NADAC Forum

General => General Discussion => Topic started by: Destiny on September 11, 2013, 02:12:49 PM

Title: Why NADAC?
Post by: Destiny on September 11, 2013, 02:12:49 PM
I am new here, and I have just decided that I am going to be competing in NADAC with my German Shepherd Dog, Border Collie, and my Doberman Pinscher.

The reason why I'm going with NADAC is not only does it look fun, but it's the closest agility trial to me. Which, these trials are held in Texas and I'm in Louisiana. Which is okay of course, because I have family and friends all through out Texas where the trials are being held. So it works out great! I am also a little curious as to why there are no teeters, tables, tire jumps, and only the dog walk and a-frame in NADAC (for the contacts)?


Anyways, I'm curious...Why did you choose NADAC??
Title: Why NADAC?
Post by: ampezz on September 11, 2013, 05:54:03 PM
First reason - when I started mixed breed dogs were accepted in NADAC but not in another venue that runs locally. I was new and had no idea the difference between venues like I do now, so that was reason number one because my dogs are mixed breed rescues.  Why I stay - love NADAC purpose and mission. Love that safety is put first. Love that veteran dogs and handlers are accepted and encouraged. Love watching distance work. Love the emphasis on team.  Trials are fun and relaxed, and you get more runs for your buck. Love the helpful attitude of handlers, judges, and other NADAC folks. Love the emphasis on team success and not competition - although there is a level of competition involved, its not cut throat. Love the supportive attitude, which has been an inspirational life changer for me. And lastly, my favorite color is purple.

Great question!  I don't post on the forum a lot but felt a strong need to respond to this question, as I am frequently defending NADAC in my area, due to another venue having a large and aged presence. Welcome!
Title: Re: Why NADAC?
Post by: Audri, Cee Cee, Lily, Toto, and Calypso on September 11, 2013, 05:58:46 PM
I kind of fell into NADAC.  The club that I began training with was a NADAC club.  At the time, I didn't even know that there were different types of agility.  After I began competing, I stuck with NADAC because I liked the style of the runs without a lot of tight turns.  I also like the variety of the games even if my dogs don't always do well in them.  Mostly, I like the people.  I have never met a group of more supportive people.  Even though we compete against each other, we are all there for the same reason--to have fun with our dogs.  I have never had anyone say a negative comment to me even after a "bad" run.  The judges are NOT "stuffy" or stand-offish at all.  They are friendly and supportive.  Most congratulate you on good runs and will happily talk to you if there is time.  I was at a trial last weekend and there was an event that is relatively new to our area.  The judge took plenty of time to explain the rules of the game to everyone.  He also congratulated each and every competitor on the run as they came off the field.  Everyone left with a very positive feeling regardless of the outcome.
Title: Re: Why NADAC?
Post by: stacey s on September 11, 2013, 06:26:19 PM
Why NADAC?

NADAC is the only venue in which I choose to compete in dog agility.

In the past, at the beginning of my joining the sport, I competed in AKC and NADAC and dabbled in some other venues.

It has been my experience, and I started showing my dogs in 1996, that the people and the atmosphere at NADAC events everywhere is fun and the focus is positive. 

Most competitors in my area of the country are a very supportive group of people, no matter what venue.  In other areas, I have experienced cut throat competitors who were extremely negative and did not really seem to care about their dog's experience.

NADAC competitors from any part of the country are such a great group of people.  NADAC as an organization is focused on safe fun for the human and canine member of the agility team.  I really appreciate the safe part of the equation.  I want my dogs to be happy and competing in agility into the ages that most other venues competitors are retired. 

I also choose to compete in NADAC because it is the only venue that recognizes distance handling and has awards that acknowledge that training committment.  It is called the Bonus Program.  I am addicted to this aspect of agility and it has become my passion.

Thanks Sharon Nelson and all the other people in the organization  who have made NADAC what it is now.  Like I said, I only compete in one venue and NADAC is it for me.


Stacey Sullivan

Title: Re: Why NADAC?
Post by: LeeAnne McAdam on September 11, 2013, 07:19:04 PM
For me it's the emphasis on safety for the dogs and the atmosphere at the trials I attend.  I have done a couple other venues in the past, but I am NADAC only now even though that means we have to travel a bit more.  I feel like here I have the most options to make decisions I feel are in my dogs' best interest.  I want to be the best I can be, but I mostly want to have fun with my dogs, and although we are often surrounded by some serious talent, we are rarely confronted with serious attitudes.
 
I love that we can go to trials where people will actually go out of their way to accommodate others and where everyone appreciates not only the good runs but also what sometimes turns out to be only a good effort.  If you want it, you can find lots of opportunities to get help from the top people in the sport, from Sharon or whomever you like, and they all really want to see you succeed.   

I guess it comes down to best for my dogs, supportive atmosphere and fun!  Oh, yeah...and I get to run a lot!  So welcome, Destiny.  I hope you end up loving NADAC and getting as much out of it as I do!
Title: Re: Why NADAC?
Post by: Heidi Konesko on September 11, 2013, 07:26:27 PM
I used to do two other venues as well as NADAC.  When I got into the highest level in each with my first agility dog it was really obvious that she liked the flowing NADAC courses much better than the tight, twisty courses in the other venues.  It took me a couple of years to realize that, but eventually I clued in.  At the same time the number of NADAC trials increased in my area, so it was an easy decision to make.  And then with my next dogs I wanted them to have the same type of courses to run.  And then I really got to like training for distance sequences. 
Title: Re: Why NADAC?
Post by: Destiny on September 11, 2013, 11:02:59 PM
I too really like how my un-registered dog can enter NADAC trials and such! I am so, so, so, anxious to trial with dogs' that I could cry. Ha ha ha!
Title: Re: Why NADAC?
Post by: Linda W. Anderson on September 12, 2013, 06:15:01 AM
Simple - my dogs like NADAC best!  (for all the reasons already stated)
Linda
Title: Re: Why NADAC?
Post by: Janice_Shavor on September 12, 2013, 06:28:18 AM
In my area, north Alabama, we had no local NADAC trials until maybe 1999.  Even then, I remember coming off the course with my dog and ALWAYS saying "That was fun".

Then I started agility with my 3rd Corgi.  She was my humility girl.  What do you mean I cannot get her to sit or down on the table!!!  Then I noticed that on a NADAC course, she knew by the 3 obstacle which venue she was running and looked at me with that big silly corgi grin and kicked in the afterburners just for fun.

She decided my venue.  NADAC along with the other venues has changed since '99 but NADAC never changed the fun of the run.  Right now, I will do some of one other venue when it is local since the jump height is the same but since I do have to watch entry $$s and travel $$s, NADAC is my primary venue.

Love it.

Title: Re: Why NADAC?
Post by: AgilityRocks! on September 12, 2013, 07:10:31 AM
Well I had a choice between AKC and NADAC in this area.  I attended several trials before ever trialing with my dogs and the NADAC crew we have here in Montana is one of the most supportive group of folks I've ever met.  I saw a couple bonus runs one weekend and knew this was the venue for me.   8)

I feel like NADAC challenges me more distance wise than AKC ever could. I LOVE the lack of teeters and tables.  To be frank, the slatted dog walks and a-frames scare me to death.  All I see is broken toenails and toes!  I feel like my dogs are safer and I get to see friends wherever we trial.  I'm attending my first EVER champs this year and can't wait.  I'm so thankful for this venue and for the wonderful group of people I've met through it! ;D

Even if you're not ready to trial, I'd go attend one and get to know the group.  That was one of the best things I did before running my crazy coonhound.  At least when she was zooming the ring I knew I was surrounded by friends :)
Title: Re: Why NADAC?
Post by: jrbordenave on September 12, 2013, 08:16:54 AM
Hi Destiny,

I don't know the exact reasoning behind NADAC not including the teeter, tire, and table. I can tell you why I'm glad that they do not include them.

1) Upon entry the teeter and dog walk look very similar to the dog. A veteran dog will learn the command to differentiate between the two. A dog in training especially a fast one, can be in for a big surprise if they are expecting a dog walk and suddenly the apparatus drops. I prefer that the apparatus not move.

2) The opening of the tire is the same size for a Jack Russell as it is for your Doberman. I witnessed a larger dog misjudge the tire and get hung-up. Thankfully it was unharmed.

3) The table is just silly.

Those are my thoughts. I would guess by my experiences in dealing with NADAC is that they are not used because of the well-being and safety of our dogs.

Joe, Sadie & Abbey
Title: Re: Why NADAC?
Post by: DataHound on September 12, 2013, 12:16:28 PM
Destiny:

The short answer for why I compete in NADAC is because it is the best venue for my youngest dog. I started doing NADAC when my older dog received her C-ATE in CPE figuring it was time for new challenges. In addition my young dog had just started competing in CPE but would not be able to compete in CPE during the winter. At the facility where I compete, in winter two rings are running side by side at the same time. This level of noise and commotion is way too much for my young dog handle. In contrast for the NADAC trials, there is just one ring and he can handle that. Beyond just the better environment for my young dog, the style of the courses suited him better - open and flowing. The tighter courses in CPE can be demotivating. I have not run USDAA or AKC with him but as these are generally large trials in my area they probably would not be the best environment for him either. Further I would have to have him measured which would be a challenge given his fear of people. I did not have to measure him in NADAC as I entered him as Skilled. Originally I thought I would just do NADAC as a way to boost his confidence. I have stayed with NADAC because, for many reasons, it is the best place for my dog.

Sandy Taylor

Sacramento
Title: Re: Why NADAC?
Post by: bill fehn on September 12, 2013, 03:04:31 PM
I do more NADAC than any other venue, but it is not the only one. Like many others, we started in NADAC before we knew there was anything else.

The teeter and tire were removed for safety. Other organization are also concerned about the safety of the tire and some are changing to a breakaway tire.

Is the table silly? Some may think so. Not so much now, but when we started, it was my favorate obstacle. First, my dog was good at it. Don't laugh many are not. Second, if the table was somewhere in the middle of the run, it gave me five seconds to get into position to handle the second half of the course. I do distance work because I have to regardless of the venue. I find some of the courses in other venues actually more distance friendly than most NADAC courses. There are no special awards, but many of the other handlers are still amazed when I don't leave the start line or just stay in the middle of the ring.

Good luck and have fun,

Bill
Title: Re: Why NADAC?
Post by: Kathy Phelan on September 12, 2013, 04:13:22 PM
When we began agility my mini Aussie was barred from participating in AKC events so we were couldn't compete in the most available venue in our area. We were welcomed with open arms by NADAC. Unfortunately there are only 3 NADAC trials per year in our area so right away I began traveling to other states to participate in NADAC trials. Everywhere we have traveled for NADAC: Oregon, Washington, Montana, Nevada, North Dakota, Arizona and California, we have been welcomed and supported and have had wonderful experiences. My pup, Dusty, loves to run, and prefers to run at a pretty good distance from me (when I get too close she barks in protest) and boy does she bark if the course is twisty and turny.) We have participated in a few other venues: USDAA, CPE and AKC (now that they allow all dogs to play) They're pretty fun, too, but the camaraderie, support, and encouragement NADAC participants offer creates the perfect home for us. I train with AKC and USDAA competitors and will always support them and even will occasionally  play in those venues, but NADAC is the perfect fit for us and the only venue I'll travel to participate in. NADAC is all about teamwork, and the well being of the dog is front and center of the NADAC philosophy.  I'm a NADAC aficionado through and through.
Title: Re: Why NADAC?
Post by: Merri on September 12, 2013, 09:18:44 PM
NADAC was our first trial sort of by accident. It just happened to be the first up when we decided to do our first trial.
The local NADAC group is friendly and supportive. 
The judges are friendly and enthusiastic.  At our first trial, the judge asked if there was anyone new to NADAC.  She actually stopped to talk with us and encourage us.
Working more distance.  It helps build confidence in our dog and will allow my husband to run with her even with his arthritis.
The group that puts on most of our NADAC trials is well-organized and things tend to run smoothly with an eye to the people attending.
There is a variety of runs at every trial and we do not have to sit around all day for few runs.

I could probably give you a lot of reasons, all kind of deeper reasons, but it all comes down to the fact that we do NADAC because it is fun-- fun for the dog and fun for us.
Title: Re: Why NADAC?
Post by: Shirlene Clark on September 13, 2013, 03:37:33 AM
I could post an incredibly long post why NADAC for me and mine.....this reason or that reason and so forth......

For me it is simple I listened to my dog......  At the time here in Australia my 12 inch Cairn Terrier was expected to jump over 14 inches in the only venue available in Australia.  The courses took away her impulsion and she then had trouble climbing the steep  Aframe...made even worse if the pause table was the preceeding obstacle.  I struggled to keep her focus and connected with me....my goodness she was shouting at me...and it took a while for me to realise the message she was sending.   Then NADAC agility hit Australia...and once i tried it....watched my dog and really listened to her then it was simple.

I made my decision by listening to my dog and every dog since that I have owned has shown joy and happiness in performing NADAC courses.  for me it was simple and will always be simple......
Title: Re: Why NADAC?
Post by: dogrsqr on September 13, 2013, 07:45:16 AM
I started agility about 17 years ago.  There has been a tremendous amount of change in all venues since then.

First of all there were not very many agility trials back then, so most people played wherever they could.  At that time we had choices of USDAA, AKC and NADAC.  AKC didn't allow mixes and my first dog was a mix so AKC was out of the equation.  I did play some in USDAA, but back then they didn't have performance or veteran so my poor 22" dog had to jump 30".  She didn't have a problem doing it, but I felt that was a little excessive so we limited our USDAA trialing.   

NADAC grew by leaps and bounds around here back then so it quickly became our choice of venue.  I love the speed and flow of the courses.  I like that the dog in "dog agility" is the one being agile.  I like that NADAC trials have a fun, relaxed atmosphere.  I like that NADAC does require time to be a component of qualifying as well as accuracy.

Table-- sooooooo glad there is no table.  Boring ... Yawn.   Number one advantage way back when I first started. 
Teeter-- I would welcome it back with open arms, but understand the reason it went away.  Far too many people training dogs to do the teeter at great speed with no regard for the dog's body.
Tire -- to me it's just another jump.  Years ago NADAC went to a displaceable tire, but everyone whined about it because now their dog could get called for faults for dropping the tire.

Gina Pizzo
and Abbey
Title: Re: Why NADAC?
Post by: cheyaut on September 15, 2013, 03:06:19 AM
Like most (all?), when I started agility I didn't know about different venues. But the club I joined is a NADAC club. As far as I know, it was the only one in my area at the time, although there are/were others in other parts of the area, just not close (now there's multiple in this area). Anyhow, that's how I got started in NADAC.

I also was doing this with a mixed breed (a Malamute/Siberian) so AKC would've been out back then, anyhow.

My club IS a NADAC club, but we also have members that compete in the other venues, so while we focus on NADAC and hold NADAC shows, we also train for the other venues. I do enjoy having some variety now and then in class (teeter, tire, table... all of which were in NADAC when I started), but my heart is with NADAC.

I do NOT like AKC (although I'm glad they now allow mixes... and my club now has an AKC affiliation or whatever the proper terminology is... but I will not do AKC based on my own personal feelings). I've never done a USDAA trial. I don't have any ill feelings towards USDAA, but I just love NADAC so much more. I love the way the courses are. And with limited time and funds (not only do I do the dog thing, I work full time (which includes every other weekend), and I raise/train/show horses), I just stick to trialing in NADAC.

Can't say the other venues are different from personal experience (since I have none with them), but I LOVE the people in NADAC. Everyone is so friendly and helpful :)

I've also done a little ASCA. Way back when, our trials were dual sanctioned NADAC and ASCA. Now that doesn't happen. I like ASCA, but since they don't let my dog jump lower like NADAC does, I no longer do them. I personally don't feel my dog should have to jump higher than 16", so NADAC it is for us :) (I have and compete multiple dogs, but that one is my main agility guy)
Title: Re: Why NADAC?
Post by: ebgilly on October 08, 2013, 02:20:18 PM
NADAC did have teeters in the past (back when I started).  About that time the run to the end and ride it down teeter performance was becoming popular to shave seconds off time.

Sharon did a whole bunch of observations and some research and decided that a dog slamming its whole body riding the teeter was unsafe and it would be nearly impossible to judge "safe".  So teeter was removed in like 2007 or 2008.

I believe the table was removed because it really interrupts the flow of a course.

And tires are pretty unsafe too-- especially before the breakaways.

Becky Gilchrist
Title: Re: Why NADAC?
Post by: Sharon Nelson on October 08, 2013, 05:25:18 PM
NADAC did have teeters in the past (back when I started).  About that time the run to the end and ride it down teeter performance was becoming popular to shave seconds off time.

Sharon did a whole bunch of observations and some research and decided that a dog slamming its whole body riding the teeter was unsafe and it would be nearly impossible to judge "safe".  So teeter was removed in like 2007 or 2008.

I believe the table was removed because it really interrupts the flow of a course.

And tires are pretty unsafe too-- especially before the breakaways.

Becky Gilchrist

NADAC quit using the teeter until such time that all three major venues agreed upon the weight, speed and construction so that dogs would see the same type of teeter at all venues every weekend.  With the invent of slow teeters, fast teeters, lightweight teeters and heavy teeters, we wanted for dogs to work the same type of moving board at all trials.

Sharon
Title: Re: Why NADAC?
Post by: knittingdog on October 09, 2013, 06:28:42 AM

Just curious - is there ever a chance of the tire coming back to NADAC if it's a breakaway?  I know I stopped doing other venues for awhile because I kept seeing senseless tire crashes.  Everytime it happened, I would get really ticked off.  I'm really happy to see them go to breakaways.

I'm not in love with the tire or anything, but I'm just curious why a breakaway one isn't part of NADAC.

Robin, Misha, and Bullet
Title: Re: Why NADAC?
Post by: bhodges865 on October 09, 2013, 10:22:32 AM
I have ran 5 different organizations and have settled on NADAC with some CPE.  My dog runs full out so the more distance between obstacles and flowier courses works better for us.  Also, I like that we don't have refusals since this is my first agility dog.  It's very discouraging to have a near flawless run but that 1 refusal will NQ you in other organizations.  While Sharon explained why there is no teeter, I can not tell you how many times I have seen a dog fly off the teeter and get hurt...maybe because they thought it was the dog walk or just was that slow going down.

Since you are suppose to have fun with your dog, I like the games NADAC and CPE have.  After a year competing, it's kind of boring to me just running Jumpers and Standard.  And to top it all off, the distance handling to me is more impressive than if your dog can jump higher and tighter (which leads to more injuries also).  Just watch some of the videos posted on here and you'll see what I mean.

I have found the NADAC people to be competitive but still laid back and friendly.  Some other organizations, you can feel the more stuffy in the atmosphere even though I have not ran into anyone being hateful or vindictive.  ASCA and USDAA, my dog has to jump 16" even though she is on the low side of the jump height.  While she has no problems with that height, at 2.5 yrs old, she already needs massages and a chiro ever month or so.  So now I am jumping her 12" since that has less impact on her joints (she's an all muscle tank).  Also, I LOVE the fact that I don't have to sign up 3 months ahead of the trial!!!  I like being able to adjust my weekend schedule if needed either doing to or not going to a trial.

I also enjoy the fact that in the same time period for the day, I can run 6 classes in NADAC compaired to only 2 maybe 3 in AKC or USDAA!!
Title: Re: Why NADAC?
Post by: Lietzusa on October 09, 2013, 07:30:32 PM
Why NADAC?  I started because my sister was competing in it, albeit in Washington State and I was in Virginia.... 

I stayed with NADAC and only compete in NADAC because:

I love the flowing courses.  I love doing distance (with a Rat Terrier - go figure).  I love seeing double digit dogs who are still competing (because they have been running safely for many years) and I love seeing veteran handlers on course enjoying life! 

But most of all,  I absolutely love the people who love their NADAC dogs. We might be competing against each other at Champs, but we are cheering for everyone to succeed and have a great run!  We NADAC folks seem to get as big of a grin when our friends come off the course after "smoking it" as we do when we really connect with our best fuzzy faced friend on course!   We are there to celebrate the good days/runs and to commiserate when life is not as rosy as it should be. 

I always try to welcome the first timers to any trial  - people are what make NADAC fun! 

Title: Re: Why NADAC?
Post by: Vicki Storrs on October 10, 2013, 05:34:03 AM
IF I remember correctly (and that's sometimes a big if when talking about my memory :-) when I started running NADAC in 2007, the BREAKAWAY tire jump WAS on the list of possible equipment in NADAC. I never saw one on a course, though, and quite some time later someone mentioned on the yahoo list that it was no longer listed as a possible option in NADAC regulations and Sharon said no one had chosen to use it on a course in so long that it was simply dropped, with no complaints registered.  My dogs then knew how to do it, but I don't miss it at all.

Vicki Storrs
Title: Re: Why NADAC?
Post by: Billie Rosen on October 10, 2013, 09:57:03 AM
Destiny:  I compete in NADAC, AKC and USDAA, but NADAC is usually my venue of choice.  There are lots of reasons, but the primary reasons are my dogs love the courses, which are fast and flowing and logical, and I love the judges and people in NADAC.  I have never been to a NADAC trial - and I have shown in NADAC since the beginning of time, well the beginning of NADAC anyway in 1993, - and I travel all over the country and show -- where the people haven't been warm and welcomiing and fun.  Doesn't always happen in other venues.
Title: Re: Why NADAC?
Post by: DeafSheltieMom on October 10, 2013, 11:20:21 AM
I, like Shirlene, listened to my dog.  I never ran in AKC, as my deaf dog is still barred from the venue.  I do run in CPE, but Alva lets me know very quickly how demotivating it is to run a course with twisty turns and avoiding obstacles.  Mr. Trotty-boy comes out in full force on those courses.  I love the strategy games in CPE, but he'd prefer to run, run, run...  I do try to find him the flowiest course possible (which is why I still do CPE), but sometimes, that just isn't possible.  I never tried USDAA, but with his height requirement (at the time) of jumping 22", that was totally out. 

Alva tells me, on course, when he is having fun.  Early in our trialing career, he had a full-out straight run at the back of the ring.  It was probably our first time doing that...  I heard a "grrrrrr" coming from him, running at full speed (for him), and a silly-sheltie grin.  It was the first time I heard it.  I knew from that point on, NADAC was his venue.  MY DOG chose his venue.  His "grrrrrrrr"s when he is having fun is the sweetest sound I'll ever hear.  And he "grrrrrrr"s  a lot in NADAC, and particularly EGC!  I'll always be grateful for the creation of EGC... he'll never be fast, he'll probably be an Open-forever dog, but he will always have fun.  And that's really what it is all about.
-dayle
Title: Why NADAC?
Post by: James Bell on October 12, 2013, 03:59:06 PM
On the teeter, here's a crazy thought. Don't worry about the descent speeds, change the criteria. In other venues, and in NADAC when we still had them, the contacts are the same as the others, you must put at least a toenail in the contact, and in this case can't leave the contact until it's on the ground.

Change the paradigm. Shorten the contact zones, and dogs are not allowed to enter the contact until the teeter is on the ground. They must negotiate the tip before they can leave, or be faulted as blowing any other contact. Teeters are unsafe not because of the equipment as much as the crappy way people trained to drive to the end, and take the impact to the shoulders, and the variances in equipment exacerbated stupidity in training. So change the criteria and the equipment tipping variances no longer matter.
Title: Re: Why NADAC?
Post by: Leanne on October 13, 2013, 06:43:49 PM
Teeters are unsafe not because of the equipment as much as the crappy way people trained to drive to the end, and take the impact to the shoulders, and the variances in equipment exacerbated stupidity in training. So change the criteria and the equipment tipping variances no longer matter.

The problem with small dogs is that with the teeters tip points varying so much, sometimes the little 10 lb. dogs HAD to go all the way into the yellow before the board would even start to tip.  That's a long fall and a lot of impact for a dog who had only 2 choices on a teeter like that - ride it down and take the impact as the teeter hit the ground or bail and save yourself the pain :(
Title: Re: Why NADAC?
Post by: Vicki Storrs on October 13, 2013, 07:35:06 PM
On the teeter, here's a crazy thought. Don't worry about the descent speeds, change the criteria. In other venues, and in NADAC when we still had them, the contacts are the same as the others, you must put at least a toenail in the contact, and in this case can't leave the contact until it's on the ground.

Change the paradigm. Shorten the contact zones, and dogs are not allowed to enter the contact until the teeter is on the ground. They must negotiate the tip before they can leave, or be faulted as blowing any other contact. Teeters are unsafe not because of the equipment as much as the crappy way people trained to drive to the end, and take the impact to the shoulders, and the variances in equipment exacerbated stupidity in training. So change the criteria and the equipment tipping variances no longer matter.
A while back I stopped in at a non-NADAC trial (picking up some things from a vendor who was there) and just cringed repeatedly watching the dogs do the teeter--slamming down, bailing off, you name it. And the thing was, I knew some of the teams there and that is NOT how they train the obstacle, they train it the right, "safe" way.  But the dogs get to trials and get amped up...Particularly the novice dogs...and/or the handlers were sometimes not old pros themselves, and their nerves enter into it.  Yeah, the dogs And handlers will get more consistent with trial experience. But in the meantime, the damage is being done.  We have contact zones on the other obstacles and dogs still can miss them (even my Scottie has flown over a contact on occasion :-) and, yes, that isn't the performance we want or train for and there is risk there. But the risk/damage potential is so amplified on the teeter.  Saying the dog will be faulted for leaving early doesn't prevent it from happening, just like it doesn't prevent any of the other faulted performances.  The handler is "punished" with the faults, but the dog is physically punished.  I fully support NADAC's position regarding teeters, because it all boils down to the dogs and keeping them healthy and safe.
Vicki Storrs