Author Topic: price increase?  (Read 2046 times)

BeckyAH

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Re: price increase?
« Reply #30 on: June 01, 2019, 04:01:59 PM »
Your $1125/day scenario neglects (most trials are 2 days): Judge Flight typically $3-400, most stay in hotels $200-$300+, Judges food $50-$80, typical Site fees $500 -$800/day (whether rented or mortgaged) , taxes $400minimum/day (based on $1125), club ribbons/awards $100-$200+, gas $100+, Many judges are charging commuting mileage $40, judges airport parking $50-$80, trial food $100
Even prorated over 2 days $1125- $1400= ~ $300 minimum LOSS.  This does not even begin to account for time, equipment replacement, trailer, print cartridges ($30-$50/trial), ...

A lot of clubs are barely meeting minimums too and already running tight on cash.

This increase will hurt A Lot of clubs and Exhibitors.

Ed Scharringhausen

None of that is increasing with the us.

So if clubs are affording it now, then our price increase doesn't affect that.

If the clubs raise their prices by $1 then everything comes out square.

If clubs don't raise by a $1, then yes things are going to hurt.  But that is a clubs decision to make.
I don't think you are taking into account average exhibitor (at least in my area) has X amount of money to spend on entries, travel expenses,  etc. per trial.  If entry fees go up they will still spend the same amount of money which equals out to fewer runs and less income for the club.  Or they will enter fewer trials which will hurt both clubs and NADAC. 
Linda Anderson

Bingo.

I'm not fussing about it - I know prices have to go up.

I try REALLY hard to support the clubs closest to me, but I've got what I've got for agility.  There is no way I can spend more.  I"ll still give what I have to the local folks, but.  One more dollar a run, across three dogs, and 2-3 trials some months?  I really can't do it.  I'd like to!  And I am grateful for opportunities to work in exchange for some entries (thanks!)  but the money I have is the money I have.  So I *can't* support the club with any more collars than I already do.  Which sucks.   If I can in the future I will, but meanwhile -

Bingo.

Karen Echternacht

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Re: price increase?
« Reply #31 on: June 01, 2019, 04:32:15 PM »
My concern is not the $1 a run increase - exhibitors will pay that.  My concern is that the increase from $200-$300 only affects the small trials that are clearly already struggling.  The larger trials are already paying over the minimum per day to the judge.  The affected trials will only be the ones  doing fewer than 300 runs per day - and struggling. 

Perhaps there are other solutions rather than to raise daily minimum judge fees?
« Last Edit: June 01, 2019, 04:48:29 PM by Karen Echternacht »

Lisa Schmit In The Zone Agility

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Re: price increase?
« Reply #32 on: June 02, 2019, 06:24:01 AM »
I agree Karen.

The $300 increase will hurt smaller trials.  I wouldnt feel so apprehensive if the daily minimum weren't going up too.....
« Last Edit: June 02, 2019, 07:28:07 AM by Lisa Schmit In The Zone Agility »
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Chris Nelson

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Re: price increase?
« Reply #33 on: June 02, 2019, 03:07:14 PM »
I agree Karen.

The $300 increase will hurt smaller trials.  I wouldnt feel so apprehensive if the daily minimum weren't going up too.....

Guys, do the math.   I already did it once.

Assuming you raise your prices by $1 per run.   You're losing at most, $25 because of the price increase.   This isn't $300.  Not even close.

And, everyone seems to keep ignoring the fact the NADAC drops, or even completely eliminates fees on trials that aren't making the club money.   A feature that multiple people in this thread have taken advantage of.


KellyDittmar

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Re: price increase?
« Reply #34 on: June 03, 2019, 04:05:44 AM »
And, everyone seems to keep ignoring the fact the NADAC drops, or even completely eliminates fees on trials that aren't making the club money.   A feature that multiple people in this thread have taken advantage of.

Chris - I'm not ignoring this at all. But I do recall that you mentioned this isn't good for every single trial a club puts on - so those smaller clubs can get some relief, but overall economics are a big concern.

Additionally - I'm alert to the requirements of the program which indicate limits on the overall spend for the trial. That means some folks are going to be disqualified from the get go either because their location is too costly - they wanted to support a judge who was more costly to fly in or one that had to stay for an extra night (incurring additional fees) - they pay vouchers/discounts to committee & course builders & ring workers - or whatever else. Yes, you need a cap. Yes, it can't be a free for all. And yes, it means some groups immediately don't qualify for it & therefore it falls off the table when discussing concerns around economics.

(Also note that I'm not complaining about this. It's a great program that works for many clubs and small businesses. Just sharing some thoughts that others may be having.)

Kelly
« Last Edit: June 03, 2019, 06:40:58 AM by KellyDittmar »
Kelly Dittmar
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Chris Nelson

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Re: price increase?
« Reply #35 on: June 04, 2019, 09:49:02 AM »
And, everyone seems to keep ignoring the fact the NADAC drops, or even completely eliminates fees on trials that aren't making the club money.   A feature that multiple people in this thread have taken advantage of.

Chris - I'm not ignoring this at all. But I do recall that you mentioned this isn't good for every single trial a club puts on - so those smaller clubs can get some relief, but overall economics are a big concern.

Additionally - I'm alert to the requirements of the program which indicate limits on the overall spend for the trial. That means some folks are going to be disqualified from the get go either because their location is too costly - they wanted to support a judge who was more costly to fly in or one that had to stay for an extra night (incurring additional fees) - they pay vouchers/discounts to committee & course builders & ring workers - or whatever else. Yes, you need a cap. Yes, it can't be a free for all. And yes, it means some groups immediately don't qualify for it & therefore it falls off the table when discussing concerns around economics.

(Also note that I'm not complaining about this. It's a great program that works for many clubs and small businesses. Just sharing some thoughts that others may be having.)

Kelly

The caps are incredibly high.
The facility cap is $900 per day.     The most expensive facility I use is that price, and it's air conditioned with turf.
A very nice covered arena, in Los Angeles costs me around $600 per day.    So the facility cap isn't disqualifying anybody.   

And here's the kicker.   If a club is at a point where they are losing money, they shouldn't be renting out a facility that costs more than $900 per day.    Low entries suck, but when that happens you don't double down and start spending MORE money.

I have trials that barely break 100 runs a day in certain parts of the country that I host myself.    Because of this I use facilities that are cheaper for me to rent, I can't offer free lunches like I normally would, and I do EVERY single part of the trial secretary and office duties myself so that I don't have to give free entries to anyone.

The cap for a judges flight is $600.     If you're paying more than $600 for your judge then you're bringing in someone from across the country.   Which again, isn't needed especially if you're worried about losing money.   You bring in someone from the same coast as your club, and you book the flight in advance so it costs a normal amount, which is usually around $400-500.

We allow $130 per night for a judges hotel.   That is staying in a nice place, well above what most of our judges are normally put in.

We allow $500 in discounted or free entries for trial crew, well above what any struggling club should be offering.   

We also allow $150 per day for food for workers.   Again, well above normal costs.


It comes down to the fact that if you have 150 runs per day, and you're going above all of the above limits, that is now a personal business choice.

In regards to the price increase, if we waived recording fees for a club that was going to be losing money, with the new price increase they would actually be making more money than they currently do.
________________________________
$10 per run
150 runs

$1500 income
$150 to the judge
Waived fee to NADAC

$1350 to the club before trial expenses.
________________________________

$11 per run
150 runs

$1650 income
$225 to the judge
waived fees to NADAC

$1425 income before trial expenses.
________________________________

So no, I'm not worried in the slightest about clubs losing money.