worked to her favor somehow.

A "best individual finals run, X-height" is an interesting award. It might keep more people from going home early.

[Marcy Matties]

I agree with Karissa that the percentage of dogs going into the final run would need to be less than it is now. I actually think there are too many dogs in the final run already.  It seems like years ago it was maybe the top 10 or 15 percent.  Either way with less dogs in the finals more people might actually stick around to watch the runs and the awards. 

Gina Pizzo

I think less dogs in the finals would mean LESS people sticking around to watch.  As it is many people who travel long distances take the option to get a jump start on their way home when they or their friends aren't in the finals.  So less dogs in finals would probably mean more handlers and their non-finals friends would start heading home...

[RobertStewart]

I'd vote for keep it the way it is!

[ricbonner]

I'm pretty biased on this, as my current Champs qualifying dog's biggest strength is his reliability and consistency.  But I like it the way it is.  In a head to head single run, my boy Cody normally wont match the speed of a lot of dogs at Champs, especially finalists.  But over 6 or 7 or 8 runs combined, his consistency and reliability comes to bear, and that's how he made the finals.  If finals were run with a clean scoring slate, that would basically negate his best attribute.  I like that NADAC places value in an efficient line and a reliable performance as well as speed.

Fast dogs do well.
Reliable dogs do well.
Fast and Reliable dogs do very well.

[agilityaddict2]

I actually agree that finals should be scored independent of the other rounds. I don't think it negates clean runs and consistency. The reward for that is getting into finals. To me if 15 (or whatever the 33% would be) dogs are in finals and only 3 or 4 have a real shot at winning, it's definitely anticlimatic.

[Chris Nelson]

But are we really aiming for entertainment?

Is the goal of championships to be a climatic experience, or is the goal to find the best dog?

If we’re trying to make it a cinematic event there are a lot of things that could be changed that would help that.
But is that really going to be highlighting which dog is the best?

Our criteria is different than most other venues.  We place value on consistency.   Whether that is correct or not is personal opinion, but that is what we value.

I’m split either way.    I want the best dog to win, the best dog who was ‘there’ all week long.   

But I also want to keep it exciting.

So there needs to be a balance


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[Marcy Matties]

But are we really aiming for entertainment?

Is the goal of championships to be a climatic experience, or is the goal to find the best dog?

If we’re trying to make it a cinematic event there are a lot of things that could be changed that would help that.
But is that really going to be highlighting which dog is the best?

Our criteria is different than most other venues.  We place value on consistency.   Whether that is correct or not is personal opinion, but that is what we value.

I’m split either way.    I want the best dog to win, the best dog who was ‘there’ all week long.   

But I also want to keep it exciting.

So there needs to be a balance


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Just my two cents - but I think the Finals IS exciting no matter which dog is running and how high up they are in the points food chain.  How they finish overall is just icing on the cake to be enjoyed at the awards ceremony.  I'm certain I did not sit in the stands and have a clue who was in 1st-5th or any other spot unless maybe it was a teammate and they had kept track.  I just wanted to watch and cheer all of them tackle the finals course.  Consistency is NOT overrated.

[Carole & Pat Daggett]

Several people have said it takes consistency to get into finals. Not true! Regional winners are in the finals. They could have a bad week and, if all that mattered was the last run they could be the Champion.

Pat Daggett

[Sharon Nelson]

Here is my input:

In the past, the rounds were based on other NADAC classes........ a Weavers round with extra weaves, a Jumpers round with no hoops and many directional challenges with jumps, a tunnel heavy round, a Touch N Go round with extra contacts, etc..............

With that format I think it was very important to make the scoring an accumulation of ALL rounds, as you gave the advantage to the NADAC dog that was well versed in all classes.

If the first seven rounds are all more "Regular" based rounds, then I would see the benefit of leaving it like it is or going to clean slate without a strong  lean in either direction.

So if it is put to a vote, I personally would want to know what the "types" of courses will be used in the first seven rounds, as that could have an affect upon a voting decision.