Scoring Finals at Champs

[Cathie Cage]

I think there should be no changes this year!!! It would not be fair to change what is already listed in the 2019 info sheet for champs at this late date. I think it should be revisited after champs. I think we should see how the change of eliminating a run on Sunday affects what time we get done.

Oh we wouldn't do anything for this year that changes the schedule.

This would all be for 2020.

The only thing that we can decide for this year is whether the finals round gets ribbons for placements.     Or an award for a clean slate type of deal.

But option 3 isn't anything we could do this year, cause we won't mess with the published schedule.

I think there should be no changes this year!!! It would not be fair to change what is already listed in the 2019 info sheet for champs at this late date. I think it should be revisited after champs. I think we should see how the change of eliminating a run on Sunday affects what time we get done.

Oh we wouldn't do anything for this year that changes the schedule.

This would all be for 2020.

The only thing that we can decide for this year is whether the finals round gets ribbons for placements.     Or an award for a clean slate type of deal.

But option 3 isn't anything we could do this year, cause we won't mess with the published schedule.

Thanks Chris for clarifying! I didn't see anything posted as to when this may occur.

[ljahans]

Do I understand correctly that regional winners have won the golden ticket to go into the finals, but arrive with no chance to win or place unless the clean slate option is chosen?


Thanks
LeeAnn

[knittingdog]

Do I understand correctly that regional winners have won the golden ticket to go into the finals, but arrive with no chance to win or place unless the clean slate option is chosen?


Thanks
LeeAnn

AS it stands now, the only way a Regional winner can win the entire event is if they were already at the top anyway since the scoring is cummulative.  They get to run in Finals, but if they are 200 points behind the top dog at the end of the other rounds, then there really isn't a chance they can win.

Robin

[knittingdog]

Personally, I like option 3 the best.

Finals gets fewer dogs running in it, which is good for the running of the event.

The dogs running in Challengers still get a fair shot at winning something prestigious, even if they have completely bombed the whole week.    And everyone in Challengers runs like their whole week depends on it, because it sorta does

I like this option, but I have some questions - who runs in the Challengers round?  Would that be the last round before finals?  Would it be only the top 33%?  Winning the Regional gets you into the Challengers round or Finals?

Robin

[Chris Nelson]

Personally, I like option 3 the best.

Finals gets fewer dogs running in it, which is good for the running of the event.

The dogs running in Challengers still get a fair shot at winning something prestigious, even if they have completely bombed the whole week.    And everyone in Challengers runs like their whole week depends on it, because it sorta does

I like this option, but I have some questions - who runs in the Challengers round?  Would that be the last round before finals?  Would it be only the top 33%?  Winning the Regional gets you into the Challengers round or Finals?

Robin

We couldn’t do it this year because we’ve already published that we’re doing 7 rounds.

But, for next year it would be open to anyone who didn’t make finals.   Whatever that number may be.

Option #2 is the best one for making regionals a more prestigious affair.


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[ljahans]

So option 2 then means a regional winner gets a bye into the challengers run ?


LeeAnn

[Chris Nelson]

So option 2 then means a regional winner gets a bye into the challengers run ?


LeeAnn

No.

The challengers is for option #3.

If we went that route the regional winners would still get to run in finals.   If they aren’t within placement levels it won’t really do much besides that run though.

I suppose people could always opt into challengers instead of finals if they wanted, if they knew they weren’t within range of placing


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[Linda W. Anderson]

Is there no option to keep things as they are and just reduce the number of dogs running in the finals?  I'm still confused.
Linda

[KellyDittmar]

One of the things I'd always loved about NADAC & Champs (either from being there or living thru friends) is how inclusive it was. How you could make it to finals and have this shot to be on the center stage for those 45 seconds while some stranger in the stands held their breathe and willed you forward from the edge of their seat and then screamed for you when you finished. Even though you couldn't win. Even though you wouldn't be taking home a big ribbon. It was like qualifying for the Olympics and being to take your mark with Lindsey Vonn. You know you've got no shot to beat her. Her skills and her speed are just better. She trains harder. She takes the risks that you won't. Whatever. It doesn't matter. It's just an honor to have made that final cutoff and be able to take the course with her. I wish everyone in the world could have that experience at least once.

So it's disappointing to me that there's no option to remain the same - but as pointed out already, change is a part of life. And maybe structuring our trials so we have the important regional events like they do at USDAA and the challengers to finals rounds like they do at NAC will encourage people to come play with us. I guess time will tell!  

[Marcy Matties]

One of the things I'd always loved about NADAC & Champs (either from being there or living thru friends) is how inclusive it was. How you could make it to finals and have this shot to be on the center stage for those 45 seconds while some stranger in the stands held their breathe and willed you forward from the edge of their seat and then screamed for you when you finished. Even though you couldn't win. Even though you wouldn't be taking home a big ribbon. It was like qualifying for the Olympics and being to take your mark with Lindsey Vonn. You know you've got no shot to beat her. Her skills and her speed are just better. She trains harder. She takes the risks that you won't. Whatever. It doesn't matter. It's just an honor to have made that final cutoff and be able to take the course with her. I wish everyone in the world could have that experience at least once.

So it's disappointing to me that there's no option to remain the same - but as pointed out already, change is a part of life. And maybe structuring our trials so we have the important regional events like they do at USDAA and the challengers to finals rounds like they do at NAC will encourage people to come play with us. I guess time will tell!

Completely agree.  Love the Olympics analogy.  I'm pretty sure those track stars or bobsledders from obscure countries don't think "Well, I don't have a shot at winning - so why even go compete?"  Pretty sure they think the experience is worth every ounce of effort and countless hours that they have put in just to get there.

[Linda W. Anderson]

One of the things I'd always loved about NADAC & Champs (either from being there or living thru friends) is how inclusive it was. How you could make it to finals and have this shot to be on the center stage for those 45 seconds while some stranger in the stands held their breathe and willed you forward from the edge of their seat and then screamed for you when you finished. Even though you couldn't win. Even though you wouldn't be taking home a big ribbon. It was like qualifying for the Olympics and being to take your mark with Lindsey Vonn. You know you've got no shot to beat her. Her skills and her speed are just better. She trains harder. She takes the risks that you won't. Whatever. It doesn't matter. It's just an honor to have made that final cutoff and be able to take the course with her. I wish everyone in the world could have that experience at least once.

So it's disappointing to me that there's no option to remain the same - but as pointed out already, change is a part of life. And maybe structuring our trials so we have the important regional events like they do at USDAA and the challengers to finals rounds like they do at NAC will encourage people to come play with us. I guess time will tell!

Love this post!  I still remember the first time one of my dogs and I were called to be in the finals.  It was a very big thrill.  I knew my competition was much stronger than we were, but just being able to run that course with my partner made all the training and expense worth it.

Also, it seems by reading these posts that there are many who would like an option to vote for finals to remain the same.  As it is, those of us who like things the way they are don't seem to be getting a vote.  IMHO
Linda

[Audri, Cee Cee, Lily, Toto, and Calypso]

One of the things I'd always loved about NADAC & Champs (either from being there or living thru friends) is how inclusive it was. How you could make it to finals and have this shot to be on the center stage for those 45 seconds while some stranger in the stands held their breathe and willed you forward from the edge of their seat and then screamed for you when you finished. Even though you couldn't win. Even though you wouldn't be taking home a big ribbon. It was like qualifying for the Olympics and being to take your mark with Lindsey Vonn. You know you've got no shot to beat her. Her skills and her speed are just better. She trains harder. She takes the risks that you won't. Whatever. It doesn't matter. It's just an honor to have made that final cutoff and be able to take the course with her. I wish everyone in the world could have that experience at least once.

So it's disappointing to me that there's no option to remain the same - but as pointed out already, change is a part of life. And maybe structuring our trials so we have the important regional events like they do at USDAA and the challengers to finals rounds like they do at NAC will encourage people to come play with us. I guess time will tell!

I completely agree with this!  The same people tend to win finals year in and year out.  It is just  how it is.  They have more time to train, better skills, better dogs, whatever.....  I don't begrudge them at all, it is the way it is, but I also think that people underestimate the thrill that us mere mortals have of just making finals.  I was soooo close in 2017 but had an off course in run 7....  I would have been over the moon to have made it and just been out there for the final rounds

I also think that cutting out run 7 would be a big disappointment to those of us who don't make finals.  I know that it would cut the Sunday time down, but I also think that if you cut it out, most people who aren't in finals would cut and run on Saturday after their final run.  Why pay for an extra night in a hotel, extra meals and a long day on Sunday when you have to return to work on Monday, if you can get out on Saturday and sleep in your own bed?   Besides, I pay a lot to be there and cutting a run makes me think about it a bit more.  This year, I am paying $300.00 for each of my dogs for 7 runs.  That is almost $43.00 per run.  You cut a run out, and now it is up to $50.00 per run.....  I know it isn't always about the money, but for those of us who don't make finals, and lets be realistic, that is 75% of the competitors, you are cutting out an extra run in a very special event.

[KellyDittmar]

I also think that cutting out run 7 would be a big disappointment to those of us who don't make finals.  I know that it would cut the Sunday time down, but I also think that if you cut it out, most people who aren't in finals would cut and run on Saturday after their final run.  Why pay for an extra night in a hotel, extra meals and a long day on Sunday when you have to return to work on Monday, if you can get out on Saturday and sleep in your own bed?   Besides, I pay a lot to be there and cutting a run makes me think about it a bit more.  This year, I am paying $300.00 for each of my dogs for 7 runs.  That is almost $43.00 per run.  You cut a run out, and now it is up to $50.00 per run.....  I know it isn't always about the money, but for those of us who don't make finals, and lets be realistic, that is 75% of the competitors, you are cutting out an extra run in a very special event.

I think that's already been done... this year your entry fee guarantees you only 6 runs unless you a) win at regionals or b) make finals at the event. I guess on sunday AM they are running a team event before the finals instead of having another round for everyone. (Someone - please correct me if I have understood that wrong, which is of course possible!)

But of course - your hotel will already be paid for for the night, so you probably won't get any savings there... but you could certainly get home to your life earlier... which I expect a lot of people who live close to do - and I'd expect people who are working and live farther to take advantage of the extra travel day over the weekend and cut and run if they don't make it. Maybe they don't leave on saturday night, but I'd expect them to leave on sunday AM instead.

[Amy McGovern]

Love this post!  I still remember the first time one of my dogs and I were called to be in the finals.  It was a very big thrill.  I knew my competition was much stronger than we were, but just being able to run that course with my partner made all the training and expense worth it.

Also, it seems by reading these posts that there are many who would like an option to vote for finals to remain the same.  As it is, those of us who like things the way they are don't seem to be getting a vote.  IMHO
Linda
[/quote]

One of the options is simply to allow placement ribbons for the finals round.  That is a small change.  It literally is the ONLY run in NADAC that we do all year that you can't get ribbons for.  It also happens to be potentially the hardest and most stressful run all year.  I personally am in favor of this small change.  Just a self-serve placement ribbon... Something for the memories.

[Audri, Cee Cee, Lily, Toto, and Calypso]

[/quote]But of course - your hotel will already be paid for for the night, so you probably won't get any savings there... but you could certainly get home to your life earlier... which I expect a lot of people who live close to do - and I'd expect people who are working and live farther to take advantage of the extra travel day over the weekend and cut and run if they don't make it. Maybe they don't leave on saturday night, but I'd expect them to leave on sunday AM instead.
[/quote]

The hotel isn't already paid for.  You can check out on Saturday morning if you know there is no hope of making the finals.  They don't charge you until you check out and if you check out before their required time (usually 6pm to cancel reservations or noon for check out) then you wouldn't be charged for that day.  Or  you don't have to make the reservation for Saturday night at all and then as the week progresses, if you have the chance to make it, you can just extend your stay on Saturday during the day. 

Since it is only 6 runs this year, that is what I will probably do.  I won't spend the money to stay over on Saturday night if I don't get to run on Sunday.  It is a waste of money for me and will get home a day early.