scoring question

[Amy McGovern]

I thought I understood champs scoring but now my JH and I were discussing it today and we have a question.  If everyone starts from some number of points (I think it was 160 last year) and then you are scored (points - time - faults), how do you compare scores across heights for items that matter overall?  I'm assuming I'm missing something!  Does the starting point value differ for each height class?  That would make sense to me but I don't remember seeing that last year.  For example (the discussion was very specific to this today): for the overall JH awards (there are 2 that I know of), there are 6 JHs in elite this year, 2 per height class.  How do you compare scores from a small dog and a big dog if their times just can be radically different by the nature of the dog?  I'm sure this is solved.  I just clearly am missing something in my understanding of the scoring Thanks!!

[Marcy Matties]

I thought I understood champs scoring but now my JH and I were discussing it today and we have a question.  If everyone starts from some number of points (I think it was 160 last year) and then you are scored (points - time - faults), how do you compare scores across heights for items that matter overall?  I'm assuming I'm missing something!  Does the starting point value differ for each height class?  That would make sense to me but I don't remember seeing that last year.  For example (the discussion was very specific to this today): for the overall JH awards (there are 2 that I know of), there are 6 JHs in elite this year, 2 per height class.  How do you compare scores from a small dog and a big dog if their times just can be radically different by the nature of the dog?  I'm sure this is solved.  I just clearly am missing something in my understanding of the scoring Thanks!!

I don't know the specific answer to the JH Champs question.  But from what I've seen over the years - the time difference between a fast "big dog" and a fast "small dog" is frequently minimal at best.  Just check the YPS at a normal weekend trial and you'll see some of the fastest #s are from dogs jumping 4" or 8".  If they are fast, clean, efficient dogs they often take top spot in the YDS category.

[Amy McGovern]

I thought I understood champs scoring but now my JH and I were discussing it today and we have a question.  If everyone starts from some number of points (I think it was 160 last year) and then you are scored (points - time - faults), how do you compare scores across heights for items that matter overall?  I'm assuming I'm missing something!  Does the starting point value differ for each height class?  That would make sense to me but I don't remember seeing that last year.  For example (the discussion was very specific to this today): for the overall JH awards (there are 2 that I know of), there are 6 JHs in elite this year, 2 per height class.  How do you compare scores from a small dog and a big dog if their times just can be radically different by the nature of the dog?  I'm sure this is solved.  I just clearly am missing something in my understanding of the scoring Thanks!!

I don't know the specific answer to the JH Champs question.  But from what I've seen over the years - the time difference between a fast "big dog" and a fast "small dog" is frequently minimal at best.  Just check the YPS at a normal weekend trial and you'll see some of the fastest #s are from dogs jumping 4" or 8".  If they are fast, clean, efficient dogs they often take top spot in the YDS category.

Some fast dogs are fast in YDS.  But if you compare my (very fast!) small dog to a BC who gets their run clean and fast also?  No contest.  The BC will win.  Schnauzer legs simply don't run as fast as a BC.  I'm just asking how scoring works for champs

[Chris Nelson]

It doesn't matter because those dogs aren't compared.

That's why we have the height groups.

The Large-JH group and the Small-JH group will never be scored against each other.    Only within their same group.

The base score doesn't change by height.

Which is why you'll frequently see the 16 inch dogs getting scores in the high 110's, while the smaller dogs normally have high scores in the high 100's.    But since those two aren't compared to each other for the main event scoring, it doesn't matter.     

[Vicki Storrs]

EXCEPT, Chris, she is talking about the jr handler award, not the dog’s placing. How the top jr handler is decided since just using the total score would be unfair to the jr with the smaller dog.
Vicki

[Amy McGovern]

Exactly what Vicki said!  The JH dogs *are* compared across heights!  And this year there are 6 of them, 2 in each height category.  Since mine is one with a small dog, he was asking how he is fairly compared against the ones with the big dogs.  I realize I could have asked this last year but last year was our first time.  And now that there are 6 of the JH, I want to know how all 6 are compared fairly against each other.  All 6 of them will care about this, I imagine,  From what you are saying just now, the bigger dogs will automatically have an advantage.  Unless you are planning a top JH by height?  In which case, then I will understand!

[bettyj.carter]

Same theory for teams...small dogs will get fewer points.

[Vicki Storrs]

Yeah but I think of teams as more a fun catagory...i’ve Yet to see someone on the forum asking for the fastest, most consistent teammates only to apply to be on their team LOL While top Jr is a bit of a bragging right...
Vicki

[Chris Nelson]

Highest Scoring Junior Handler is a Sponsor bar, NOT an award given out by NADAC.

And it wasn't sponsored this year.

Neither was Most Inspirational Junior Handler.

The discrepancy in the dogs points is why NADAC doesn't do those awards.    Because it's too subjective.   Like a lot of the sponsor bars, which aren't black and white.  They have to be sponsored by someone, but you'll never see NADAC doing them automatically.

If NADAC did sponsor highest scoring junior handlers it would be within each height group.   But I would NEVER do that when there are only two dogs in each group, it's sort of pointless.   

We already split the juniors into their own height groups, which never would have been done in past years.   At a certain point there is only so many awards we can hand out

[dogrsqr]

Chris you do have the highest scoring JH trophy that the Minnesora Mixed Breed Club donates. 

Gina Pizzo

[Chris Nelson]

Chris you do have the highest scoring JH trophy that the Minnesora Mixed Breed Club donates. 

Gina Pizzo

There was nothing sent to me about that, Gina.

If I have it, I definitely do NOT have it.   As nothing was ever sent.

Again for those reading though, this is still a Sponsor award by someone other than NADAC.     If MMBC didn't sponsor it, NADAC wouldn't be doing it.   Because the scoring is a bit murky when going across different divisions.

[dogrsqr]

Chris we will continue to bring it every year unless we're told otherwise.  After this many years we are on autopilot.

Gina

[Chris Nelson]

Chris we will continue to bring it every year unless we're told otherwise.  After this many years we are on autopilot.

Gina

[Amy McGovern]

Highest Scoring Junior Handler is a Sponsor bar, NOT an award given out by NADAC.

And it wasn't sponsored this year.

Neither was Most Inspirational Junior Handler.

The discrepancy in the dogs points is why NADAC doesn't do those awards.    Because it's too subjective.   Like a lot of the sponsor bars, which aren't black and white.  They have to be sponsored by someone, but you'll never see NADAC doing them automatically.

If NADAC did sponsor highest scoring junior handlers it would be within each height group.   But I would NEVER do that when there are only two dogs in each group, it's sort of pointless.   

We already split the juniors into their own height groups, which never would have been done in past years.   At a certain point there is only so many awards we can hand out

That totally makes sense.  However, 2nd highest scoring *was* sponsored.  I knew that 1st always was already sponsored with the giant trophy.  Given the number of JHs coming this year and the fact that 2nd highest was on the list, I sponsored it figuring one of the 6 kids would be happy to go home with it.  It will be pretty odd if 2nd highest scoring goes home with an award and highest doesn't!  I was only trying to help (since there were so many more JH this year) and then my own JH started asking me about scoring and then I posted So maybe we need to chat?  Maybe that bar should be renamed to something else??  I sponsored a bunch of bars this year actually and now I'm a bit worried that some of them didn't show up.  I have receipts for all of them!

[Chris Nelson]

2nd highest scoring is in there.   Along with the others