NADAC Forum

General => General Discussion => Topic started by: dogrsqr on June 20, 2012, 10:47:23 AM

Title: Ways to promote NADAC agility
Post by: dogrsqr on June 20, 2012, 10:47:23 AM
Since there has been some discussion in other threads about declining entries I thought I'd start a discussion of what we can do to promote NADAC agility.  Any ideas?

We were wondering if offering some fun runs with NADAC style courses might get some folks to come out an give it a try and hopefully get hooked on the style.  I think some people might come out just to train, but I'm not sure if people who are already trialing would be willing to give up time and money for fun runs especially if they're already set against NADAC.

I'd also like to know if anyone has any thoughts/ways to counter the anti-NADAC attitude we see at many training facilities in our area.  I personally believe that an instructor should never tell their students which venues to participate in. I also really don't understand why people complain about venues that they choose not to participate in.  Is there any hope to get people to just enjoy what they do and be quiet about what they choose not to do?

Gina Pizzo
Title: Re: Ways to promote NADAC agility
Post by: Jeanne Allen on June 20, 2012, 12:55:58 PM
Gina,

I think in my area and it may be true in other areas as well, is what you said in your last paragraph.  It does come down to the instructors!  I agree that instructors should be neutral and train all the venues, but in my area most of the instructors seem to focus on only one venue, and it is not NADAC.

It would be nice to try and counter the anti-NADAC attitude, but I think some people have not even tried NADAC but they go on what others have said and go along with them.  There is one venue that I did try, but for reasons I will not go into here, I am not ever going to do that venue again!  When I go to local trials in that venue just to watch my friends and people ask me if I am going to run by dogs, I just politely say that I am not running my dogs because that venue just did not work out for me!  No venue bashing and no anti-remarks, although I could if anyone really wanted to know why I am not doing that venue any more.

One thing that we may try is if we hear someone saying negative things about NADAC, maybe we can first ask them if they have tried it, and if they had, maybe ask a few more questions to see why they do not like NADAC.  If they have not tried NADAC then politely ask why they hate something they have never tried?

I am with you in that I can also hope that people will just enjoy what ever venue makes them and their dogs happy and stop bashing the venues they do not like!
Title: Re: Ways to promote NADAC agility
Post by: TheQuestKnight on June 20, 2012, 02:10:18 PM
Hi Gina,

I think that all of us that LOVE NADAC as our only/primary venue are as stumped as you and others are.

One trend that I have noticed over time is the increasing number of businesses that are venue certified to host trials, vis-a-vis clubs, with their constitutions, officers, etc..  Although not exclusive to businesses, many groups have multiple "letterheads" for the same organization so they can host trials form multiple venues, even when some venues require "club name exclusivity".  The venues, it seems to me, have also gotten pretty lax about enforcing their own policies of "exclusivity" as long as they get their $$, which complicates the problem.

Given the state of the economy, it's a good "business model" that keeps a business or clubs consumers tied to the club or business, provided the consumers are willing to participate in multiple venues if it means staying close to home with lower fuel expenses and without lodging expenses . . . and minimal food expenses.

In the current economic conditions, it might be a better focus to work to hold onto the "core" exhibitors that one has . . . and try to plan accordingly so trials don't lose money.  Beyond that, perhaps the best that can be done is to encourage participants in other venues and uncommitted students to come and observe a local NADAC trial . . . at least give the venue a fair "look-see" before deciding not to participate in it.

The lack of instructors to teach NADAC-needed skills and/or their refusal to teach those skills is a problem that seemingly defies an answer; because NADAC-needed skills transfer to ALL other venues.  However, that inability or unwillingness to teach those skills automatically prejudices their students against venues that their instructor cannot or will not teach skills for . . .

At the present time, I would guess that we have less than 2 dozen NADAC exhibitors left in the state of Ohio . . . and we're spread all over the state . . . and only one Ohio club that is doing their very best to offer 3 trials from Spring to Autumn with very limited entries.

I guess at this point in time, if one is in one of the really tough NADAC areas, the best thing that I would offer is that you try to survive until the economy picks up and folks are willing and financially able to travel greater distances and afford the additional expenses to trial outside of their immediate area.

Adding one returning exhibitor per trial . . . or even one per year to your exhibitor base may not seem like much; but at least it's a step in the right direction.

NADAC is, by far, the most difficult venue that I and my dogs have participated in; but it's also been the most rewarding for me and the best for my dogs.

Popularity among the venues for predominantly agility-only folks seems to have an ebb and flow in many areas for many different reasons.  While NADAC has seen steady growth overall, there are some of us walking through the tidal pools searching for trials in the tidal pools . . .

I sense that the tide is shifting, albeit very slowly, in many areas that are beginning to see a slight resurgence in the number of exhibitors and numbers of trials.

     
Title: Re: Ways to promote NADAC agility
Post by: Scott Casino on June 20, 2012, 07:31:10 PM
Quick idle thought  ??? regarding instructors "steering" their students to/from certain venues...perhaps we might find ways to positively reinforce them for coming to NADAC trials. Lisa Bonker mentioned (in another thread) creating a "Refer-a-Friend" program...how about adapting it to instructors? "Bring 3 of your students to an NADAC trial and get a free day of runs" or something like that?

I do think that some instructors who are not comfortable teaching skills needed for a specific venue will probably not encourage their students to participate in those venues. So how do we get those instructors proficient in teaching NADAC skills?

Title: Re: Ways to promote NADAC agility
Post by: Linda W. Anderson on June 20, 2012, 08:13:58 PM
Scott, you bring up a very valid point.  I have had local club members tell me they don't want to attend our club's classes because we only teach "NADAC" skills (which is not true).  I want to say, isn't a dog walk a dog walk, an A-frame an A-frame?  Many of the skills used/taught in NADAC style classes are used in all venues. 

I do believe people teach what they know and if the instructor only competes in one venue, they will naturally feel more comfortable teaching that style of handling.  If the students only learn that type of handling, they will feel more comfortable in that venue.  What really baffles me are the local people who used to compete in NADAC and are now doing another venue say they don't know how to teach for NADAC.  Go figure!

Linda
Title: Re: Ways to promote NADAC agility
Post by: Lisa Schmit In The Zone Agility on June 21, 2012, 04:59:05 AM
I do believe having instructors that teach NADAC skills or at the very least do not venue bash NADAC is the key.    If my sister Chrissy did not teach classes at her place, I am absolutely certain I would not be having trials at her place.   Now, 95% of the people attending these trials are her students.        Chrissy does an AWESOME job ( not biased at all heeheh)   She primarily sets NADAC style courses,   the distance, confidence, motivation, speed etc she teaches her students transfers over to other venues.  All of her students multi venue.   In fact in the spring we went to another venue trial to watch and I could pick out Chrissy's students in a heartbeat as they handled very well  and definitely 'stuck' out and looked good !     

But Chrissy is one person with 2 small children.  She is very limited in time and does not have an indoor (We keep dreaming) .    People are starting to travel over an hour to take private lessons with her ! YEAH...so we are hoping that when ready, these students will come trial and also bring friends !!!

I am a wanderer and am not in one place long enough to do classes.   

Scott- maybe I should try to instructor thing too.  Rae Hart had mentioned that to me before but I completely forgot about it.       

The two areas that i have trials il IL are heavy agility places.    In Joliet, there are at least 4 agility training facilities within a half hour but they are not NADAC related  (even though one club puts on one nadac trial)  ..overall these students do not attend my trials.  On Occasion we will have a person come but with all the agility going on in the area and the fact that we used to have 2 ring full trials years ago, it is very disappointing.    There are a few other NADAC clubs in northern IL, but most of these students just don't travel south. With the addition to  I355, it makes connecting Northern IL with southwest Chicagoland area easy.   But still, only a few die hard NADAC people will travel even an hour to attend trials.

By Chrissy's (near Springfield) there are a few non NADAC clubs within a hour drive.  Slowly, people are coming.  Thus ---my refer a friend idea.   Here, we never had NADAC and it is more 'new' to the area.   In Joliet, NADAC was strong years ago, and people left and keep leaving.     

For the 2 june trials I had in IL one in Joliet and one by Chrissys--- I sent out premiums to most every club in the area.  I spend lots of time printing and stapling premiums !!!  I really tried to advertise more hoping to get the one new person......

I did get one new person at Chrissy's that had a GREAT TIME. She came for one day (one day at a time) but really enjoyed herself.  She told me that the places she trains is antinadac and hates hoops. They don't see it as on obstacle.  She said she found the hoops very challenging.  I told her about how awesome hoops are for training regardless of venue and how very easy hoops are to make.  I encouraged her to make a few hoops and bring them to her training facility !   I should email her and see how that went !!

Doing VT runs at Chrissy's has helped a little.....   

I thought about trying to go to other clubs renting the building/field for a day and doing a NADAC style mini workshop kinda thing......introduction to NADAC.
this may be something I may do in the springfield area as there are no other nadac clubs and this may help introduce people to nadac.    But honestly, I don't have much time and my schedule is crazy .

Any other thoughts??



Title: Re: Ways to promote NADAC agility
Post by: CheriMo on June 21, 2012, 06:03:29 AM
>>I'd also like to know if anyone has any thoughts/ways to counter the anti-NADAC attitude we see at many training facilities in our area.  I personally believe that an instructor should never tell their students which venues to participate in. I also really don't understand why people complain about venues that they choose not to participate in.  Is there any hope to get people to just enjoy what they do and be quiet about what they choose not to do?<<

I think this is a generalization that you cannot make. While it may be true in some cases it is not true in all cases. As I have repeatedly said, to address low participation you have to definitively determine the cause of the low participation in trials. When you guess or speculate on the cause of low entries (economy, knowledge, etc.), the result is that you'll use a marketing method that may not target the appropriate community or address the issue that needs to be addressed to increase participation.

In my area, I know instructors who aren't keen on NADAC and others who primarily teach and support NADAC. However the instructors I know who aren't keen on NADAC certainly never discourage anyone from participating in a NADAC trial. And while the instructors aren't keen on NADAC, the reason is never discussed with students. Nothing negative concerning NADAC has ever been displayed to a student. My local instructors realize that there are all sorts of reasons for liking/disliking the different venues and they let the students come to their own conclusions about each venue. All local trials are presented as opportunities to students, regardless of venue.

NADAC is my most successful venue. Of the 4 venues in which I compete, my dog has the fastest times, the highest Q rate, and highest placement rate in NADAC. However I don't like NADAC. Of the four venues in which I compete, it's my least favorite. Because of that I will not travel to participate in a NADAC trial. I only participate in local trials and only to support my local club. If it weren't for the local club, I would never do NADAC again, regardless of our level of success. Therefore, in my case, making sure I know about a particular trial would not get me to enter that trial (unless it were local). Giving me discounts will also not sway me. What if the bulk of the people you need to influence, the largest community you need to reach to get to enter your trial, are similar to me? People who know the venue, are familiar with it, have competed in it in the past, have chosen to no longer participate, and have migrated to other venues. If that is the case you need to find out why and fix the issue that drove them away. Otherwise you will not be able to get people to return.

Just food for thought.

Cheri 
Title: Re: Ways to promote NADAC agility
Post by: Chris Nelson on June 21, 2012, 08:55:59 AM
>>I'd also like to know if anyone has any thoughts/ways to counter the anti-NADAC attitude we see at many training facilities in our area.  I personally believe that an instructor should never tell their students which venues to participate in. I also really don't understand why people complain about venues that they choose not to participate in.  Is there any hope to get people to just enjoy what they do and be quiet about what they choose not to do?<<

I think this is a generalization that you cannot make. While it may be true in some cases it is not true in all cases. As I have repeatedly said, to address low participation you have to definitively determine the cause of the low participation in trials. When you guess or speculate on the cause of low entries (economy, knowledge, etc.), the result is that you'll use a marketing method that may not target the appropriate community or address the issue that needs to be addressed to increase participation.

In my area, I know instructors who aren't keen on NADAC and others who primarily teach and support NADAC. However the instructors I know who aren't keen on NADAC certainly never discourage anyone from participating in a NADAC trial. And while the instructors aren't keen on NADAC, the reason is never discussed with students. Nothing negative concerning NADAC has ever been displayed to a student. My local instructors realize that there are all sorts of reasons for liking/disliking the different venues and they let the students come to their own conclusions about each venue. All local trials are presented as opportunities to students, regardless of venue.

NADAC is my most successful venue. Of the 4 venues in which I compete, my dog has the fastest times, the highest Q rate, and highest placement rate in NADAC. However I don't like NADAC. Of the four venues in which I compete, it's my least favorite. Because of that I will not travel to participate in a NADAC trial. I only participate in local trials and only to support my local club. If it weren't for the local club, I would never do NADAC again, regardless of our level of success. Therefore, in my case, making sure I know about a particular trial would not get me to enter that trial (unless it were local). Giving me discounts will also not sway me. What if the bulk of the people you need to influence, the largest community you need to reach to get to enter your trial, are similar to me? People who know the venue, are familiar with it, have competed in it in the past, have chosen to no longer participate, and have migrated to other venues. If that is the case you need to find out why and fix the issue that drove them away. Otherwise you will not be able to get people to return.

Just food for thought.

Cheri
From a purely scientific and analytical view I agree completely about needing to know why people left in order to get them back, but that is probably about as far as it goes with us agreeing.

Ever since I have gotten heavily involved in NADAC I have kept a very keen eye on statistics.  Number of active dogs, active handlers and also in which areas the numbers are increasing, or decreasing.

And it doesn't take a survey to see the connection between instrructors and entries.   Every area that has a core group of instructors whom support and trial in NADAC also has a much greater following by their students.

That is not a debatable opinion, that is a fact.

And while we could go have everyone take a survey on their likes and dislikes we won't because at a certain point common sense has to take over.   Plus the fact that we already know why certain people leave NADAC.   When people leave NADAC they tend to be very vocal about it.  One of those things I tend to never understand.  I cut down on drinking soda about a month ago, but I don't really feel this burning desire to email the cola distributors or post on facebook about how terrible soda is and that anyone drinking it must be a couple fries short of a happy meal.     Do I think everyone should cut down to one, or zero sodas a day?  Yeah absolutely.  It would make the entire country healthier, child obesity could start to be curbed and you just feel better.   But at the end of the day I am not your guardian angel nor am I your guiding light.   If you ask my my opinion I will gladly give it, with passion.  I will not feel the need to respond on every topic in which I do not agree with.    While I do not expect the rest of the world to live by my rules, I do expect a certain level of common courtesy and respect.


And the other little fact is that for 90% of the agility community this is a social sport.   The other 10% are serious competitors who are going for that tighter turn, more consistent contact or bigger distance.   But those 90% are going to a trial to have fun.  And it tends to be a little bit hard to have fun when the other competitors are constantly vocalizing how much they dislike the venue they are competing in.   And we DO get plenty of emails about these little occurences.   I think it would amaze most people just how much feedback we do get from the agility community when it comes to negative people at trials.   With a lot of competitors saying they will often avoid certain trials all together just to avoid those people.



And since I am getting a little long winded here I will wrap it up.


We do know why certain people leave NADAC.

We do know why certain areas are not growing.

And here is also what we do know.


We know that we cannot change our venue to match every competitors ideals.  We already make quite a few concessions just in an attempt to hit an 'average'.

We do know that you cannot change a persons mind in a discussion.  This is a little bit of knowledge that I learned at a very young age.  Discussions are great, but 95% of the time you will not be altering the opinion of the person you are debating with.  You will be affecting the views of the people listening in.

So with that in mind, why would we get into a heated discussion about why these people should do NADAC, when they clearly do not like NADAC.   Hoops are here to stay.  Barrels will happen. 

Do not try to tell me I need to drink soda.



Title: Re: Ways to promote NADAC agility
Post by: Chris Nelson on June 21, 2012, 09:10:28 AM
And I guess just in case some folks don't understand my form of speech. Where I tend to allude to an opinion rather than state it directly.  I will get a little more direct so that there are no discrepancies.

The trials are biggest where instructors support NADAC.  Fact.

The trials are smallest where instructors either do not support NADAC, or bash NADAC.  Fact.

Instructors do bash the venues they do not like.  And while maybe in certain areas the instructors are the perfect example of humility and can truly support their students in any ventures they choose.  That is not the norm.  I have personally seen far too many examples in my short life, of competitors feeling awkward going to a NADAC trial because their instructor doesn't support it. Especially when I go to an area that isn't big on NADAC.   They want support, they want their friends.   And if their friends/instructors do not support them, they will not go.   Seen it too many times for it to be any sort of coincidence.   
Title: Re: Ways to promote NADAC agility
Post by: dmadrid on June 21, 2012, 10:06:17 AM
I think about this a lot... the NADAC vs. other venues divide.  Here are some thoughts I had this morning:

I think for many people, the question comes down to one of relevance.  Simply put, the skills you need to succeed in NADAC (distance, obstacle discrimination, especially) are not seen as relevant to other venues (I disagree).  But, if you trial in AKC & USDAA, it is easy to see how the skills for one venue transfer to the other.  The obstacle list is the same, course design is similar, and even the YPS requirements are similar.  On the other hand, if you come to a NADAC show, some obstacles are missing, and some new ones are added, the course design is very different, times are tighter, and there is a much bigger emphasis on distance, directionals, and speed.  The focus is different. 

One of my instructors competes successfully in all three venues with his dogs.  The skills he needs to be successful in Elite Chances (for instance) actually do translate very well to AKC & USDAA courses (think about how easy even Masters gamble lines are for teams that really excel at chances!).  In class, he's had us do several series of a few weeks of distance work.  At first, quite a few of the people in the class who were AKC only competitors questioned it, but he kept pointing out instances where he's used distance skills on a tough AKC course, etc... and once they learned a bit more and got more comfortable, they came around.  I think a couple of them have even entered their club's NADAC show this spring.

So, that's a good thing... but I don't see these folks traveling for a couple hours to go to an out of town NADAC show.  They've come around enough to support their club... but NADAC is not (and will not) be a serious thing for them.  And, that's only one instructor.  Earlier this year, another instructor in the same club was going to tell her students NOT to come to a local show-n-go that was going to feature NADAC equipment and NADAC style courses.

Last weekend I was at a USDAA show and overheard one competitor telling another that she should come to the NADAC show in a few weeks, since her young dog needed ring practice and in NADAC you can train in the ring.  I'm sure she'll come... but she's coming to practice, and once her dog gets over his jitters, I think she'll move on.  This attitude is not uncommon here, and I've seen a few other competitors come to start their young dogs in NADAC and then disappear.  Runs are cheaper (overall) and you can train in the ring... so it really is the ideal venue for young dogs. 

There are things to like and dislike about any venue.  I used to dislike hoops, I am now indifferent to them.  I am not excited to see barrels (and yes, Anja and I do play and practice sends around all sorts of things all the time... trees, lamp posts, planters, chairs, whatever), but I accept that they are coming.  But as NADAC grows more and more different, I wouldn't be surprised to see fewer and fewer cross-venue folks... I think a lot of people want to play a certain game, and while you can change some rules, at a certain point if you change enough of them, they won't think they're playing the same game anymore. 

unfortunately, I don't think this is a problem that will go away.  I don't think the trick is to get other venue folks to come to NADAC... long term, I don't think it's a successful strategy.  As Chris pointed out, we need instructors teaching NADAC skills, and perhaps most importantly, teaching their students that those skills are useful in multiple venues.  An instructor that trials (successfully) in several venues might be the most powerful tool to get more new folks to NADAC... but that is a process that will take some time.
Title: Re: Ways to promote NADAC agility
Post by: CheriMo on June 21, 2012, 10:09:06 AM
And I guess just in case some folks don't understand my form of speech. Where I tend to allude to an opinion rather than state it directly.  I will get a little more direct so that there are no discrepancies.

The trials are biggest where instructors support NADAC.  Fact.

The trials are smallest where instructors either do not support NADAC, or bash NADAC.  Fact.

Instructors do bash the venues they do not like.  And while maybe in certain areas the instructors are the perfect example of humility and can truly support their students in any ventures they choose.  That is not the norm.  I have personally seen far too many examples in my short life, of competitors feeling awkward going to a NADAC trial because their instructor doesn't support it. Especially when I go to an area that isn't big on NADAC.   They want support, they want their friends.   And if their friends/instructors do not support them, they will not go.   Seen it too many times for it to be any sort of coincidence.

And that is not an absolute fact. It is anecdotal. I know that it is anecdotal because I know of instructors who hate NADAC with a passion yet they encourage students to attend NADAC trials. I did not say it is coincidence. I'm saying that without doing research of the market to determine for certain why people are not attending trials your information is purely speculation on your part. While you might be right, you could also be totally wrong. Only research of the market will show the actual facts.
Title: Re: Ways to promote NADAC agility
Post by: Chris Nelson on June 21, 2012, 10:37:16 AM
Good thing I didn't put the 'fact' after that third statement   ;)

I think that's great that the trainers in your area feel and teach that way.

In my experience and opinion, which is based on a little wider and varied group of people...it's just not the case.

And the numbers, which tend to be pretty honest, don't agree either.
Title: Re: Ways to promote NADAC agility
Post by: TheQuestKnight on June 21, 2012, 11:11:27 AM
Hey Chris . . .

I gave up sugary sodas for dry wine years ago! <G> . . . not sure that it's any healthier; but . . . 

You spoke the plain, simple truth substantiated by the statistics that NADAC monitors . . .

One of the major things that has frustrated me with agility in general for the last 10 years is the emphasis on MARKETING a venue . . . and the way that some venues seem to go in whatever direction that garners them a larger share of the market.

NADAC has always sought exhibitor input; but they've NEVER capitulated to exhibitors' desires if it didn't fit the NADAC concept of agility and meet NADAC's standards for dog safety.

Just like politicians and voters, agility exhibitors in some areas have become increasingly polarized and have engaged in negativity and dis-information when it comes to venues that they don't like.  I've done it myself, so I really can't be critical that have vocal opinions that differ from mine.

Clearly, an area with good NADAC instruction can thrive in the midst of other venues . . . proof is all over this country and Canada . . .

It seems to me that the only venue that has "complete coverage" in the USA is the AKC . . . and they had a well-established network established because of conformation, obedience, etc. . . . all of the other registries seem to have "hot spots" and "cool/cold zones" . . .

My wife and I have played in virtually every venue available to us since the beginning of USDAA and NDAC . . . and we settled on NADAC in 2005 because it was the BEST FIT for us.  Sure I've got opinions about the other venues and I'll willingly share them . . . OFF THIS LIST . . . most are positive, some others . . . not so much . . .

We live in a NADAC "near sub-Arctic zone", so we've resigned ourselves to fewer trials at more distant locations, so trial weekends tend to be on the expensive side, so we don't do as many as we would if we opted to trial in venues that are "in our backyard" . . .

In all honesty, in northeast Ohio, only a fool or a multi-millionaire could undertake the task of establishing NADAC here.  If you don't have a state-of-the-art trial facility, people won't come . . . regardless of venue . . . except for the die-hards.  Indoor training facilities are mandatory because folks want to train year 'round.  All this translates into needing a BIG bankroll just to get started . . . and BIG MONEY behind one that can withstand the losses for several years or more . . .

I'm not complaining about our situation . . . it is what it is, as it were . . .

We are EXTREMELY GRATEFUL for those organizations that host trials that we are able to attend from time-to-time . . . and for the knowledge gained over time that permit us to set up NADAC style mini-courses for our kids to play on at home on a regular basis.

There is only so much net disposable income to be spent on agility in any given market area.  The more venues/options that exist, one needs to look at the venue hierarchy . . . and that doesn't really take much in the way of intensive research . . . it can all be done on the computer.

If your chosen venue is in the Omega dog's position, you're facing a Sissiphysian task . . .

. . . and the god Hades is likely to win, Persephone is not likely going to come to your rescue . . .

All that we can do is support NADAC host organizations when and where we can . . . and support NADAC because we believe in NADAC.

Uncomfortable fact . . . life is rarely fair . . . many times it sucks . . . things are what they are and sometimes, despite our best intentions, we are powerless to change them . . .   
Title: Re: Ways to promote NADAC agility
Post by: agilityjunkie on June 21, 2012, 11:17:19 AM
I have found a great way to promote NADAC is to hold the BA-1 and BA-2 trials. We teach a lot of beginner classes and offering these tests are a fantastic way to get newbies interested in competition. Right off the bat our new students are getting a NADAC number which is a commitment, of sorts, to NADAC competition. We offer a plaque for these titles. Soon, I will offer my first VT runs, but the BA tests have increased our numbers and the interest in doing more NADAC competition.
Title: Re: Ways to promote NADAC agility
Post by: LeeAnne McAdam on June 22, 2012, 05:17:21 AM
It would be nice to be able to come to the NADAC forum and not be confronted with people who hate NADAC.  I know we're all entitled to our own opinions, but I make it a practice not to discuss with folks who trial in other venues what I think of their decision.  What others choose to do with their dogs is no skin off my nose and criticizing others just takes away from the mindset of having fun with my own. 

Title: Re: Ways to promote NADAC agility
Post by: tag team on June 22, 2012, 05:34:41 AM
How is this for an idea?  Instructors offer local workshops (or 6 week classes) on "Speed and Motivation" and not make any reference to NADAC.    I have seen a lot of dogs (small dogs in particular) who never really open up their strides and run at other venues like AKC and USDAA, and it is especially noticeable on widely-spaced, straight jumps. 

Earlier this year, I realized my 2 Australian Terriers did not know how to run full-out AND jump well on straight aways because I never really trained it (I believe many small dogs have the same hole in their training and really struggle with jumping as a result). Prior to my recent shift to NADAC, I had been mostly competing in USDAA and some local AKC.  But over the past 4 months I've been participating in Silvia Trkman's on-line Agility Foundations class and through that process, both of my dogs learned how to run fast AND do agility at the same time, including running fast and jumping over widely-spaced straight jumps.  :)  Their YPS have definitely increased along with the level of fun we all have!   

Who would think doing a class with Silvia Trkman would lead me to NADAC, but it did!  The reason is because I had an opportunity to watch a bunch of dogs (a wide range of breeds, body types, sizes, and temperaments) work on developing foundation skills for European style courses.  After 4 months, it became apparent to me that very few breeds are built for or have the natural mind set to flourish on these types of courses, including my ATs.  And while my youngster Lil was very successful at USDAA, it was due to training since puppyhood and not any natural inclination.   

After attending NADAC trials 2 weekends in a row, and then watching videos of our runs, I believe my ATs are built (mind and body) for NADAC style courses, as are most dogs (breeds and mixed-breeds).  I also think NADAC style courses are naturally motivating to my dogs so I don't have to think about how to make my handling more dynamic to create excitement as I have had to do at times, like when an opener had dogs running 1.66 times around the same pinwheel (5 jumps) in the midst of multiple discriminations.  :o

I suspect there are a lot more people (like me) who are competing in other venues, who would be interested in increasing their dogs "speed and motivation" and YPS.  And I think if these teams had opportunities to balance their training by running some wide-open, NADAC style courses in practice and at occasional trials, it would translate to faster YPS in any venue.  My thinking is that once people see the value in training fast running on straight aways, they just might want to add NADAC trials to the mix of venues they compete in.

Of course, instructors would need to know how to teach a super fun "speed and motivation" workshop or class!

Dev Sperber, Jake and Lil
Title: Re: Ways to promote NADAC agility
Post by: DebbieRodden on June 22, 2012, 07:49:23 AM
For me, I think the economy has a lot to do with it.  When I started traveling to trials in 2002, I would go all over, KS, WI, IL for a trial and not think anything of it, and did this for years.  By 2008, things changed, the economy was bad and other venues were getting popular in this area (MN/Midwest).  I noticed a decrease in NADAC trials in this area at that time (some clubs closed and other didn't hold as many NADAC trials) and started showing more heavily in other venues (CPE and ASCA).  I don't show USDAA because of the jump heights and AKC does not allow us to play.

In 2009 stopped traveling so far to trials and stayed close to home MN/WI and occasionally IA.  Right now I'm primarily doing just MN/WI trials because of lack of available funding on my part and working a second job on the weekends.  I would love to travel to Lisa's ITZ trials, but can't afford to right now and really miss the traveling part of going to trials, I'm social and enjoy that aspect of it.

I am fortunate for all my past and current instructors have always promoted NADAC and it was the venue I started with, so I love it.  I don't always love some of the changes with it, but accept them and try to learn new things.  When I can only afford one trial and have to choose between the two I trial the most heavily in (NADAC/CPE), I enter depending on what titles/legs I need at that current moment in time.  Right now I am still traveling to WI to trial in NADAC and hopefully by next year I can travel further.

I have seen some people start with NADAC, earn a NATCH and not return, I'm not sure why.  Others I see start in other venues and are afraid of trying NADAC because they hear it's all about speed and distance and they are afraid their dog can't make time.  I tell them if my deaf dog can qualify and come in under time, their dog surely can, and I tell them how much fun the atmosphere is as well.  Some people are afraid to try new things and when they hear about hoops and barrels, they shy away from it.  I don't know anything about barrels and have never seen one, but I'd like to try it sometime and see what my dog can do.  I have to admit, I don't like a lot of change, but am willing to try new things at least once to see how it's done and if my dog likes it.  I entered a Weavers class just because it was part of a package price for a day and didn't expect anything, BUT she qualified....I really need to start trusting my dog.   :D

I'm not sure how to get more people to attend since there are more venues in agility than there were 10 years ago.  Lora's idea is a good one and I try to spread the word to new people as much as possible.  Maybe once the economy turns around a bit, we will see more people playing NADAC.

Deb and Savannah
Title: Re: Ways to promote NADAC agility
Post by: bill fehn on June 24, 2012, 01:44:44 PM
Gina,

You know what happened in this area better than I do. My granddaughter started at A-1. They held NADAC trials, so we started with NADAC. If she would have started training somewhere else we might have started with a different venue. A-1 closed, so NADAC lost both their trials and the students they feed into NADAC. From there she went to C & E. At the New Year's NADAC trial in 2008, there were 23 teams entered with connections to C & E. That is a potential of 276 runs. Not all 23 teams entered all the runs both days, but they still accounted for a lot of runs. Several were at their first trial. C&E closed and most of the 23 people who were at that 2008 trial have either quit or are competing in a different venue. I know less than 5 who still do NADAC. It is another closed training center that won't be feeding any new teams to NADAC.

I have a some newbies who come to my place to practice and on my recommendation, the first two who have entered trials have entered NADAC trials.

If those training centers are not replaced with others that promote NADAC, I don't see the numbers increasing.

Bill Fehn
MN
Title: Re: Ways to promote NADAC agility
Post by: Sharon Nelson on June 24, 2012, 10:14:53 PM
How is this for an idea?  Instructors offer local workshops (or 6 week classes) on "Speed and Motivation" and not make any reference to NADAC.    I have seen a lot of dogs (small dogs in particular) who never really open up their strides and run at other venues like AKC and USDAA, and it is especially noticeable on widely-spaced, straight jumps. 

Earlier this year, I realized my 2 Australian Terriers did not know how to run full-out AND jump well on straight aways because I never really trained it (I believe many small dogs have the same hole in their training and really struggle with jumping as a result). Prior to my recent shift to NADAC, I had been mostly competing in USDAA and some local AKC.  But over the past 4 months I've been participating in Silvia Trkman's on-line Agility Foundations class and through that process, both of my dogs learned how to run fast AND do agility at the same time, including running fast and jumping over widely-spaced straight jumps.  :)  Their YPS have definitely increased along with the level of fun we all have!   

Who would think doing a class with Silvia Trkman would lead me to NADAC, but it did!  The reason is because I had an opportunity to watch a bunch of dogs (a wide range of breeds, body types, sizes, and temperaments) work on developing foundation skills for European style courses.  After 4 months, it became apparent to me that very few breeds are built for or have the natural mind set to flourish on these types of courses, including my ATs.  And while my youngster Lil was very successful at USDAA, it was due to training since puppyhood and not any natural inclination.   

After attending NADAC trials 2 weekends in a row, and then watching videos of our runs, I believe my ATs are built (mind and body) for NADAC style courses, as are most dogs (breeds and mixed-breeds).  I also think NADAC style courses are naturally motivating to my dogs so I don't have to think about how to make my handling more dynamic to create excitement as I have had to do at times, like when an opener had dogs running 1.66 times around the same pinwheel (5 jumps) in the midst of multiple discriminations.  :o

I suspect there are a lot more people (like me) who are competing in other venues, who would be interested in increasing their dogs "speed and motivation" and YPS.  And I think if these teams had opportunities to balance their training by running some wide-open, NADAC style courses in practice and at occasional trials, it would translate to faster YPS in any venue.  My thinking is that once people see the value in training fast running on straight aways, they just might want to add NADAC trials to the mix of venues they compete in.

Of course, instructors would need to know how to teach a super fun "speed and motivation" workshop or class!

Dev Sperber, Jake and Lil

Great input!

Awesome to see "solutions" offered, and not just problems.

Sharon
Title: Re: Ways to promote NADAC agility
Post by: dogrsqr on June 25, 2012, 10:25:51 AM
Those are great suggestions Dev.  Unfortunately we don't have many instructors in our area who actually run NADAC. 

We have one training school owner, Annelise Allan, who does occasionally have special workshops like these.  She has also brought us some EGC trials. .... and as long as I'm bringing up EGC let me say that I initially thought I would hate this concept, but now see it as a training tool and have even had FUN running it.  I still don't like EGC Hoopers (I don't like the lattice gate ring) and I'm not sure about Barrel racing yet, but I will continue to run EGC because I think it will help the speedy youngster and I get our act together. 

After thinking about this over the weekend I've thought of this whole situation from a different perspective.  There are many NADAC competitors out there who only run NADAC.  If we never cross over into other venues why would we expect anyone else to come and try NADAC? 

I did decide with my young dog to go back and do a little USDAA.  I've also run at a couple of ASCA trials (FEO since I don't want to jump her at 20").  At ASCA I can still train in the ring, and work on those elusive start line stays so an occasional trial at FEO is still worth it.  So far I don't think we've impressed too many people other than our one USDAA Novice Jumpers run where I basically layered 3/4 of the course.  Hopefully as we become a better team, and I'm still holding out hope for myself, we can go to other venues and illustrate how distance can be useful in any venue.  It is an alternative to getting turns with a fast dog without making them compromise their speed.

I think if some NADAC folks would be willing to occasionally enter some other venue and show some of the NADAC concepts to people who might not otherwise see them in action it may also be a way to generate interest in NADAC.

Gina Pizzo
Title: Re: Ways to promote NADAC agility
Post by: Amy McGovern on June 25, 2012, 11:32:06 AM
It is a good idea but the other venues are so different.  We primarily run NADAC as it is what I love but we also run teacup (TDAA) and it is so different that I can't really highlight how something we are doing well is because of NADAC.  I do say loud and clear how much we love NADAC though.  My older dog really isn't a fan of the 6-10' obstacle spacing in TDAA.  She wants NADAC spacing as she is a speed demon!  But I don't know that I've convinced anyone who hasn't already been to a NADAC show before.  Do you have specific ideas on how to do that?
Title: Ways to promote NADAC agility
Post by: Kyk9s on June 25, 2012, 12:34:59 PM
RuFF just started hosting Nadac trials in 2010 and have been very fortunate to have had increasing numbers at each event.

Our area is predominantly AKC so we first never try to schedule an event to close to the local AKC club's events.

We have tried to work hand in hand with local trainers in the area by suggesting they leave fliers or gift certificates for our raffles. We also try to make trainers understand that having more agility trials in the area no matter what the venue is a win win for everyone.

We promote our trials as being stress free and lots of fun. We use face book to promote our trials and attend local AKC events to promote also.

Making entering easy we have found also helps. More than 1/2 our entries are made thru Click 2 run and PayPal.

Day of shows have really helped to get a lot of the AKC people to try Nadac.

Since 2010 we have gone from averaging 500 entries a show to 700 so far in 2012. We just finished our last trial with over 800 runs and our novice classes are huge.

After conversing with a lot of our exhibitors we have found that they attend our events because they are fun. We go out of our way to make everyone welcome and always try to introduce ourselves to newbies to Nadac and make sure they know they can come to any RuFF member with any concerns or questions.

We are also constantly putting RuFF's name out there by selling RuFF shirts and hats because lots of people still don't know about Nadac and when people see RuFFies wearing these at other events they ask questions.

In the end we now have 2 trainers offering classes on distance skills for Nadac and are now promoting our events.

Don't know if any of this helps maybe we've just been lucky but I do know we have lots of fun :)
Robin Wilcher
RuFF agility
Title: Re: Ways to promote NADAC agility
Post by: tag team on June 26, 2012, 03:06:08 AM
RE: Amy's post and question:  "It is a good idea but the other venues are so different.....   But I don't know that I've convinced anyone who hasn't already been to a NADAC show before.  Do you have specific ideas on how to do that?"

I actually think TDAA and NADAC are complimentary because the obstacle specs and spacing are so different, I assume they feel like different games to most dogs.

What I would point out to TDAA competitors you know who are into training, is how great NADAC is for maximizing speed/fun, teaching dogs how to shift back and forth from handler to obstacle focus, and for training discriminations.  Of course, TDAA courses are a lot harder to do with a fast dog... but A LOT more fun too!  Granted not everyone is interested in having a super fast, wild ride with their dogs in TDAA or elsewhere, but you can spot the handlers who are... and those are the people most likely to enjoy the wild ride of NADAC too.

I think you might also be able to encourage some TDAA competitors with pokey dogs to try a little NADAC to see if the wide-open spacing encourages more speed/fun and enthusiasm from their dogs.

Dev Sperber
Title: Re: Ways to promote NADAC agility
Post by: Sharon Nelson on June 26, 2012, 06:33:32 AM
RuFF just started hosting Nadac trials in 2010 and have been very fortunate to have had increasing numbers at each event.

Our area is predominantly AKC so we first never try to schedule an event to close to the local AKC club's events.

We have tried to work hand in hand with local trainers in the area by suggesting they leave fliers or gift certificates for our raffles. We also try to make trainers understand that having more agility trials in the area no matter what the venue is a win win for everyone.

We promote our trials as being stress free and lots of fun. We use face book to promote our trials and attend local AKC events to promote also.

Making entering easy we have found also helps. More than 1/2 our entries are made thru Click 2 run and PayPal.

Day of shows have really helped to get a lot of the AKC people to try Nadac.

Since 2010 we have gone from averaging 500 entries a show to 700 so far in 2012. We just finished our last trial with over 800 runs and our novice classes are huge.

After conversing with a lot of our exhibitors we have found that they attend our events because they are fun. We go out of our way to make everyone welcome and always try to introduce ourselves to newbies to Nadac and make sure they know they can come to any RuFF member with any concerns or questions.

We are also constantly putting RuFF's name out there by selling RuFF shirts and hats because lots of people still don't know about Nadac and when people see RuFFies wearing these at other events they ask questions.

In the end we now have 2 trainers offering classes on distance skills for Nadac and are now promoting our events.

Don't know if any of this helps maybe we've just been lucky but I do know we have lots of fun :)
Robin Wilcher
RuFF agility

RuFF has been an ideal example of showing that FUN works!!  The enthusiasm for an area where there was "no" NADAC only a few years ago to now having bigger and bigger trials and people post and email about how much fun the trials were and that they will be back!  The KY/TN area has gone from nothing to 600-800 run trials in a very short time and that is due to what exhibitors are experiencing at the trials.... they go back to their friends and they spread the word.  The Ruff members spread the fun to everyone.

Sharon
Title: Re: Ways to promote NADAC agility
Post by: TheQuestKnight on June 26, 2012, 12:08:04 PM
Perhaps "westerners" are accustomed to driving 3-4 or more hours to trial while we pampered mid-westerners and easterners are pathetically spoiled by having so much agility close to us on any given weekend.

However, the "I'll do yours if you'll do mine" approach sounds a lot like a teenager's libido speaking . . . and it didn't work then and I don't see it working now . . .

Where I am in northeast Ohio, AKC dominates, CPE is second, USDAA third, TDAA fourth, UKC is considered "Totally Weird" by the first four and NADAC is existent within 3 hours of us.

I don't have any dogs that are TDAA eligible, so I've not experienced TDAA first hand.  I have participated in AKC, CPE, USDAA and UKC events at one time or another.  IMHO, the course designs and course times facilitate the handling style that all instructors in our area teach.  They are handling styles that I would call "nagging" the dogs around the course. 

While NADAC sytle handling transitions very well into ALL of the above venues, for folks comfortable with their handling and their success in those venues is basically an anethema to introducing NADAC and/or NADAC style handling.

Many folks have the financial where-with-all to compete in several venues . . . many dogs are comfortable in several venues . . . after my 20+ years in agility, I and mine only do NADAC and harbor no public acrimony to the other venues . . .

For as much trialing as we do, we are willing to travel the 4-5+ hours that we need to travel to trial in NADAC . . .

Everyone has their own priorities . . . and depending on where one is located, they may be competing with 1, 2, 3 or more other venues for the local pool of exhibitor $$$.

If one needs to work around 1 other venue's events, that's pretty easy to do . . . add a second venue . . . and it becomes A LOT tougher . . . add a third, relatively popular venue, it becomes darn near impossible . . . there are only so many $$$ of disposable income in the potential exhibitor pool.

How do you change it?  To quote Corporal Klinger from M*A*S*H, "If I had that answer, I'd run for god." . . .

From my perspective, I don't like ANY jump heights higher than 16" for my BCs when they are young . . . or 12" when I'll be a VH in a few months.  I don't see the purpose in spread jumps or tires at bad angles or chutes that can tangle in a breeze . . . or an inconsistent teeter-totter . . . or slats . . . but that's ONLY for me and mine.

I enjoy the fact that NADAC's challenges predominantly challenge the teamwork between me and my dogs without stressing them physically . . . and I don't enjoy when challenges challenge my dog physically . . . we're not professional athletes by any means, so I appreciate that NADAC allows us to play safely.

I think that everyone's situation is unique . . . one needs to consider their area . . . the competion for exhibitor $$$ . . . the overall economy of the region . . . and go from there . . .

NADAC isn't going to "make it" in certain markets, given current economic conditions . . . that's a fact . . .

Understanding how to promote NADAC must, IMHO, also include the knowledge of when to NOT attempt to "force" NADAC upon a non-receptive "audience" because it would only serve to further cement the opinions of those folks that NADAC is what they DON'T want to do.

From a marketing standpoint, when folks are HAPPY with their choices in an area, it's unwise to try to create unhappy people out of happy ones . . . and then offering them an alternative.

One needs to wait for the opportunity to present itself . . . and it can NOT be "forced" . . . one just needs to be AWARE and act when the time is right . . .

I have experience helping an "upstart" agility venue get it's "foot in the door" when folks were frustrated with their available options . . . and that frustration is cyclical . . .

So, keep your ears open . . . and your mouth shut . . . until it's time "to move" . . . and then do it with authority, conviction and boldness . . .

Just my couple of coppers . . .

Al in Ohio
Title: Re: Ways to promote NADAC agility
Post by: Cynthia Ernat on June 26, 2012, 05:40:50 PM
My thought on the matter is that those of us who do participate in other venues must demonstrate that the handling skills that we learn and use as a NADAC participant do not impair ones ability to do other venues.  There does seem to be a mindset that if you train your dog to do distance then your dog cannot do close or be handled.

I remember one AKC trial that I attend where I injured a muscle and could not really run with my dogs as I would have normally done when working as a team with my dogs on an AKC course.  My first run was an Excellent Jumpers course with Charm jumping 20" on a course that no dog prior to us had qualified on (no 24" dog and no 20" dogs).  Charm ran the course well with taking direction for her impaired handler.  We then later that day also ran the Excellent Standard course and once again she qualified.  The participants were amazed and all wanted to know where I trained.  I knew the judge pretty well since we had been in classes together numerous times.  She had told me at the judges dinner that evening the discussion centered around my dog's ability to work at a distance and work as a team member.  The great fun was I came back the next day and double Q'd with Hope.  Charm ran well; she just knocked a double in one run and a triple in the other due to my lack of forward motion.  However, this instance as many others help promote and encourage people to take notice of those of us who work on speed, drawing the path instead of handling obstacle to obstacle, and creating team work.

In the mini seminars that I've done, the individuals who do come are interested in building their team work and want to learn distance.  They are amazed by end of the day some of the distance and team work they can build with their dogs.  I hope to provide them insight to help them in whatever venue they so choose to do.

As always us as competitors and instructors are NADAC's best way to promote NADAC.  I can only hope that if people see that one can be successful and that there is more to NADAC than just a dog working at a distance and running fast.

Cynthia Ernat
Chicago, IL
Charm, Hope, Ozzie, Abbi, Shazta, Kodi, Konfetti, Roux and Spice
Title: Re: Ways to promote NADAC agility
Post by: AgilityJeff on June 26, 2012, 05:43:42 PM
3 words sum it up.  Grow your own.

As Chris very astutely pointed out, areas where there are instructors promoting the venue, extolling the virtues of the venue, and teaching students right from the start about why this venue does what it does and what is unique / special about the venue are areas where the trials flourish.  I have had the opportunity to watch the run counts and local enthusiasm grow for NADAC in several 'pockets' of the country because a few of our venue's evangelists got out there and started spreading the word.  It doesn't always grow exponentially, but where NADAC is strong, it's because there are instructors bringing their students up to understand and appreciate all NADAC has to offer.

If you can't grow a following, you won't have a following because someone else is bringing those students up to think differently.  Yes, you can pick up a few event participants for a variety of reasons and you can get some people to travel a distance to come to your trials from time to time, but it's the students that make the trials fill on a consistent basis.

My $.02, from a guy who can't bring 'em up nearly fast enough!

Jeff Riedl
K9 Corps Agility
Greenville, WI
Title: Re: Ways to promote NADAC agility
Post by: dogrsqr on June 27, 2012, 03:38:44 PM
Speaking as a member of a club that doesn't offer agility classes, only offers trials .... it's not really an option to "grow our own" thru instruction.  Our club also doesn't have a facility and our club members all have day jobs.  Some of us teach an evening class or two at one or another club that we belong to, but since they are not NADAC clubs it isn't wise to get too preachy about what venues to trial in.  We do like Cynthia, and teach all the skills necessary to play in any venue, distance included. 

I think it's also tough here in Minnesota because we have UKI, AKC, USDAA, ASCA, CPE and UKC agility in addition to NADAC.  We have at least one agility trial available within a short drive almost every weekend.

I also think that there are a whole lot of instructors in our area either ignoring NADAC or worse speaking negatively about it.  I agree with Cynthia that if we can show the uniformed that NADAC skills work for other venues that might draw some interest.

Gina Pizzo
Title: Re: Ways to promote NADAC agility
Post by: Sheila & the Shelties on June 27, 2012, 05:57:44 PM
As always us as competitors and instructors are NADAC's best way to promote NADAC.  I can only hope that if people see that one can be successful and that there is more to NADAC than just a dog working at a distance and running fast.

Cynthia Ernat

Amen!
Title: Re: Ways to promote NADAC agility
Post by: BetsieCorwin on June 27, 2012, 10:34:44 PM
This idea isn't exactly promoting NADAC but might help in a very round-a-bout way.  A friend and I have taken classes with our new dogs at a facility that teaches all venues and very supportive of NADAC.  The distance we both travel to the classes is 1 1/4 hours each way for me, and 2 hours each way for my friend. There is an instructor much closer and available at more convenient hours for us both, but she only competes in AKC.  However, the good news is the instructor is very accommodating and constantly asks us "How is it done in NADAC?"  Now she suggested that we provide some sample courses for her so she can set up practice sessions for us both that will be more like what we will face at NADAC trials.  I love that she is open to doing this for us.  Perhaps one of these days we'll encourage her to try NADAC again.  This would be working the "promoting NADAC" in reverse, but what the heck?  It's a win win for everyone.  She gets a couple more students and we get individual attention without traveling such a long distance.

Betsie Corwin
Oakdale, CA
Title: Re: Ways to promote NADAC agility
Post by: Sharon Nelson on June 28, 2012, 10:39:17 AM
As always us as competitors and instructors are NADAC's best way to promote NADAC.  I can only hope that if people see that one can be successful and that there is more to NADAC than just a dog working at a distance and running fast.

Cynthia Ernat
Chicago, IL
Charm, Hope, Ozzie, Abbi, Shazta, Kodi, Konfetti, Roux and Spice

What a great statement!!  And so true.  NADAC is not all about distance and speed.  Yes, we see a lot of great speed and distance dogs in NADAC where they can shine on the NADAC courses, but we also see many more efficient, closer working teams that excel at NADAC!  Efficiency can boost those times just as much or more than a fast, inefficient dog!  And distance does not have to be at 30+ feet to be absolutely gorgeous!  I see many, many beautiful "distance" dogs that are never more than 15' from their handlers and they are displayed amazing distance skills and beautiful teamwork!

Sharon
Title: Re: Ways to promote NADAC agility
Post by: bill fehn on June 28, 2012, 11:35:46 AM
This is a reply to Cynthia Ernat s post. I have not yet figured out how to add a quote to my replies.

Cynthia,
We have only met once, and we talked just a little. It was at the NADAC trial in La Crosse, Wisconsin on December 12, 2009. I had Skeeter for a year and a half at that time. At that trial, we earned titles in five classes NQing only on a self-defined bonus line attempt on the second Regular run.  But watching your runs did more to validate what Id been attempting to do, than the titles we received that day.

For me distance is a necessity not an option. Compared to others, I was marching to the beat of a different drummer. Not only did I not have anyone to show me the way, I also faced criticism, including one instructor telling me that I needed to have someone else run my dog. I had never before seen anyone handle their dogs like I was attempting, not even in NADAC. Your handling style matched mine. You demonstrated that I was doing the right thing for us and that success was possible.

What you said about the comments you received in other venues matches my experience. Many people are totally amazed at our distances work even when we dont qualify. I often hear others say that they wish they could do that. For me being able to work at a distance does not impair, but often makes the technically difficult sequences in other venues possible because it gives me time to get into position to handle them or to be able to steer from the backseat as Skeeter does the last sequence of obstacles at full speed. Sometimes someone will ask if I learned my handling in NADAC. Just maybe it will encourage others to try NADAC.

Bill Fehn
MN