NADAC Forum

General => General Discussion => Topic started by: Sharon Nelson on December 31, 2014, 08:07:40 PM

Title: EGC 2015
Post by: Sharon Nelson on December 31, 2014, 08:07:40 PM
Hi, group.
   We are open to input for the future of EGC.   When EGC started, it was a total separate entity from NADAC.  The scoring and judging were different and EGC was not going to be "NADAC" in the beginning.  It was a different form of agility that focused purely on handling and not on "obstacles".

    EGC was kept separate from NADAC for several years to watch it's progress and potential growth patterns.  Then EGC was integrated into NADAC and records were analyzed for the next two years.

     EGC is either loved or hated.  EGC is "different".  Because EGC doesn't have "obstacles" that dogs recognize as something to be "performed", EGC is all about the "handling" it takes to keep the dog on a correct and efficient path.  Scoring is based upon the correctness of the dog's path instead of incurring obstacle faults for not performing obstacles. 

      Once EGC became a part of the NADAC titling program, several issues arose.  People had a difficult time with the scoring since the points they received for their run was based on how correct their path was instead of how they performed obstacles.  This was a difficult concept for many to understand.  Those that understood the concept of keeping their dog on the most efficient path possible excelled in EGC and loved the challenge of the game. 

EXTREME CHANCES

      From a record keeping standpoint, I have some very clear statistics.  In NADAC, Chances is a difficult class where the dog can be sent to obstacles and are given an ample amount of time for the handler to give cues to encourage the dog to do the obstacles in the correct sequence.  Chances has always proven to be a difficult class for many due to the high level of skill needed to direct the dog through the correct number sequence.  The handler is allowed to resend, redirect and continue to use whatever cues are needed to get the dog to perform the required obstacles at a distance.  In Extreme Chances the same challenges are there but with the added requirement that the PATH the dog is taking is also being judged and faulted.  Needless to say, Extreme Chances is by far the least offered EGC class and the least successful EGC class.  In most cases Extreme Chances is offered only on full EGC days (two rounds of each EGC class in a day).    Extreme Chances if offered on a regular basis in Arizona, northern Alberta, and Southern California, but is rarely offered in other areas, unless it is an EGC trial.  In the areas where Extreme Chances is offered on a regular basis, I am sure that there are fans of Extreme Chances, but they also get an opportunity to work the class on a regular basis and that familiarity helps build popularity. 

    On a record keeping basis, Extreme Chances continues to fade more during each six month period.  We offered Extreme Chances to be added to the VT class options and we still only get rare submissions for Extreme Chances, and most of those are from the same areas that regularly offer the class.

EXTREME GATERS

    Extreme Gaters is a short, fun course that includes one of most people's favorite obstacles, the tunnels!  But the inclusion of the tunnels sometimes add an element of speed that makes it difficult to keep a clean tight path around those gates.  Since the path around the gate is being judged for efficiency, this can possibly add a level of difficulty that is quite a challenge.  One of the biggest drawbacks of Gaters is that once people started turning their dogs around barrels, it didn't seem logical to ask them to make a smooth turn around a flat gate.  When Barrelers was introduced, the entries for Gaters dropped and continues to drop.  Many people have asked for a Barrelers class that is more like Gaters without the gates and with barrels instead.  We have seen a continued increase in interest in Barrelers and a continued decrease in interest for Gaters.

    We added Extreme Gaters as an option for VT runs and it has generated minimal interest as a VT option, and most of those are from the same areas that regularly offer the class.

EXTREME BARRELERS

      Extreme Barrelers is the newest of the EGC classes.  The class is quite difficult since the path the dog is taking is judged for efficiency and the handlers must be very clear and timely in their cues to keep their dog on a very efficient path.  Yet the popularity of the class continues to grow and entries increase with each six month period.  People do enjoy the thrill of watching a dog beautifully curve around a barrel.  With the addition of the barrels in other NADAC classes, the Extreme Barrelers class continues to show an increase in popularity.  The largest input we receive about Barrelers is that people would like to see more than just barrels in the class and maybe an addition of a tunnel or two.  We continue to receive input and are making considerations for future course designs.  We will see what input we get after this post!

     With the increase of entries and the number of clubs offering Barrelers, it does appear that Barrelers is here to stay. 

EXTREME HOOPERS

     Extreme Hoopers has always been the favorite of all EGC classes are far as numbered of times being offered and number of entries.  We are now looking at new ways to safely create the "hoop circle" with another option besides the lattice gates.  The expense of the gates and the amount of storage space and weight are the two biggest factors for clubs resisting the addition of X-Hoopers.  If we can offer other lighter weight and easier storage options, then X-Hoopers would be even more popular than it currently is.  I have now built several circles from x-pens with a foam tube on top and it is working quite nicely.  They stayed up better in the wind and were easy to safely stake.  We will continue to investigate the materials for the "circle" part that would be easier for the clubs.

**************

Our thoughts are that since the EGC classes have combined with NADAC, to consider which classes should remain.  Whichever classes do remain, then the scoring would also be changed to follow the same formats as all other NADAC classes.  That would remove the requirement for a Superior Performance before moving up to the next level and the off course faults and failure to perform would mirror the same faults as other NADAC classes.  Classes would have a Standard Course time just as other NADAC classes.

So we are asking for input for X-Chances and X-Gaters........ should these classes stay as part of the NADAC class program or should we just offer X-Hoopers and Barrelers? 

Our options for X-Hoopers is a safe way for clubs to be able to build the circle without the expense, storage and weight of the gates for the circle.

An option for Barrelers is whether or not to add a couple tunnels to the class to test the speed and turning ability even more than the current class and add more excitement to the course design.

X-Hoopers and Barrelers are here to stay.

We question the retention of X-Gaters and X-Chances.  X-Chances is a pretty clear answer with the low offering of the class and the low entries for the class.  X-Gaters is questionable only because the use of Barrels seems to outweigh the use of gates for turning a dog.

So those are the late night ramblings and thoughts tonight!!

Sharon
Title: Re: EGC 2015
Post by: LeeAnne McAdam on December 31, 2014, 08:51:39 PM
I like all the EGC classes and I like the scoring the way it is.  We're not always successful by any means, but I appreciate the challenges that EGC as it currently exists offers.  But I am the first to admit that I don't trial a lot at regular trials and do even less VT so I accept that that means there isn't much weight behind my opinion!  And we will most likely enter and play in whatever form EGC is offered.
Title: Re: EGC 2015
Post by: Cindy on December 31, 2014, 09:01:25 PM
Personally, I love Gaters, but I run an older dog who thinks it is a blast and whatever makes her happy makes me happy.  Chances we only enter is there is no other option.

You didn't ask for input on the scoring, but I'm going to address it anyway.  One of the things I love about EGC is that there is no point to going back to "fix" an error.  You can't make it "right" and you just waste time doing so.  When EGC first started, I loved watching the dogs get faster and more confident as they realized this was pedal to the metal with no stopping to jerk them around to "fix" something they did because their handler asked them to do it, but was now wrong.  This was especially true of dogs that tend to run a little slower to make sure they get it right.  Watching them speed up and run with confidence was so much fun.  As someone who rarely fixes things in any class, I have actually found myself wishing that the scoring change would go the other way, and all NADAC be scored on time plus faults.  I know that isn't feasible, I just get so tired of watching dogs be jerked around or chastised for following the path the handler sent them on - just because it wasn't the path the handler really intended.  I'm not talking about people circling around to retry a sequence, but those who pull their dogs back to an obstacle they skipped, even though the dog has already taken the next obstacle, just to do the course by the numbers.  But then again, I know I am in the minority on this one, as for many years now it has not been about the Q for me, but all about the smile on Ritzy's face as she crosses the finish line.  I've even been known to send her for an off course tunnel, just because I know she wants it so badly.  Do I love it when she Qs - yeah, but if she doesn't, as long as she is happy, I love that as well. 

Okay, off my soapbox and back to to celebrating New Year's Eve with the world's two best dogs,  Q or no Q!

Title: Re: EGC 2015
Post by: Linda W. Anderson on December 31, 2014, 09:05:34 PM
We were one of only a  few clubs on the east coast to hold an EGC only trial in 2014 and were hoping to repeat the trial again this year.  I don't have the stats in front of me, but I believe our entries reflected the stats Sharon has posted.  Assuming X-Chances will be dropped, would you consider allowing Numbered or Strategy Hoopers being offered in it's place at an EGC only trial?  Looking forward to seeing what the future of EGC will be.
Linda Anderson
Star City Canine
Title: Re: EGC 2015
Post by: Sharon Nelson on December 31, 2014, 09:25:37 PM
We were one of only a  few clubs on the east coast to hold an EGC only trial in 2014 and were hoping to repeat the trial again this year.  I don't have the stats in front of me, but I believe our entries reflected the stats Sharon has posted.  Assuming X-Chances will be dropped, would you consider allowing Numbered or Strategy Hoopers being offered in it's place at an EGC only trial?  Looking forward to seeing what the future of EGC will be.
Linda Anderson
Star City Canine

Yes, that would be a good option!  Numbered Hoopers, that is.......

Sharon
Title: Re: EGC 2015
Post by: DeafSheltieMom on December 31, 2014, 09:41:34 PM
I enjoy all of the egc classes...  even the dreaded chances courses, but I've been on board since I first tried it many moons ago... so I will comment on the two classes that are in question, Chances and Gaters.

For EGC Chances, we have not run them here in SoCal enough.  Most clubs are hesitant to offer EGC at all, so if you add the name "Chances" and they cringe because of a fear of lack of entries.  I've also observed that the times I've been able to run an egc chances course, the courses have been difficult, especially for novice handlers.  And it isn't just maintaining the path, but just getting a send out to the distance obstacles.  EGC is already a tough sell, add the dreaded line to it, and people really shy away from the challenge, or become too intimidated to do well.  It's a mental and training issue, but a lack of success at the Novice level really affects how people view the class.  Fewer Novice people want to enter EGC Chances because they lacked success, which then affects whether or not clubs will offer it.  It is an endless negative loop.  I personally would like to see it stay, but I can see the writing on the wall that EGC Chances is more likely to be dropped.

As far as Gaters go, I think it is a great way to introduce people to EGC.  It includes tunnels, which is a familiar (and fun) obstacle, along with unfamiliar gates that the dogs I've seen have no issues with.  Folks then can learn the ins and outs of the rules of the EGC game in a more comfortable course setting.  Dogs become faster because they become familiar with the game, and that creates more handler challenges.  As teams move up, the challenges increase as well... so the familiarity is never boring.  Some of the most fun (and nail biting!) runs I've ever seen have been Gaters courses.  I'd hate to see it go... 

If tunnels are added to Barrelers courses, then in my mind, the challenge of Barrelers changes as well.  Part of the "fun" (or insanity) of Barrelers is remembering the course in the first place, with just Barrels on the course!  My aging mind would probably welcome the change, but I *will* miss standing in the middle of a course wondering where the *heck* I am  :o ... it's part of the fun!  Getting it "right" is such a thrill after those moments!!!  If it becomes necessary to combine Barrelers and Gaters, then I will go with it, but I will be an "old-timer" that will long for the "good old days"!   ;D

I'm wondering if Barrelers has an increase in entries because it is an easy class to offer (just 5-6 barrels) and because barrels are now a part of NADAC courses (I've seen them in Regular and TnG)...

I agree with Cindy about the scoring, in that I love how you should just keep going... it helped me with my ring-challenged scaredy dog, who barely trots when stressed.  He started "running" because of EGC... it was all about him playing with me and he was NEVER wrong.  He started to let his guard down (a little).  It was rewarding for me, because he'd still get points even though he was slow, but really, it was encouraging us to just develop as a team.  I also enjoyed the scoring, because I would push the envelope for the "next" level... 10 points or 15 points depending upon the dog.   It kept the challenge alive for me.  But I'm probably in the minority as well...  I've been playing the game almost since its inception so the rules don't intimidate me like it does newbies.
-Dayle
Title: Re: EGC 2015
Post by: Alanna Leach on December 31, 2014, 11:25:03 PM
My area is one of the areas that has enjoyed EGC.  We learned about handling the path, and I believe it has made many of the teams in our area excel at pathwork! 

Having said that, I now incorporate EGC in my NADAC trials.  I offer XBR and XHP as extra classes, and often do XGT and XCH as VT options.  I like XBR as is.  I struggled with it at the start, but trained through it and now my dog and I love it.  Have always loved XHP, gates and all.  I use the gates often for other things at trials (barriers), so storage has never been an issue for me.

One of the things I love about NADAC, things are always evaluated! 

Alanna
Avalon Agility
Lloydminster, Alberta
Canada


Sent by Alanna Leach from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
Title: Re: EGC 2015
Post by: Sharon Nelson on December 31, 2014, 11:53:37 PM
Great, GREAT input so far!! 

Thanks and awesome thoughts to ponder on.  I love the input from different perspectives.

Great input on the scoring thoughts....

Sharon
Title: Re: EGC 2015
Post by: Shirlene Clark on January 01, 2015, 01:36:37 AM
Well you know how I feel about EGC Sharon :)  I love it all and Australia has a fairly keen EGC following and I think many teams that are keen on EGC have developed in their traditional class performances as a team because of EGC.  Apart from knowing how I feel you also know that I will support any decision you make as I do know that you evaluate and think through it all with the best interests of people, dogs, clubs and organisation.
Title: Re: EGC 2015
Post by: Deni on January 01, 2015, 01:39:23 AM
We have several trials a year in our area that offer all the NADAC/EGC classes.  I personally love the EGC classes and have been a big promoter of the program.  I like the way the courses are scored, but I have found it a lot more difficult to Q in the Elite level  ;D.  The Es come a lot faster and more frequently when we can only have 3 faults or less and the courses are more challenging too!  (Still love it.) 

I have wondered about the need for Hoopers and Extreme Hoopers.  At our trials we still offer both because people who are working for their All Arounds ask for Hoopers.  I get a lot of requests to do an extra TTW instead of Hoopers also.  It seems like the participants for the Numbered Hoopers are lower than other classes and they decline even more when we offer Strategic Hoopers instead.  (Maybe that's an inaccurate impression, but it seems like exhibitors skip that class more frequently than others.)

Have you considered eliminating Hoopers? I believe exhibitors can already use the Extreme Hoopers in it's place for the All Around and maybe that would encourage clubs to offer XHoopers more?  Or maybe keep all the EGC classes and use that as the way to complete the All Around instead?

In regards to the Gaters class - love it!  So much fun, but I can see the value in combining it with Barrelers.  I don't particularly like the hoop on gate setup.  Not because we can't do it, but because the dogs have to step over gate feet and hoop base in order to execute the course successfully.  I've had my dog cut his pad on the PVC digging in to make the turn.  It was probably more of a fluke accident, but I try to make sure the ends are capped now to avoid this type of issue happening again. 

I enjoy the newest Barrelers format, but it is an awful lot of Barrelers.  I think the biggest challenge for me is remembering where I'm supposed to go while my dog is flying around the course.  One brain fade and we are toast!  Quite the rush when all goes as planned though.

I also enjoy Extreme Chances, but I find it fairly similar to Gaters.  The lines aren't really of concern to me, but I do notice it's not a fan favorite class.  I think the line itself offers a challenge that is intimidating especially to newer exhibitors.  I always tell them just to try it and cross the line if it isn't working!  It is a fun class and a good way to enhance bonus line skills (staying on path with distance, directionals, speed, etc..)

Sorry for the rambling, just typing while I think.  I guess my overall opinion is that I would hate to lose the Extreme Hoopers, so I'm glad that class is popular.  I really enjoy Gaters and Barrelers, but combining the two sounds like a good compromise if necessary.  Extreme Chances I'd like to see stay, but I understand supply and demand.   


 
 
Title: Re: EGC 2015
Post by: dogrsqr on January 01, 2015, 06:09:59 AM
EGC is not offered much in our part of the country.  I try to enter it whenever possible.  Our club does not offer it as we don't have gates or enough barrels. 

I personally love Gaters and X chances.  I only enter barrelers and hoopers because they are offered at the same time.  I'm really not sure I would continue to enter any EGC classes if they are reduced to only barrelers and hoopers.  Barrelers has always seemed un NADAC like to me as far as flow goes. I've never cared much for the ring of gates in X hoopers; I feel like it causes a visual disconnect.

As far as storage of gates for Hoopers, that is a big concern for clubs like ours that store equipment in trailers and offer multiple venues.  We already have 2 trailers.

I would be sad to see X Chances and Gaters disappear, but understand as  I'm usually in the minority.

Gina Pizzo
Title: Re: EGC 2015
Post by: tag team on January 01, 2015, 06:24:17 AM
Gaters was my favorite EGC class, due to the inclusion of straight tunnels where my dogs could totally "let loose" and think for themselves between turns.   Turns around gates were fluid but my dogs are small.  My dog Lil practically rubbed her side along the gates due to running such a tight line, which she does naturally around gates more so than barrels for some reason.   

Gaters was only offered at one or maybe two trials I attended in the NE but both my dogs appeared to love it and Lil had an index of 100+ which indicates to me that she really LOVED it!  I think I heard that one reason Gaters stopped being offered was because Qs in Gaters were not needed to qualify for Triple Crown at Champs whereas Barrelers and Hoopers Qs were.    I could be wrong about that though.

I stopped entering Barrelers after seeing Lil lack her usual gusto when running Barrelers with hoops... which I think are now gone.  I felt she was being obedient vs. having fun.  I think the aspect that wasn't fun for her was how much I had to rein her in mentally to get her through those hoops and to turn in the correct direction around all those Barrels.  RE: Jake, I think all those tight turns are just not comfortable for him. He has always been a Loopy little guy....both physically and mentally (HA HA but true) so Barrelers just might not be his thing and I'm OK with that.  :)

I'd personally love to see a Barrelers course that was set up a bit more like Gators...with straight or slightly curved tunnels mixed in.   I think my dogs would love it. even Mr. Loopy! 

Dev, Jake, and Lil
Title: Re: EGC 2015
Post by: Billie Rosen on January 01, 2015, 06:29:31 AM
I really like EGC as it presents challenges beyond that we see in the non-EGC NADAC classes and that spells fun in my book.  My biggest frustration with it is, as Sharon points out, most clubs only offer XBR and XHP when they do offer EGC.  I personally find XBR, Barrelers, the most unexciting of the EGC games, because it offers the same challenges over and over.  The primary test of XBR is one of memory - can I remember the pattern?  The current configuration is really unexciting to me - it is the same few challenges over and over.  I much preferred it when there were hoops, so adding back hoops and tunnels would be a big improvement, in my book.

I personally prefer X Chances and X Gaters much more than the X Hoopers.  XCC is really challenging, and I love that.  However, about the only time I get to do it is when my club offers it (Jumping Chollas does 3 or 4 all EGC trials a year).  Same for XGT, which I really like.  And I think X Gaters gives those trying EGC for the first time a lot of confidence about their ability to handle an EGC course.

So my "vote" is for EGC to stay, keep all 4 classes, but make Barrelers more varied and interesting by adding in hoops and tunnels.  And give clubs an incentive to offer X Chances and X Gaters.  Yes, they are hard, but that is their allure.  Regular Chances is hard too, but clubs offer it, and people enter it and train for it, because there is an incentive to do so.
Title: Re: EGC 2015
Post by: Mary Kapner on January 01, 2015, 08:15:54 AM
Although, not one of the questions you have asked input for, I would like to see some hoops added to the other levels of Barrelers, not just elite.  Elite Barrelers really helped my standard poodle, who has a great stride, learn to tighten up around barrels.

I like all the EGC classes.  They all have been so challenging, fun and I am happy I have been able to participate in them all.  Thx!
Title: Re: EGC 2015
Post by: Wild Terriers on January 01, 2015, 08:39:17 AM
I personally have been a HUGE fan of EGC and I run it every opportunity I get, I have also been known to travel great distances for the opportunity to run EGC (Virginia, Iowa, Oklahoma, Arizona, Oregon just a few states which come to mind).  Some friends and I also had a set of gates made so that we could offer them to clubs who wanted to offer Extreme Hoopers, to date, the first club who used them built their own set afterwards and another club who had arranged to use them ended up building their own and I have another club who is going to use them in April, so I will continue my quest to promote and provide EGC, but if there is a lighter, more cost effective way for clubs, I am all for that. 

For me, I would be very sad to see the scoring change - for several reasons, first I like that it is different and that fixing things is not an option, I also find it encouraging for those who have never run it before, to be able to tell them, if you get a score, you get points - I find that it makes it less daunting for those who have not run it before.  I also would be very, very sad to see Extreme Chances go away.  I find it to be very challenging, but very rewarding when done correctly.  That being said, when I encourage clubs to offer EGC, I do tend to steer them away from Extreme Chances as people seem VERY intimidated by the class and I have had to weigh my personal desires (to have lots of Extreme Chances) and my desire to promote EGC, so of course promoting EGC wins.  I would very much like to take advantage of the VT availability of Chances and Gaters and if they are still available in the Spring I plan to do so.  I have not had a place to do them, but I have a good friend who is in the process of building an agility field and I have every intention of visiting often. 

I do believe one of the reasons that Barrelers is the most offered class is due to the ease of setting it and that clubs have barrels.  I find when Barrelers is offered here on the East Coast it is usually the last class on Sunday.  Hmmm, adding tunnels to Barrelers - I'm really not sure how I feel about that - my first thought was - cool, but my second thought was, would it make it to much like Gaters. . . .   I'll have to think on that one some more.  I do have to say, of the four classes, Barrelers is my least favorite.  I love Barrels, and so do my dogs, but for some reason, I really struggle with remembering the courses and I do not tend to have an issue remembering courses.  I also find that once I start to run barrelers, I have no conscious awareness of drawing the path and the connection with my dogs, which is one of the biggest reasons I love EGC.  I know that I do draw the path, I've seen videos (tee hee hee), but it is just a different feeling for me.  And, yes, perhaps it is a training issue and I am a.o.k. with that, so I am not asking for changes for "me" just tossing out my impressions.  I really was enjoying the hoops being added to the barrels in Elite, but the last couple of times I've run Barrelers there have not been any hoops.   I personally would like to see some hoops added to all levels of Barrelers (the hoops used on the barrels), but maybe it is just me, but that seemed to give me more of a "visual" when walking and running the course, and I felt more connected to the path and my dogs when they were there, again, this may be a "me" issue. . . . . .

Extreme Hoopers - absolutely my favorite, favorite, favorite class in all agility.  My dogs and I love it and I know after we've run Extreme Hoopers, we run traditional agility better - more connected, smooter, just better.  I would love, love, love to see more clubs offer it.

Extreme Gaters - I really enjoy this class as well - I like how it combines the tunnels with the gates, I find it to be fun, fun, fun and my dogs seem to really enjoy it, and I always learn something about my handling skills (or, lack thereof - tee hee hee)

I will support EGC in whatever way it evolves, but I for one am hoping it retains much of what it has evolved to today.

I am very glad I decided to start the year off with a visit to the forum (I have been off of the forum for quite awhile with life stuff), and one of my goals is to get caught up on the forum and stay current!!!

Happy New Year!!!

Karen and the Wild Terriers
Title: Re: EGC 2015
Post by: Sharon Nelson on January 01, 2015, 08:55:10 AM
Loving the input!  Especially about the scoring.  Such interesting feedback and I love hearing about it.

One comment about adding tunnels and such to Barrelers......... that would only happen if Gaters is removed..... then Barrelers would take on more of the "Gaters" look and the fun and thrill of the setup of Gaters.

Sharon
Title: Re: EGC 2015
Post by: Stardax Dachshunds on January 01, 2015, 10:28:37 AM
I would like to see Gaters continue to be offered - it is a wonderful class to enter a "green" dog in.  I have had much success running Novice Gaters with a dog that is barely at the Intro level in other NADAC classes.  It offers a safe course where the dog can run super fast without worrying about contacts, handler corrections, etc.

That being said - I love the EGC Hoopers the best, Gaters second and Barrelers third.  I tried EGC Chances once, and will not do that again - way too much distance for a dog that only has a 50% pass rate at the novice level of regular Chances. 

Brenda and the pack of mini-daxies
Title: Re: EGC 2015
Post by: Rose on January 01, 2015, 10:50:53 AM
I've only run in one EGC trial, but I loved the scoring concept.  No point in going back to fix a mistake; just keep going with the flow!
Title: Re: EGC 2015
Post by: Janine McGee on January 01, 2015, 12:22:49 PM
I enjoy running EGC. As a handler it keeps you on your toes. The line in XCH isn't an issue for me as I don't run beside my dogs. I have only had the opportunity to run it a few times and do not feel that the line in novice is excessive at all.

I would prefer if XBR was changed from the current cloverleaf type pattern. I feel that big striding dogs never get out of collection.  The addition of hoops and even a tunnel(!) would give handlers and dogs some mental relief from the constant turning and collecting.

Keep on innovating Sharon.

Janine


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Title: Re: EGC 2015
Post by: Rebecca Kriz on January 01, 2015, 01:37:36 PM
I'm still trying to process all my thoughts on this, but I want to say I'll miss Gaters and XChances if they go.  I like having four flavors of EGC, but maybe I'm just selfish and want more to enter with my dog that likes EGC more than 'regular' agility.
Title: Re: EGC 2015
Post by: Richard Wolfe on January 01, 2015, 01:46:48 PM
I really enjoy all the Extreme Games and especially Hoopers and am glad to see it's here to stay.

They aren't offered in the central US near me, so I've only done them ONCE at the Purina Farms Funraiser and during Champs several times.  When they were introduced and sort of a different venue, I decided that I didn't really want to travel far to do them but would entere any time they were offered at a trial I was entering anyway, or if there was an  Extreme-only trial nearby when there was no other NADAC nearby.  And after several years, I retain that opinion.

As far as the question of adding barrels to XGaters, that would just seem to duplicate the tests of XBarrelers, so I don't personally see the point.  And if XGaters and XChances aren't that popular, dropping them from the mix would allow clubs to offer more runs of the popular classes.  That would seem to be a win-win, as the competitors would get the classes they want and would enter more, and the clubs would get more entries for those and obviously, to offer a trial you need to make a profit or at very least to break even.

JMO
Title: Re: EGC 2015
Post by: Sharon Nelson on January 01, 2015, 01:49:00 PM
Good input!

I am glad that someone brought up the issue with the dogs, especially the smaller dogs, having to negotiate the feet of the gates if they try to turn tightly around a gate.  That had been brought to my attention and I forgot to include it in my post.

I am leaning towards having three EGC classes, since we have three TTW classes (Tunnelers, Touch N Go, and Weavers) and three NADAC jumping classes (Chances, Jumpers and Regular).  The logical removal would be X-Chances, since we already have Chances in the NADAC program and X-Chances is the least favorite for clubs to offer and for competitors to enter.

The same issue is being brought up that has been observed with Barrelers........ that is it TOUGH for handlers to remember the courses at the Elite level.  If we added a couple Tunnels like we do in Gaters, it doesn't lessen the connection and path work required, but does make it easier for course memory.

I do think that people love Gaters because of course design.   If we used the same type of course design for Barrelers we could make that class even more fun!

I am still trying to work through the thoughts on Gaters......... turning a dog in a curve around a flat obstacle never "looks" right.  And the issue with the feet being in the dog's path is an issue.  As people say, it isn't the gate itself that makes Gaters fun, it is the course design used.

A cool idea was mentioned in a private response.......... to combine X-Hoopers and Barrelers in a combo type class where the dog does part of the hoop circle, come out to do a barrel type pattern and back in the hoop circle, etc........ to combine the skills of X-Hoopers and Barrelers in one combo class.

Sharon
Title: Re: EGC 2015
Post by: Richard Wolfe on January 01, 2015, 01:57:36 PM
I forgot to mention in my earlier post that for Gate construction a friend and I have both used plastic snow fence/barrier fence instead of the lattice.  It's much lighter and we've seen no problems with it.  We attached it to the pvc frame with zip-ties.  WARNING:  you need to nip off the tag ends so the dogs' eyes aren't in danger.  And if you need to disassemble the gates for storage it's still somewhat time consuming but less so than removing the screws that attach the lattice.
Title: Re: EGC 2015
Post by: Rebecca Kriz on January 01, 2015, 01:58:31 PM
Hm.  Although I just said I like more classes, the combo class actually sounds like it might be the option that makes the most sense.  Just have one Extreme Combo class that clubs could easily add to a regular weekend.
Title: Re: EGC 2015
Post by: Debbie Lean on January 01, 2015, 02:42:54 PM
I love EGC & always choose to enter trials that offer it over trials that don't, even though it has become almost impossible for me to Q at the elite level ;)  I do like the idea of combining X-Gaters & X-Barrelers but if the idea is to just have 3 EGC classes I would prefer doing away with X-Chances over X-Gaters. X-Gaters tends to be the 1st class that people succeed in & keeps them coming back to EGC. One thing I haven't heard addressed is the back-to-back fault rule that takes away from the general rule of just keep moving in EGC. I do know that whatever you choose to do will be well thought out and I will happily continue in EGC in whatever form it evolves into.

Debbie Lean
Title: Re: EGC 2015
Post by: Murrelet Halterman on January 01, 2015, 02:43:28 PM
I'm another hardcore EGC fan, and I agree with Dayle and Denise. The current format is great, but I'll keep happily playing EGC in any format available!

I agree that Gators is a great intro class for everyone, and it is a blast to run at all levels! It would be sad to see it go, since it's the "gateway" EGC course for many.  ;D

EGC Hoopers - love it in it's current form, and the idea of HooBarrels (Barroopers? Boopers?) sounds like a blast!

Barrelers - I like it, but as others have stated some courses require a lot of collection from the fast big-striding dogs. I love barrels on other NADAC courses, and I also liked the addition of hoops to Barrelers.

Extreme Chances - I think that courses over the last year or so seem more doable than previously, and therefore more encouraging to all. In the past these courses are sometimes very tough at all levels, and I could see this losing participants due to the difficulty. because of the difficulty, it is a big rush to get those EGC Chances points, and I'm in favor of keeping the course, but I certainly understand the reasons for considering eliminating the course.

My $0.02,

Murrelet, Tui, and Malko - all big EGC fans!
Title: Re: EGC 2015
Post by: Sharon Nelson on January 01, 2015, 02:47:25 PM
Great comments!

I too agree that people love Gaters, but I think that it is because of course design, not because of gates.  If we removed the "gaters" class and then started doing Barrelers with the Gaters course design, I think we would have very happy people!!

What about X-Hoopers, Barrelers (using the Gaters course designs), and Combo for the three EGC classes??

Sharon
Title: Re: EGC 2015
Post by: Murrelet Halterman on January 01, 2015, 02:57:57 PM
That sounds like an excellent line-up, particularly with additional options for the Hoop Circle. I know that when we ran Combo at Champs (Springfield 2011) it was the most agility fun EVER, for both participants and spectators!

Murrelet
Title: Re: EGC 2015
Post by: tag team on January 01, 2015, 03:09:50 PM
Great comments!

I too agree that people love Gaters, but I think that it is because of course design, not because of gates.  If we removed the "gaters" class and then started doing Barrelers with the Gaters course design, I think we would have very happy people!!

What about X-Hoopers, Barrelers (using the Gaters course designs), and Combo for the three EGC classes??

Sharon

I love it!!!!!  I can personally vouch for one person and two dogs who would be very happy with this plan!  :)  Dev
Title: Re: EGC 2015
Post by: Deni on January 01, 2015, 03:17:28 PM
Great comments!

What about X-Hoopers, Barrelers (using the Gaters course designs), and Combo for the three EGC classes??

Sharon


Sounds like a good solution and stills lots of fun!
I'd hate to see it become scored like the other NADAC courses though. I think part of the fun is the pedal to the medal, don't look back philosophy. I'd agree with the earlier poster that I would probably prefer to see other courses move more to the EGC scoring than the other way around.
Title: Re: EGC 2015
Post by: Sharon Nelson on January 01, 2015, 03:39:11 PM
Great comments!

What about X-Hoopers, Barrelers (using the Gaters course designs), and Combo for the three EGC classes??

Sharon


Sounds like a good solution and stills lots of fun!
I'd hate to see it become scored like the other NADAC courses though. I think part of the fun is the pedal to the medal, don't look back philosophy. I'd agree with the earlier poster that I would probably prefer to see other courses move more to the EGC scoring than the other way around.

Yes, Denise, I would love that........... but I am not ready to take on that battle!!  I love the EGC scoring and how it gives credit to the "live" run.  Yes, in hindsight, I wish NADAC had started that way from day 1, but no going back.

Sounds like the current EGC scoring will remain....... YES!!

Sharon
Title: Re: EGC 2015
Post by: Rebecca Kriz on January 01, 2015, 03:48:19 PM
I honestly don't see the point of having X Hoopers AND a 'combo' that's the gate circle and barrels. (A point other than more runs.  Which I like, but it still seems a bit repetitive.)

Also super happy to hear that scoring will remain the same!
Title: Re: EGC 2015
Post by: Carole & Pat Daggett on January 01, 2015, 03:58:14 PM
I'm one of the minority whose favorite EGC class is X-Chances, followed closely by X-Gaters, and wish that they could stay.  Of course I love regular Chances, so probably why I like X-Chances so much, and X-Gaters is just so much fun.  That said, I rarely have been able to run them because they are not offered around here.  It seems clubs offer X-Barrelers and X-Hoopers, and virtually nothing else.  I find Barrelers a bit boring, and even X-Hoopers, although to a lesser extent.  Anything that changes those two classes would be welcome.

Glad to hear that scoring will not change.

Carole Daggett
Title: Re: EGC 2015
Post by: Rebecca Kriz on January 01, 2015, 04:00:06 PM
Will the titles/move up rate still be changed to match the rest of NADAC?  I think requiring the Superior titles benefits the dog/handler, because I think a lot of handlers would be over their heads and get discouraged in Elite EGC after cruising through Novice and Open.
Title: Re: EGC 2015
Post by: Wild Terriers on January 01, 2015, 04:27:01 PM
I love the idea of Barrels in a Gaters type course.  I agree with your comment about it never feeling "right" having the dogs go around a flat obstacle like a gate.  And, a combo class sounds AWESOME!!!!  The most fun in a single run I've ever had running agility was the Combo class in Springfield at Champs - we didn't do it very well, but OMG, I still remember the rush of just "doing it". 

So, would there still be an Extreme NATCH?  Just curious and purely selfishly, since it's been a goal of mine with Sammi.  Oh my, I am getting so excited thinking about the evolution of EGC - fun, fun, fun!!!!  I really, really like the idea of Barrelers being like Gaters and I suspect I will have two VERY happy dogs!!!

Karen and the Wild EGC loving Terriers



Great comments!

I too agree that people love Gaters, but I think that it is because of course design, not because of gates.  If we removed the "gaters" class and then started doing Barrelers with the Gaters course design, I think we would have very happy people!!

What about X-Hoopers, Barrelers (using the Gaters course designs), and Combo for the three EGC classes??

Sharon
Title: Re: EGC 2015
Post by: Jeanne Allen on January 01, 2015, 05:36:23 PM
Lots to think about here.  Here are my rambling thoughts in no particular order.

Scoring, I think it should remain as is.  I like the challenge of trying to keep my dog on the path and doing the obstacles correctly.  If the scoring is changed to the way a normal trial is scored, then why have the ECG classes.  I do not know if I will every do bonus lines, but I think because scoring in EGC is like running a bonus line, this could be a good start for those that want to work up to doing bonus lines. 

There is not a lot of EGC in my area.  The EGC I have done has been mostly X-Hoopers and X-Barrels.  I have run X-Chances and X-Gaters two or three times but clubs just are not offering them (one club did not like these classes so they did not offer them).  If there is one EGC class that could be dropped, I would say X-Chances.  As mentioned, Chances in a regular trial is challenging enough and the two or three times I ran it it seemed a lot like X-Gaters but with a line.

I really like X-Hoopers the way it is, with the lattice gates.  For me it comes down to a training issue.  When my young dog jumped over a gate the first time we did X-Hoopers, I went home and made regulation gates to teach him that he needed to go around, not over a gate. 

Yes I can agree with others that X-Barrels is hard to remember the course at times (and I am still in Novice with both of my dogs), but the idea of adding a tunnel to the class seems to me that it would be more like a X-Gaters class.  If there needs to be some way to break up the X-Barrels class I would sayh add some hoops.

I would love to have my club do EGC, but the equipment needed is one of the draw backs.  Like some clubs we store all of our equipment in a trailer and we do two different venues, so the trailer is almost stuffed to the gills as it is.  I and another die hard NADAC person in the area have offered to let the club borrow our barrels and gates to hold some EGC classes, but for what ever reason there still seems to be some resistance. 

It seems that there was something else I was going to say, but I have been working on this for awhile and do not remember what it is.

No mater what the final outcome is I will still enter the classes and continue to have fun with my dogs, as I am a NADAC junkie!!!




Title: Re: EGC 2015
Post by: Jeannie Biggers on January 01, 2015, 06:38:26 PM
I have been one of the original lovers of EGC.  I think that one of the first demos you did was in my backyard!  I will admit that thru the changes that some things excited me and others really turned me off.  I love that it is fast and a handling challenge :) 

I do know that the reason that clubs are offering barrelers and x hoopers is because those are the points you needed for Champs....

What I would think would be cool is to have the clubs able to offer S-hoopers, #-hoopers, or X-hoopers.  There choice all the same points basically like you are doing now.... my suggestion would be ...... Round Six 2013 Champs Speed Round... add barrels :)  That course was so flipping FUN!!!  It was totally about speed and handling.... EGC.  I think if people could see that kind of course added on a normal weekend it would be amazing to watch a round just like it at Champs again.  I would think you could still do the same type of scoring maybe just make it as simple as possible... dog passes the plane of the obstacle... move on.... you just lost your points.  Keep up the momentum, dont correct the dog as they probably went exactly where you sent them.... I think it would be fun for everyone.... young dogs, old dogs, and handlers... and I think the course designers would come up with some way wicked stuff for us to do.... yet still be really fun :)  My other opinion is to not make Elite basically just a memorizing game with too many obstacles.... I think you could get some amazing challenges just like in regular NADAC with 20-22 obstacles.

Just my thoughts :)
Title: Re: EGC 2015
Post by: Laurel Manning on January 02, 2015, 11:55:53 AM
We like  XGaters and XBarrelers.  My old dog loves these.  XBarrelers with Gaters' course design would be even better.    Prefer to keep the current scoring, to work the Path and reduce redo's.  Never enter XChances (reg Chances is hard enough).  XHoopers is just ok, but there is a lot of skill work involved for dog and handler.  Laurel Manning
Title: Re: EGC 2015
Post by: Heidi Konesko on January 02, 2015, 01:55:40 PM
I like the way EGC is currently scored too.  The difference in attitude and enjoyment is huge when there is a disincentive to going back and "fixing" it.  Thanks for keeping it that way!
I love X Hoopers the most.  Barrelers is good fun now that I have a dog that enjoys doing it.  I never liked X gaters and X chances much.
I like strategic hoopers better than numbered hoopers fwiw.
-Heidi in NH
Title: Re: EGC 2015
Post by: Koralee on January 02, 2015, 07:14:39 PM
I love the extreme games, all of them.  First of all I totally agree with the scoring as too much in agility the dogs are receiving mixed messages when they are redirected with poor body position.  Extreme games makes you really focus on your handling and really shows what the dogs are directed to do. 

I also have three large breed dogs in my classes who can participate in ECG, but do not participate in regular agility (due to the contact equipment and weaves).

I am new to VT stuff, but I am working on having this in my area (Northern Alberta) in the summers.  Unfortunately our building is not big enough to host in the winter.

Love, love, love XHP as it has taught me so much about handling my dog and how much "push" I have to give.

Koralee
Title: Re: EGC 2015
Post by: Koralee on January 02, 2015, 07:24:46 PM
Having read all the comments now, I am not sure about adding barrels to the XHP course as I like it with hoops.  Combining XBR and XGT makes the most sense to me.  I remember a while back that you had the gamble/chances line within the regular course.  What about that in EGC for XBR (with the added tunnels) and XGT?  If you can do it from distance perhaps you get a bonus point or less deductions?  It's a thought.

All in all, I know I am in good hands with NADAC and Sharon will do what is best for the dogs.

Koralee
Title: Re: EGC 2015
Post by: Deni on January 03, 2015, 01:00:34 AM
Just a few questions related to this topic;

1) If/when these classes change what would happen with the dogs existing points? Would they be credited to another similar class or just count towards the dogs overall lifetime points or ??

2) What's your anticipated timeline for the changes to happen? Sounds like I may need to adjust the classes scheduled for our March trial, since we have all 4 existing EGC classes planned.

3) What's the future for Strategic and Numbered Hoopers?  I noticed Hoopers wasn't mentioned in your post about having three (TTW) games. Would they continue to be offered as a separate class from XHP or maybe just be 3 versions of Hoopers for clubs to pick from?
Title: Re: EGC 2015
Post by: Cindy on January 03, 2015, 09:10:45 AM

All in all, I know I am in good hands with NADAC and Sharon will do what is best for the dogs.

Koralee

I couldn't agree more!!
Title: Re: EGC 2015
Post by: leeanne on January 03, 2015, 01:05:03 PM
I got many opportunities to run EGC while in Southern California, and Drifter and I loved it.  Once he figured out that "those things" were also obstacles...  :)
Yes, it took some extra training, but that's the fun for me.  The comment I wanted to make about the removal of some (or all) of the EGC classes is:  Although there are 2 classes at regular trials that do not have jumps, contacts or weaves, EGC offers more of these.  I have had students in classes whose dogs can not do these obstacles for one reason or another and they are so very happy to have another option to compete with their dogs.  I have also spoken with people over the years who did not think it was possible to do agility because of their dog's disability....they were overjoyed when they found out about the classes NADAC offered that they could do, and signed up for classes that day!
Another side of EGC that I have seen is the confidence booster in many dogs.  I think EGC has done wonderful things for lots of handlers and dogs, and we have NADAC to thank for that!

Lee Anne & Drifter
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada (Where there is no NADAC....  :()
Title: Re: EGC 2015
Post by: Lynne Almeida on January 04, 2015, 03:15:12 PM
I love love love all the extreme games classes!  They're a great place to start with my more beginner dog, and as my more experienced dog gains in years, it'll be a way for her to keep playing in a lower-impact way.  They're her favorite classes now, anyways, and provide both of us a good change of pace from the 'regular' classes that is good for both of our brains ... Both in the course designs and path challenges offered, and in the way they are scored.  I am very happy with the program as it stands ... In fact, EGC being offered now weighs heavily when I am considering attending a trial.  However, I'm game to try something new if you decide to change it up!!
Title: Re: EGC 2015
Post by: tag team on January 12, 2015, 10:17:42 AM
Sharon,

When should we expect to start seeing the new style of Barrelers courses (with tunnels)?  Barrelers is being offered at a trial I play to attend later this month and I would LOVE to run my dogs on a course that includes a tunnel or two.

Dev Sperber, Jake and Lil
Title: Re: EGC 2015
Post by: Kelly Hall on January 12, 2015, 03:32:50 PM
I have been competing in EGC in Australia since it first started. I loved from the beginning and still love it now. Yes, there are some classes that are more difficult than others but I have found that doing EGC has made me a far better handler overall. Learning about handling the path without obstacles and not worrying about going back and fixing things have been the two big winners for me. My dog competes with confidence and he just loves EGC. Extreme chances is definitely the hardest of all the classes but what a thrill when you succeed as I did in champs this year in Elite. I was hoping one day to get an EGC NATCh. I love the sound do tunnels in Barrellers and agree that the course at Elite can be very hard to remember. I also like the sound of barrels in gaters. I know that EGC has many followers here in Australia and know that we will continue to compete in it in whatever format it takes.
Title: Re: EGC 2015
Post by: Lindsey Cooper on January 12, 2015, 08:22:15 PM
The reason I haven't offered any EGC classes in Colorado is due to not wanting to make, store and transport the gates. My trailer is already packed with all the regular equipment and I just don't have room for the gates. I'd love to see an alternate idea or classes that just use hoops, barrels and tunnels. I have 3 barrels, but can add more pop up ones easily without taking up too much space.

I've only played x-Hoopers and x-Barrelers and had a blast doing both. I don't know if we have the interest here, but if I set up some VT runs, I could see what people think. Since we don't have any local judges, I'd have to see if I can add one or two of them to a regular trial and see who the brave people are. :)

Lindsey
www.mountaindogsports.com (http://www.mountaindogsports.com)
Title: Re: EGC 2015
Post by: Sharon Nelson on January 12, 2015, 11:33:11 PM
The reason I haven't offered any EGC classes in Colorado is due to not wanting to make, store and transport the gates. My trailer is already packed with all the regular equipment and I just don't have room for the gates. I'd love to see an alternate idea or classes that just use hoops, barrels and tunnels. I have 3 barrels, but can add more pop up ones easily without taking up too much space.

I've only played x-Hoopers and x-Barrelers and had a blast doing both. I don't know if we have the interest here, but if I set up some VT runs, I could see what people think. Since we don't have any local judges, I'd have to see if I can add one or two of them to a regular trial and see who the brave people are. :)

Lindsey
www.mountaindogsports.com (http://www.mountaindogsports.com)

Good input!

Don't plan on setting up any EGC VT runs as they will be ending this week.  Doing VT for EGC just didn't work and was not consistent with the scoring one would get on a trial weekend.  Due to the scoring inconsistencies, we won't be offering any more EGC VT runs.

Sharon
Title: Re: EGC 2015
Post by: KathieT on January 15, 2015, 06:28:25 PM
I am sorry that VT EGC will not continue.  I had hoped to do some runs when the weather warmed up.  Would it be possible to have runs posted once a month that we could use for practice?

Thanks,
Kathie Till
Title: Re: EGC 2015
Post by: PeteHudson on January 18, 2015, 10:09:02 AM
 I don't particularly like the gators class but love the use of gates in NADAC which promotes their use for other training applications.   Perhaps some of the storage and cost reservations would be alleviated with a change in obstacle specification.  I have been using a design with a reduced lattice height of 24" and a removable leg for storage.  In order to keep the Obstacle height about the same with a reduced lattice height I added height to the bottom.  Another way to reduce storage space and a weight a little is to use 3/4" PVC - the gate is not as sturdy looking but seems to stay up in heavy wind OK.  The lighter / smaller gates are a little easier to move and work just great for training applications.
Title: Re: EGC 2015
Post by: Sharon Nelson on January 18, 2015, 03:13:41 PM
I don't particularly like the gators class but love the use of gates in NADAC which promotes their use for other training applications.   Perhaps some of the storage and cost reservations would be alleviated with a change in obstacle specification.  I have been using a design with a reduced lattice height of 24" and a removable leg for storage.  In order to keep the Obstacle height about the same with a reduced lattice height I added height to the bottom.  Another way to reduce storage space and a weight a little is to use 3/4" PVC - the gate is not as sturdy looking but seems to stay up in heavy wind OK.  The lighter / smaller gates are a little easier to move and work just great for training applications.

Good input!!  Do you have a picture of the lighter gates?

Sharon
Title: Re: EGC 2015
Post by: Sharon Nelson on January 19, 2015, 09:16:22 AM
I wish to thank everyone for their great input both on the forum and privately.  Great input from experienced handlers and new to EGC handlers along with judges from all ends of the experience levels for EGC.

We will be removing Extreme Chances from the list of possible EGC classes on June 1, 2015.  If there are individuals that still want to complete an Extreme Chances title, we will work with you via video possibilities if needed.

We will be doing some beta testing of a different style of course design for Extreme Barrelers and will post here how it is working (or not) in a trial format.

Scoring for EGC will remain the same as it currently is.

We will remove the requirement for a Superior level title in EGC before moving to the next level as of now.

We will be adding an Awards program that contains and highlights the addition of EGC to the awards level.  Awards that include EGC will be a higher ranking award than those without EGC.  For example an Extreme Triple Superior Versatility Award is a higher award than a Triple Superior Versatility Award.  We will be adding new Hall of Fame options for dogs with the addition of EGC with their current awards.

We currently have two dogs with Extreme NATCHes and we will look at what the requirements will be for new Extreme NATCH points requirements.  The two dogs that currently have both Extreme NATCHes and Extreme Versatility NATCHes will have just earned them the harder way!  (since both dogs, Busi and Sinner, currently live with me, both Sara and I can handle that!)

It does appear that Gaters may be leaving also, but we will wait to see what happens with the beta format of Barrelers.  If Gaters leaves, then we will add an EGC combo class consisting of a hoop circle, barrels, and tunnels.  If Gaters stays, then we will not add an EGC combo class and will not change the course design of Barrelers.

Sharon
Title: Re: EGC 2015
Post by: Sharon Nelson on January 19, 2015, 09:22:49 AM
My other opinion is to not make Elite basically just a memorizing game with too many obstacles.... I think you could get some amazing challenges just like in regular NADAC with 20-22 obstacles.

Just my thoughts :)

I have not ever had input from Elite handlers about the difficulty of memorizing the course except in Barrelers.  The Elite handlers haven't seemed to have had any issues in Hoopers, Gaters or Chances.

And since Elite Barrelers is always 17 obstacles long and handlers can't remember the course, I am thinking it has nothing to do with the length of the course that is the problem and it never gets close to that 20-22 long since it is set at 17 for Elite, 14 for Open, 11 for Novice and 8 for Intro.

Length of course hasn't seem to be an issue for the past year and a half since we changed some of the course designs at that time.  Longer courses in Hoopers, Gaters and Chances all flow so well that it never seems to be an issue.   But 17 obstacles in Barrelers seems to be very tough for handlers to remember the course!  That is why we are discussing the changes, not because the course is too long to memorize.

Sharon
Title: Re: EGC 2015
Post by: PeteHudson on January 19, 2015, 11:35:28 AM
Attached are photographs of the regulation size gate and a reduced size version.  The support leg is deliberately put an angle for the photo to show that it can easily be removed.  The reduced height gate can easily be a little higher by putting a spacer at the bottom.

I just noticed the tunnel holder and also put a photo of it.  This is from a concept is saw at one of the Cholla's trials where they used these very clever cloth holders that were fastened in the ground.  I don't think this is the place to introduce my questions about this holder but didn't want to take pictures again.

The point is that perhaps Xhoopers would be more acceptable if the gates were lighter and a little easier to store.
Title: Re: EGC 2015
Post by: Leanne on January 19, 2015, 04:11:17 PM
My difficulty with remembering Barrelers courses comes from remembering which side of the barrel to go around. 

I am nearly finished Open with Cody so that's 14 barrels.  BUT that is trying to remember 28 pieces of info.... 14 barrels in the right order + 14 sides of barrels.

Other than u shaped tunnels, all other NADAC obstacles have 1 obvious direction for the path.
But in Barrelers either side of each and every Barrel could be correct. :o :-\ ???

Title: Re: EGC 2015
Post by: Sharon Nelson on January 19, 2015, 05:10:18 PM
My difficulty with remembering Barrelers courses comes from remembering which side of the barrel to go around. 

I am nearly finished Open with Cody so that's 14 barrels.  BUT that is trying to remember 28 pieces of info.... 14 barrels in the right order + 14 sides of barrels.

Other than u shaped tunnels, all other NADAC obstacles have 1 obvious direction for the path.
But in Barrelers either side of each and every Barrel could be correct. :o :-\ ???

I agree!   It isn't about the length of the course that one has to memorize, it is the directionals needed!  Makes us feel like mental idiots, it least it does for me sometimes!!

Sharon
Title: Re: EGC 2015
Post by: Leanne on January 19, 2015, 05:20:02 PM
I finally figured out that it was easier to remember the course by standing outside of it and seeing the path rather than the obstacles. 

If I tried to learn it when standing in the middle I would get all turned around.

Now if only Cody had the distance skills and could run it with me staying on the outside it would be much better ( for me).  He just wasn't raised on barrels like my baby Ketch was.

Course walking time needs to be longer for Barrelers , if it stays the way it is.
Title: Re: EGC 2015
Post by: Leanne on January 19, 2015, 05:37:15 PM
Would clipping number cone covers (like those in the attached picture. )to the outside of the barrels be permissible?

It would be even better if they were numbered with :
1 being red
2 orange
3 yellow
4 green
5 blue
6 purple

My teacher brain would remember this much better.  Might help the judges too!

Might even save time on the walkthroughs since half my time is spent trying to find the number cones!

Title: Re: EGC 2015
Post by: Billie Rosen on January 19, 2015, 06:47:26 PM
Sharon, you are absolutely correct.  I don't have trouble remembering any of the other NADAC courses, except Xtreme Barrelers, and I have NQ'ed more times than I care to remember because I didn't remember the XBR course.

Title: Re: EGC 2015
Post by: Mary Kapner on January 20, 2015, 08:28:38 AM
The only way I remember the Barrelers courses at trial is to memorize
 each previous level run before Elite.  Usually, each level builds off the other.  If we started with Elite, I would have a much harder time of it with my challenged memory.
Title: Re: EGC 2015
Post by: Rebecca Kriz on January 20, 2015, 11:35:00 AM
I'm only 23 and even I have to walk the Elite XBR courses many times before I grasp it.  I'm not looking forward to the Elite walkthroughs gaining more and more people, haha.
Title: Re: EGC 2015
Post by: Shirlene Clark on January 20, 2015, 11:50:44 AM

We will remove the requirement for a Superior level title in EGC before moving to the next level as of now.


So effective immediately if a team has 30 points in an Extreme Games Class they can progress to the next level if they want too ...correct ?
Title: Re: EGC 2015
Post by: Sharon Nelson on January 20, 2015, 01:05:18 PM

We will remove the requirement for a Superior level title in EGC before moving to the next level as of now.


So effective immediately if a team has 30 points in an Extreme Games Class they can progress to the next level if they want too ...correct ?

That is correct.

Sharon
Title: Re: EGC 2015
Post by: Sharon Nelson on January 20, 2015, 01:09:40 PM
I can say with certainty the following:

X-Chances and Gaters will be leaving the EGC class list.  We can work with people who want to finish titles via VT or work with local judges to set courses to help you complete any incomplete titles you want to finish.

Clubs have the option of still running xChances and Gaters if they currently have it on their class list before June 1, 2015

Barrelers will be using the Gaters course designs that everyone loves so much.  No more memory tests for those short Barrelers courses......... fast and fun!!

If clubs want to beta test the Combo class, please let me know.

Sharon

Title: Re: EGC 2015
Post by: Shirlene Clark on January 20, 2015, 01:28:48 PM
I can say with certainty the following:

X-Chances and Gaters will be leaving the EGC class list.  We can work with people who want to finish titles via VT or work with local judges to set courses to help you complete any incomplete titles you want to finish.

Clubs have the option of still running xChances and Gaters if they currently have it on their class list before June 1, 2015

Barrelers will be using the Gaters course designs that everyone loves so much.  No more memory tests for those short Barrelers courses......... fast and fun!!

If clubs want to beta test the Combo class, please let me know.

Sharon

Sharon,

I have left XCC and XGT in our schedule for February (only because I already have entries for it).  I am thinking about dropping XCC and XGT from our March trial and would be happy to give combo class a go.  I am waiting for feedback from the Australian NADAC community as to whether anyone is really keen for me not to drop XCC and XGT until June 1. 
Title: Re: EGC 2015
Post by: DougRicks on January 20, 2015, 01:33:20 PM
Hi Sharon-
This sounds great, and we are lucky for the Extreme Agility Team to have a trial coming up in April and we are just putting together the premium.

Count the EAT team in for the new and improved barrelers, and we all in to run combo as well for the trial. So anyone anywhere near the Seattle area, keep an eye out!

Doug Ricks
Extreme Agility Team
Title: Re: EGC 2015
Post by: Marcy Matties on January 20, 2015, 01:39:48 PM
I can say with certainty the following:

X-Chances and Gaters will be leaving the EGC class list.  We can work with people who want to finish titles via VT or work with local judges to set courses to help you complete any incomplete titles you want to finish.

Clubs have the option of still running xChances and Gaters if they currently have it on their class list before June 1, 2015

Barrelers will be using the Gaters course designs that everyone loves so much.  No more memory tests for those short Barrelers courses......... fast and fun!!

If clubs want to beta test the Combo class, please let me know.

Sharon

Our club has a trial the 2nd week of February and we are offering Extreme Barrelers on Friday evening.  Two questions:  Will our judge have this new format to use for our Barrelers class?  and, if so, will there be an example course posted sometime soon we we can all see and practice a little bit with the new format?

Thanks!
Title: Re: EGC 2015
Post by: tag team on January 20, 2015, 02:27:24 PM
Do you know when the change will take place re: Barrelers courses being like Gaters? 

I signed up for a trial at the end of Jan in AZ.  If the changes will be in place by then, I'd love to add all 4 Barrelers classes.  My dogs both LOVE Gaters, so I know they will love the new...and improved.. from their points of view :)  Barrelers courses.

Dev Sperber, Jake and Lil
Title: Re: EGC 2015
Post by: Sharon Nelson on January 20, 2015, 03:17:27 PM
Hi Sharon-
This sounds great, and we are lucky for the Extreme Agility Team to have a trial coming up in April and we are just putting together the premium.

Count the EAT team in for the new and improved barrelers, and we all in to run combo as well for the trial. So anyone anywhere near the Seattle area, keep an eye out!

Doug Ricks
Extreme Agility Team

Nice Doug!  And that is why EAT is always one of the clubs that is in the forefront with great competitors!   You don't hesitate to jump in and give a new challenge a go!  Your club and students and all competitors will have a blast at your trial!

Well done!

Sharon
Title: Re: EGC 2015
Post by: Sharon Nelson on January 20, 2015, 03:18:37 PM

Our club has a trial the 2nd week of February and we are offering Extreme Barrelers on Friday evening.  Two questions:  Will our judge have this new format to use for our Barrelers class?  and, if so, will there be an example course posted sometime soon we we can all see and practice a little bit with the new format?

Thanks!

To see the course design format for Barrlers, you can take any Gaters courses and replace the gates with barrels, and you will have the exact format to be used.

Sharon
Title: Re: EGC 2015
Post by: Alanna Leach on January 20, 2015, 03:22:51 PM
We have lots of support for the proposed changes to XBR!  Lots of new entries wanting to try it out at the trial next weekend! Will also offer Combo for sure at the next trial, it sounds AWESOME!  Love the forward thinking that is always a part of NADAC and has been part of EGC from the inception. 

Alanna Leach
Avalon Dog Agility Club


Sent by Alanna Leach from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
Title: Re: EGC 2015
Post by: Sharon Nelson on January 20, 2015, 03:28:50 PM
We have lots of support for the proposed changes to XBR!  Lots of new entries wanting to try it out at the trial next weekend! Will also offer Combo for sure at the next trial, it sounds AWESOME!  Love the forward thinking that is always a part of NADAC and has been part of EGC from the inception. 

Alanna Leach
Avalon Dog Agility Club


Sent by Alanna Leach from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

Alanna, you and your club have always been HUGE supporters of EGC!  One of the big differences is that you also offer classes so that your students and local competitors can learn the skills for the classes, so they love them! 

I think that it will be a really GREAT weekend for everyone there next week!  The new updates address any and all issues that have been given to us in the past two years.   We have listened and in the past year have come up with solutions to make EGC even more fun that it was before!

Sharon
Title: Re: EGC 2015
Post by: Marcy Matties on January 20, 2015, 03:47:24 PM

Our club has a trial the 2nd week of February and we are offering Extreme Barrelers on Friday evening.  Two questions:  Will our judge have this new format to use for our Barrelers class?  and, if so, will there be an example course posted sometime soon we we can all see and practice a little bit with the new format?

Thanks!

To see the course design format for Barrlers, you can take any Gaters courses and replace the gates with barrels, and you will have the exact format to be used.

Sharon

Awesome.  Thanks.  Will we be using the new format for trials in February?

Title: Re: EGC 2015
Post by: whultsma on January 20, 2015, 05:12:38 PM
We have an Extreme Games show coming up in February...premium pending approval.  After seeing the comments here...we (Jumping Chollas Agility Club) would be willing to Beta test the new combo class...and it seems that doing so on Thursday of our trial would make most sense...since Wednesday has the two classes that would be kept.

Would it be possible to substitute the Combo class for our X chances class and then still offer the Gaters class that night?

Wendy...in Phoenix...and show secy for that show! :-)
Title: Re: EGC 2015
Post by: Deni on January 20, 2015, 08:30:42 PM
MyAgilityDog would be willing to try the new Combo class at our March trial.  Would it be possible to replace the rounds of X-Gaters we currently have planned with the new Combo class and still do the X-Chances, along with the X-Hoopers and new X-Barrelers?

We've being doing all the EGC classes for quite awhile and I believe we have at least one exhibitor really close to an Extreme Natch.  I think the team only needs 30 or so points in X-Chances and I'd hate to take away the opportunity for them to earn it. 

It's difficult to offer all the classes over a weekend, something to consider is only allowing clubs to offer X-Hoopers and X-Barrelers at trials and then you 'up the ante' and run the X-Combo at Champs, just a thought....
Title: Re: EGC 2015
Post by: Kathy Phelan on January 21, 2015, 10:56:46 AM
X Hoopers is my favorite agility event, barrellers my least. The reason I have so much difficulty remembering barrels courses can be attributed to the length of time it takes me to figure out the course numbering system. Finding the numbers and discerning which side of the barrel to pass takes me so long I don't have any time left to plan a handling strategy so ...most of the time I hardly know where I am or where I'm supposed to direct my dog. My dog barks at me when my handling confuses her and I've had so many painful barrels experiences that I now hyperventilate any time I see a barrel on any kind of course.

I like the idea of 3 EGC events: Hoopers, Barrels on gaters-like courses ,and the combo hoops/barrels course. Count me in anytime EGC or any NADAC events are offered within an 8-10 hr drive. I'm a fan!!
 
 
Title: Re: EGC 2015
Post by: Katrina Tustin on January 21, 2015, 11:12:56 AM
From WA state - we offer 4 trials a year and offer an EGC class each day at 3 of those trials.  We LOVE our EGC games!  When we first started offering EGC it was basically only our own students entering EGC (probably because people who trained elsewhere had never really seen or trained for EGC).  We offered our EGC classes at the end of the day, and the only ones who hung around were those entered in EGC!  So I started adding the EGC classes to the middle of the day so almost everyone who was competing was THERE and would be "forced" to watch!  ;)

After this, our EGC numbers began to grow!  Another local club that holds three trials a year offers Chances and Gaters, and we have always offered Hoopers and Gaters.  This year we will be offering Barrelers in place of Gaters so all FOUR games will be offered in our area (provided all four classes are still around...).  Since EGC games were added I have seen the entries grow in each class.

IMHO a lot of the "fear" has been taken away once people see the courses in a trial and they realize that the courses aren't that scary!  I also think that those who don't want to participate in EGC either train with someone who does not teach and train EGC obstacles or the person does not see the "fun" in running EGC.

I know I can speak for myself and many of our students - WE LOVE OUR EGC GAMES!!!!  Please don't take any of them away!  :D

Thank You,

Katrina
& NATCH Khruiz VERS-E, S-ECC, S-TN-E, O-WV-E, TG-E, HP-E, S-XHP-N, S-XGT-N, XCC-N, BA-2, CGCA
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Title: Re: EGC 2015
Post by: ZapAgility on January 21, 2015, 12:28:42 PM
I love all the ECG games and so do my students. Around here NADAC is not taught by most instructors so their students just don't understand it until they see it. The more they see it, the more they enter.
I would hate to see any of the EGC 'games' go away.
  I'm open to any changes but think adding tunnels to Barrelers courses would really change it.
There are already so many tunnels in agility. Don't get me wrong tunnels are OK but I love, love having different.
(ZAP is looking into hold some weeknight mini EGC trials this year, working on a venue)
Cathy
Title: Re: EGC 2015
Post by: StefanElvstad on January 21, 2015, 01:38:04 PM
The Mt Vernon fun raisers in March - any thought to adding EGC to test and show new formats...
Title: Re: EGC 2015
Post by: Sharon Nelson on January 21, 2015, 01:46:54 PM
MyAgilityDog would be willing to try the new Combo class at our March trial.  Would it be possible to replace the rounds of X-Gaters we currently have planned with the new Combo class and still do the X-Chances, along with the X-Hoopers and new X-Barrelers?

We've being doing all the EGC classes for quite awhile and I believe we have at least one exhibitor really close to an Extreme Natch.  I think the team only needs 30 or so points in X-Chances and I'd hate to take away the opportunity for them to earn it. 

It's difficult to offer all the classes over a weekend, something to consider is only allowing clubs to offer X-Hoopers and X-Barrelers at trials and then you 'up the ante' and run the X-Combo at Champs, just a thought....

Yes, you could switch out Gaters for Combo.  Since the software isn't complete, you would still enter them as Gaters, since it is scored the same.

Sharon
Title: Re: EGC 2015
Post by: Sharon Nelson on January 21, 2015, 01:47:32 PM
The Mt Vernon fun raisers in March - any thought to adding EGC to test and show new formats...

I can talk to Chris!

Sharon
Title: Re: EGC 2015
Post by: LFuller on January 21, 2015, 07:06:21 PM
Sharon,

We have been doing EGC at our trial in Mammoth Lakes, CA for a number of years now. If the decision is made to have three EGC classes, I'd like to make sure I have the class names correct and would also like to be able to describe the classes when I am asked about them.  Are the following the class names:  Extreme Hoopers, Extreme Barrelers, Extreme Combo.  I'm able to describe the XHoopers class because I think it will remain the same as it is right now.  I also understand that XBarrelers will use the "old" XGator's course design but have barrels rather than gates.  It's the XCombo class that I'm not sure how to describe.  Can you give me an example of what the course design will be?  I know that XHoopers and XBarrelers are combined in some way, but how?

XHoopers and XCombo requires the use of gates to build the "hoop/gate circle".  In your very first post announcing a possible change to the EGC classes, you mentioned investigating other options to use in place of the lattice gates.  Have you come up with any possible substitutions?  You mentioned that you tried x-pens . . . I'm trying to picture how that would work.  Sounds like a possible lightweight storable option.

I like the direction that you are taking the EGC classes and can't wait to try them out!
Title: Re: EGC 2015
Post by: mustlovedogstoo on January 21, 2015, 09:55:57 PM
Hi Sharon
It's Annette Kuhls & Lily., black lab, I have to say that back in 2012 when I started running EGC I wasn't so sure about this new set of events but we tried it & I found out that Lily really liked it because you just RUN!  I am a true believer in what it has done for the fluidity, & directional control we've been able to achieve with our runs!  I ran EGC out of state in Canby, OR & South Jordan, Utah Champs the first year, then we finally had some more offerings in 2013/14 in Washington.  We are now running at the OPEN level in X. Gaters, & X Hoopers.  Our favorite is actually Gaters because of the different kinds of skills it requires meaning going through tunnels, around, & on one side or the other of a gate or barrel.  I actually think this event is easiest for baby dogs or fun for older dogs. X Hoopers was "scarey" at first, but really the secret is just to work the path & pretend the gates aren't even there.  Lily likes this one because she just gets to run free with tight turns at full speed.  We did stop running Chances, mainly because we can't run 8 runs in one day x 2 days & we need regular Chances for the natch so I've had to make choices.  I won't be disappointed if that event goes away.  Barrels..... Tried it for awhile, but even though I have a very good memory I find this one hard to remember a course on with so many barrels.  Would just rather have a barrel show up in Regular or TNGo.  I was disappointed when Barrels showed up for Triple Crown qualification for Champs last year because in the Pacific NW very few could even think about running that because although we were qualified in Hoopers,  Barrels wasn't offered much to even try. Hmmmmm, scoring, we are challenged to run against a 6 yd per sec algorithm, but I tend to think its fine, you just have to understand the rules & strategy that goes with it.  I do like the fact that you added 5, 10, 15 pt Q's.
So in closing I am hoping that you offer my 2 favorite events X Hoopers, & X Gaters, because they are all on the ground & I think dogs can keep running these well into their senior years & have a lot of FUN!!
Title: Re: EGC 2015
Post by: Dan Roy on January 22, 2015, 05:59:37 AM
EGC Classes are what I found the most ingenious part of NADAC agility. It's innovative! We always include them at our trials. For me, the most challenging part of EGC, besides loading up the necessary gates, has been memorizing the course and running fast enough to direct the dog on the efficient path. I trust that the NADAC staff will make the right changes to EGC to have it continue as part of the sport.

Dan Roy
Performance Dog Training
Title: Re: EGC 2015
Post by: jrtsdoitall on January 22, 2015, 10:54:43 AM
There isn't a lot of EGC in our area but I enter when I can. We love Hoopers, Barrelers, and Gaters. I enjoy working handling and having options for young, old, and/or in training dogs that still love to play but may benefit from fewer jumps and contacts.

I also love Extreme Chances, though rarely enter it right now. It's a bit beyond the skill level I feel I have with the dogs at this time. Plus when we do have EGC, the trials aren't large and when you run 3 dogs that's a lot of running in a short time. Especially when you are NOT as fit as your dogs! :P  So for now we play the other 3 games, continue to skill build, and hope to play extreme chances soon.

Laura (MN)
Title: Re: EGC 2015
Post by: patricia.siveny on January 22, 2015, 01:15:42 PM
Sharon,
Can you tell me more about the Extreme Combo options? Or where to find the changes
Title: Re: EGC 2015
Post by: Sharon Nelson on January 22, 2015, 04:24:04 PM
I have been having some very fun and exciting talks with a couple people about doing an EGC Gamblers class instead of combo............ so far it sounds really FUN!!  Make your own course, do the distance test, strategize and go fast!

Still in the talking stage, but rather fun conversations!  (thanks to Doug Ricks for starting this conversation!).  Don't know where it will go, but sounding quite fun.

Sharon
Title: Re: EGC 2015
Post by: patricia.siveny on January 22, 2015, 04:53:45 PM
I guess I just found out we are going to add X Combo to our trial so I was just trying to find out what were the changes....So what is X Gamblers. I'm game for anything but not a lot of info on what is happening.
Title: Re: EGC 2015
Post by: Rebecca Kriz on January 22, 2015, 05:18:52 PM
Oh, man, I'm not the biggest fan of 'make your own course' games, but that sure sounds like a different and fun challenge!  I really like the idea of that instead of combo.  (I don't see the point of having two numbered courses with the gate circle.)
Title: Re: EGC 2015
Post by: Sharon Nelson on January 22, 2015, 05:38:46 PM
I guess I just found out we are going to add X Combo to our trial so I was just trying to find out what were the changes....So what is X Gamblers. I'm game for anything but not a lot of info on what is happening.

We are having a discussion....... not announcing changes for the X Gamblers, that is why there is nothing written up about it.  We are just talking about it as a group.

Sharon
Title: Re: EGC 2015
Post by: ZapAgility on January 22, 2015, 09:41:11 PM
EGC Gamblers???
Happy Dance, Happy Dance!
I always love Gamblers (back in the day) and I love EGC, what a fun combo that would be :-)
Title: Re: EGC 2015
Post by: Heidi Konesko on January 23, 2015, 04:19:33 AM
I am intrigued by the idea of a Gamblers type thing.  I do like the challenge of making up my own course every once in a while.  And I do find it a challenge.  I think it's good for my brain, and for my handling skills!  And if it's done the NADAC way I'm guessing that there will probably be options that are in flow!  Neat!
-Heidi in NH
Title: Re: EGC 2015
Post by: Janice_Shavor on January 23, 2015, 07:15:07 AM
This is just a suggestion in terms of the morph from Gaters to Barrelers.  Although I have small dogs (Vallhunds and previously Corgis) I deeply sympathize with those folks running the long legged dogs for whom tunnels are physically difficult.  Why not have some gates in that class?  Never where the dog must go around the gate but where the challenge is to pass by on the correct side.

And I would LOVE (Happy, Happy dance) a class where there is handler strategy added.  That is what I miss about the old gamblers. I did see a competitor in another venue pull her dog off the top of the down ramp when she misjudged the opening time and then understood the reason for changing.  And I miss (due to jump height differences) that game Snooker, absolutely one of my favorites.  And I would love a strategy game combining handler thinking as well as dog agility skills. 

I love Chances.  And from the perspective of course changes, etc. I think it was a great solution to the distance challenges when Gamblers went away.  It took time to get there.  We will have patience.

If I take any retired Gaters course and remove the gates and replace with barrels then that would be an approximation to train with, right?
Title: Re: EGC 2015
Post by: tag team on January 23, 2015, 01:57:03 PM
Oh WOW!  I think EGC Gamblers would be a great addition!  I can already imagine how much fun it would be to come up with strategies and courses my dogs would love AND to try and figure out the timing of how many obstacles I thought my dogs would complete in the time allotted... plus finding a fluid way to mix in the distance challenge.

Ideally I'd want a copy of a course map to contemplate various options prior to walking.   Is that greedy?  :)    I think I could make do with a shared public map but I would want to have access to a course map before walking the course... especially if the trial ran small to tall that day... which usually means I run first.

Regardless of the map, what a GREAT IDEA to have EGC Gamblers.

Dev Sperber, Jake and Lil
Title: Re: EGC 2015
Post by: Lynne Almeida on January 24, 2015, 06:10:40 PM
The Gamblers option could be cool and fun!  It could add back in the "d.i.y." course that used to be Strategic Hoopers, which I think is so fun but which I don't see offered very often these days.
Title: Re: EGC 2015
Post by: cheyaut on January 27, 2015, 05:45:36 AM
I guess I'm the only one who doesn't like the idea of XGamblers! I never did like Gamblers back in the day. I have a hard time figuring out my own course. But if it happens, I don't have to enter that class :) I also won't enter strategic hoopers for the same reason. I know many love it, but it just doesn't work well with my brain lol

Looking forward to trying out the new things at our JCAC EGC trial in Feb :)
Title: Re: EGC 2015
Post by: quamashbcs@yahoo.com on January 27, 2015, 09:26:40 PM
Gamblers is my favourite class of all time in any venue!!! We do very well in Chances but the opportunity for my dogs to CHOOSE the course and still qualify is PRICELESS....
Title: Re: EGC 2015
Post by: Margaret MacEwen on January 31, 2015, 06:46:45 PM
I know I am a little late in responding to this request, but I love EGC and wanted to share my opinion.
I really wish more clubs (in the east) offered EGC Chances.  The few times I have done it, I loved it and my dogs loved it.  It is a true handling challenge.  My more recently trained dogs learned agility on hoops and tunnels first and then we added the other obstacles, so they get it.

EGC Hoopers has GOT to stay of course! The most innovative thing in agility in years!

I have one dog in Elite EGC Barrelers and would love it if tunnels were added (I think, until I have tried it, LOL) because it is so difficult for the human to remember the courses with just barrels and hoops, especially at the Elite level when you take each barrel multiple times in different directions.

I also like Gaters since my other dog excels at that but I understand the need to narrow it down.  I think Barrelers and Gaters could be combined and called EGC Barrelers.

I am so glad NADAC offers so many options since my dogs all have their own preferences and special talents.

Thanks for keeping things fresh!

Margaret MacEwen
Tempe Wick, Crew and (soon) Jersey
Title: Re: EGC 2015
Post by: Janet Ooms on February 14, 2015, 07:49:21 PM
Hi Sharon,

At our February trial we are offering Extreme Gaters and Extreme Barrelers.  Will the classes stay the same or will Gaters stay the same and Barrelers change to the modified Gaters format?  So exciting, love the proposed changes included the Extreme Gamblers:)

Thanks

Janet
Title: Re: EGC 2015
Post by: debrasweat on February 16, 2015, 08:27:09 PM
I did EGC for the first time at Champs in 2010 in Gillette and LOVED it and my girls love
 it as well. I have to be honest though, I am not as excited about doing barrels as I am about the Extreme Hooopers, Gaters and Chances !!!!! If I had to choose, I would keep Extreme Hoopers and Extreme Gaters.


                      Debra Sweat
Title: Re: EGC 2015
Post by: Leanne on February 23, 2015, 03:53:54 AM
So once we star seeing the new Barrelers and and the Gamblers...
What level should we enter ?
Since the new Barrelers  is like the old Gaters but with barrels instead of gates, do we enter at whatever level we were at for Gaters?   Or the level we were at for the old Barrelers?

And since EGC gamblers is new,  do we start at novice or can we pick up where we left off in EGC. Chances?

And will we still be required to go to superiors before moving up?

Excited to try the new ones and very very thankful to not have to keep remembering those old Barrelers courses.
Title: Re: EGC 2015
Post by: Sharon Nelson on February 23, 2015, 08:12:50 AM
So once we star seeing the new Barrelers and and the Gamblers...
What level should we enter ?
Since the new Barrelers  is like the old Gaters but with barrels instead of gates, do we enter at whatever level we were at for Gaters?   Or the level we were at for the old Barrelers?

And since EGC gamblers is new,  do we start at novice or can we pick up where we left off in EGC. Chances?

And will we still be required to go to superiors before moving up?

Excited to try the new ones and very very thankful to not have to keep remembering those old Barrelers courses.

You will remain at your current level of Barrelers, that doesn't change.

For EGC Gamblers, you may start at Intro/Novice or you may continue at whatever level you were at in EGC Chances.

You only need 30 points at a level before moving up.

Sharon
Title: Re: EGC 2015
Post by: MoabDiane on February 23, 2015, 09:21:13 AM
Sharon, is it possible to "tag" that last post re entry levels somehow?
I'm sure when the time comes, I won't be able to find it!
Maybe a subject that cannot be replied to (or can, I don't know...) - "Entry levels for new EGC classes" or some such.

Thanks - can't wait to try these out!

diane
Title: Re: EGC 2015
Post by: Sharon Nelson on February 23, 2015, 09:33:13 AM
Sharon, is it possible to "tag" that last post re entry levels somehow?
I'm sure when the time comes, I won't be able to find it!
Maybe a subject that cannot be replied to (or can, I don't know...) - "Entry levels for new EGC classes" or some such.

Thanks - can't wait to try these out!

diane

Done!

Sharon
Title: Re: EGC 2015
Post by: A Jussero on February 23, 2015, 01:39:21 PM
Since E Gaters is going away, will those Q/points be able to apply to something else, like the "new" E Barrels?
Title: Re: EGC 2015
Post by: Lynne Almeida on February 23, 2015, 06:20:22 PM
Our practice group set the sample EGC Gamblers course last week and everyone, from experienced to beginner teams, really enjoyed it - people and dogs both!  We all had fun talking about course strategies that might work for different dogs, and the dogs all had a blast.  At one point, one person said, "Gamblers?  This should be called Extreme Fun!"

Can't wait to see more of these courses out and about!