NADAC Forum

General => General Discussion => Topic started by: Sharon Nelson on January 12, 2016, 02:26:37 PM

Title: Commonly asked questions about Numbered Hoopers and X-Hoopers
Post by: Sharon Nelson on January 12, 2016, 02:26:37 PM

Numbered Hoopers will be around for a long time.  Strategic Hoopers is gone. 
 

XHoopers counts towards an All Around NATCH, Numbered Hoopers does not

 

Numbered Hoopers counts towards Novice All Around, Open All Around, Elite All Around, does not count towards any NATCH

 

XHoopers points could transfer to Numbered Hoopers (Hoopers), but Numbered Hoopers points cannot transfer towards X-Hoopers.

 

HP is Hoopers is the Numbered Hoopers acronym

 

XHP is X-Hoopers is the X-Hoopers acronym

Since X-Hoopers and Barrelers are now "NADAC" class and not a part of an EGC program (EGC is gone), we will modify the scoring for those two classes to match the scoring used in other NADAC classes such as Tunnelers, Touch N Go, Weavers, Hoopers, etc.  In other words, instead of receiving faults for path errors, the faults will be the normal 5, 10, 20 faults as in other classes.  An SCT will be set comparable to Numbered Hoopers for Barrelers and X-Hoopers.  This will be much more helpful for competitors to understand the scoring for those classes.  The software vendors have indicated that updated scoring could be available in a couple months if exhibitors continue to indicate that they would like to see all of the scoring the same.



Title: Re: Commonly asked questions about Numbered Hoopers and X-Hoopers
Post by: Lisa Schmit In The Zone Agility on January 12, 2016, 02:33:25 PM
"Since X-Hoopers and Barrelers are now "NADAC" class and not a part of an EGC program (EGC is gone), we will modify the scoring for those two classes to match the scoring used in other NADAC classes such as Tunnelers, Touch N Go, Weavers, Hoopers, etc.  In other words, instead of receiving faults for path errors, the faults will be the normal 5, 10, 20 faults as in other classes.  An SCT will be set comparable to Numbered Hoopers for Barrelers and X-Hoopers.  This will be much more helpful for competitors to understand the scoring for those classes.  The software vendors have indicated that updated scoring could be available in a couple months if exhibitors continue to indicate that they would like to see all of the scoring the same."

So what will be  faulted?  How will it be scored?  Will we be able to get 5, 10 15 points still?

ITZ has added XHp and Barrels to list of classes.    I know people will ask me tons of questions :)

it will be nice when the scoring is all together on the program. As you know, sometimes i forget to send you the Xhp and barrels scores :(  YIKES !!

Thanks !!
lisa
Title: Re: Commonly asked questions about Numbered Hoopers and X-Hoopers
Post by: Sharon Nelson on January 12, 2016, 03:03:02 PM
"Since X-Hoopers and Barrelers are now "NADAC" class and not a part of an EGC program (EGC is gone), we will modify the scoring for those two classes to match the scoring used in other NADAC classes such as Tunnelers, Touch N Go, Weavers, Hoopers, etc.  In other words, instead of receiving faults for path errors, the faults will be the normal 5, 10, 20 faults as in other classes.  An SCT will be set comparable to Numbered Hoopers for Barrelers and X-Hoopers.  This will be much more helpful for competitors to understand the scoring for those classes.  The software vendors have indicated that updated scoring could be available in a couple months if exhibitors continue to indicate that they would like to see all of the scoring the same."

So what will be  faulted?  How will it be scored?  Will we be able to get 5, 10 15 points still?

ITZ has added XHp and Barrels to list of classes.    I know people will ask me tons of questions :)

it will be nice when the scoring is all together on the program. As you know, sometimes i forget to send you the Xhp and barrels scores :(  YIKES !!

Thanks !!
lisa

When it is ready it will be the same as other classes.  10 faults for off course, 20 faults for missing an obstacle, etc.

Sharon
Title: Re: Commonly asked questions about Numbered Hoopers and X-Hoopers
Post by: Rebecca Kriz on January 12, 2016, 03:08:31 PM
Will run values still be based on DRI for for XHP and Barrelers?  Or are they going to be 10 point Qs and must be run clean?
Title: Re: Commonly asked questions about Numbered Hoopers and X-Hoopers
Post by: Sharon Nelson on January 12, 2016, 03:26:36 PM
Will run values still be based on DRI for for XHP and Barrelers?  Or are they going to be 10 point Qs and must be run clean?

It will be the same as the other NADAC classes.  A 10 point Q, just like Tunnelers, Weavers, Hoopers, Jumpers, Chances, etc.

Sharon
Title: Re: Commonly asked questions about Numbered Hoopers and X-Hoopers
Post by: Rebecca Kriz on January 12, 2016, 03:33:10 PM
Will run values still be based on DRI for for XHP and Barrelers?  Or are they going to be 10 point Qs and must be run clean?

It will be the same as the other NADAC classes.  A 10 point Q, just like Tunnelers, Weavers, Hoopers, Jumpers, Chances, etc.

Sharon

Well, I'm sure going to miss aiming for those 15 point runs.  Of course we'll still try our best, but those extra 5 points were always exciting to earn.  I guess another question is if there will be DRIs at all.  Numbered Hoopers doesn't have a DRI.  I believe there was previously a platinum award that included EGC, but not sure about now.
Title: Re: Commonly asked questions about Numbered Hoopers and X-Hoopers
Post by: Lisa Schmit In The Zone Agility on January 12, 2016, 04:05:02 PM
So until the software is updated...which could be months..  barrelers and Xhoopers will be scored as is for now... faults for path, spins etc.  And we can get 5, 10 15 point Qs until then.  Is this correct?

 
Title: Re: Commonly asked questions about Numbered Hoopers and X-Hoopers
Post by: Leanne on January 12, 2016, 04:43:25 PM
Oh 😔.  I will miss the scoring for XHP and BR.

There was lots of fun internal incentive for me to try to improve my time or be more efficient and timely with my cues and path work to improve my points from round 1 to round 2. 

Title: Re: Commonly asked questions about Numbered Hoopers and X-Hoopers
Post by: Sharon Nelson on January 13, 2016, 12:33:39 AM
So until the software is updated...which could be months..  barrelers and Xhoopers will be scored as is for now... faults for path, spins etc.  And we can get 5, 10 15 point Qs until then.  Is this correct?

Correct!

Sharon
Title: Re: Commonly asked questions about Numbered Hoopers and X-Hoopers
Post by: Sharon Nelson on January 13, 2016, 12:34:55 AM
Oh 😔.  I will miss the scoring for XHP and BR.

There was lots of fun internal incentive for me to try to improve my time or be more efficient and timely with my cues and path work to improve my points from round 1 to round 2.

I totally understand!  For those experienced in XHP and BR, they want the old scoring.  But the scoring differences are stopping a lot of people from entering and stopping clubs from offering the classes.

Sharon
Title: Re: Commonly asked questions about Numbered Hoopers and X-Hoopers
Post by: dogrsqr on January 13, 2016, 07:12:36 AM
So there is no judging of path around a barrel at any level? 

Gina
Title: Re: Commonly asked questions about Numbered Hoopers and X-Hoopers
Post by: Sharon Nelson on January 13, 2016, 10:55:48 AM
So there is no judging of path around a barrel at any level? 

Gina

At Open and Elite the path would be determined by whether or not they are close enough to the barrel to go through the hoops next to the barrel.

Sharon
Title: Re: Commonly asked questions about Numbered Hoopers and X-Hoopers
Post by: Maureen deHaan on January 13, 2016, 01:42:23 PM
I will also miss the EGC style scoring bc then most teams can earn some positive reinforcement even if they are a little slower :)   I also like aiming for those 15 point Qs :)
Title: Re: Commonly asked questions about Numbered Hoopers and X-Hoopers
Post by: Jean Sather (McCreight) on January 13, 2016, 03:14:16 PM

At Open and Elite the path would be determined by whether or not they are close enough to the barrel to go through the hoops next to the barrel.

Sharon

So if they fail to go through the hoop next to the barrel, would that be an NQ under the new scoring at Open or Elite levels? (i.e. a "missed obstacle"?)
Title: Re: Commonly asked questions about Numbered Hoopers and X-Hoopers
Post by: Rebecca Kriz on January 13, 2016, 04:02:15 PM

At Open and Elite the path would be determined by whether or not they are close enough to the barrel to go through the hoops next to the barrel.

Sharon

So if they fail to go through the hoop next to the barrel, would that be an NQ under the new scoring at Open or Elite levels? (i.e. a "missed obstacle"?)

I was wondering about this too.  I figured the hoops would be gone with the new scoring, since the path isn't judged in any other class.
Title: Re: Commonly asked questions about Numbered Hoopers and X-Hoopers
Post by: Sharon Nelson on January 14, 2016, 09:43:07 AM

At Open and Elite the path would be determined by whether or not they are close enough to the barrel to go through the hoops next to the barrel.

Sharon

So if they fail to go through the hoop next to the barrel, would that be an NQ under the new scoring at Open or Elite levels? (i.e. a "missed obstacle"?)

I was wondering about this too.  I figured the hoops would be gone with the new scoring, since the path isn't judged in any other class.

The hoops gauge the actual "performance" of the barrel.  Without them the advanced dogs could take really wide turns which is not a correct performance of the obstacle, the barrel.  Even with wide turns the dogs will still make time and yet they failed to correctly perform the obstacle.  It would be like removing the color on the contact and just guessing on whether they correctly performed the obstacle of not by a visual guess.

Sharon
Title: Re: Commonly asked questions about Numbered Hoopers and X-Hoopers
Post by: Marcy Matties on January 14, 2016, 10:16:27 AM

At Open and Elite the path would be determined by whether or not they are close enough to the barrel to go through the hoops next to the barrel.

Sharon

So if they fail to go through the hoop next to the barrel, would that be an NQ under the new scoring at Open or Elite levels? (i.e. a "missed obstacle"?)

I was wondering about this too.  I figured the hoops would be gone with the new scoring, since the path isn't judged in any other class.

The hoops gauge the actual "performance" of the barrel.  Without them the advanced dogs could take really wide turns which is not a correct performance of the obstacle, the barrel.  Even with wide turns the dogs will still make time and yet they failed to correctly perform the obstacle.  It would be like removing the color on the contact and just guessing on whether they correctly performed the obstacle of not by a visual guess.

Sharon

So if they don't go through one of the hoops, is it a 10 pt. fault or a 20 pt. fault?
Title: Re: Commonly asked questions about Numbered Hoopers and X-Hoopers
Post by: Sharon Nelson on January 14, 2016, 10:22:17 AM

So if they don't go through one of the hoops, is it a 10 pt. fault or a 20 pt. fault?

5 faults, same as before.

Sharon
Title: Re: Commonly asked questions about Numbered Hoopers and X-Hoopers
Post by: Rebecca Kriz on January 14, 2016, 03:23:30 PM

At Open and Elite the path would be determined by whether or not they are close enough to the barrel to go through the hoops next to the barrel.

Sharon

So if they fail to go through the hoop next to the barrel, would that be an NQ under the new scoring at Open or Elite levels? (i.e. a "missed obstacle"?)

I was wondering about this too.  I figured the hoops would be gone with the new scoring, since the path isn't judged in any other class.

The hoops gauge the actual "performance" of the barrel.  Without them the advanced dogs could take really wide turns which is not a correct performance of the obstacle, the barrel.  Even with wide turns the dogs will still make time and yet they failed to correctly perform the obstacle.  It would be like removing the color on the contact and just guessing on whether they correctly performed the obstacle of not by a visual guess.

Sharon
Haha, after I asked, I thought about the different obstacles and made the contact analogy.  So, I guess the question is when are we going to start seeing hoops on barrels in the other classes?  ;)
Title: Re: Commonly asked questions about Numbered Hoopers and X-Hoopers
Post by: Sharon Nelson on January 14, 2016, 04:44:16 PM
Haha, after I asked, I thought about the different obstacles and made the contact analogy.  So, I guess the question is when are we going to start seeing hoops on barrels in the other classes?  ;)

Evidently you haven't run across a set yet, as they have been there on many sets in December and January in Regular so far.

Sharon
Title: Re: Commonly asked questions about Numbered Hoopers and X-Hoopers
Post by: Rebecca Kriz on January 14, 2016, 04:54:07 PM
Haha, after I asked, I thought about the different obstacles and made the contact analogy.  So, I guess the question is when are we going to start seeing hoops on barrels in the other classes?  ;)

Evidently you haven't run across a set yet, as they have been there on many sets in December and January in Regular so far.

Sharon

Nope, I only entered one trial in December.  I've got several trials coming up, so I'll probably see it soon.
Title: Re: Commonly asked questions about Numbered Hoopers and X-Hoopers
Post by: Diane Whitney on January 14, 2016, 05:18:20 PM
So with the simplified scoring, will we now be able to do X-Hoopers and Barrelers as VT runs?
Title: Re: Commonly asked questions about Numbered Hoopers and X-Hoopers
Post by: Leanne on January 14, 2016, 05:43:05 PM

So if they don't go through one of the hoops, is it a 10 pt. fault or a 20 pt. fault?

5 faults, same as before.

Sharon


Any consideration for 5 pt Q's in Barrelers??? 
Title: Commonly asked questions about Numbered Hoopers and X-Hoopers
Post by: Wild Terriers on January 14, 2016, 08:57:28 PM
Oh, I am sooooooo sad the EGC scoring is going away - I love, love, love the current scoring!  So, when it changes, does that mean a missed obstacle can be "fixed" and still be a Q?  And, if the YPS will be similar to HP - does that now mean that Skilled and Veterans will be part of XHP and Barrelers?  Thanks!!

Karen
Title: Re: Commonly asked questions about Numbered Hoopers and X-Hoopers
Post by: Karen Echternacht on January 16, 2016, 02:54:09 PM
All in favor of removing the contact zone... (Lol - couldn't help myself)
Title: Re: Commonly asked questions about Numbered Hoopers and X-Hoopers
Post by: Lisa Schmit In The Zone Agility on January 18, 2016, 01:52:17 PM
For the new scoring -- if there are 2 hoops on a barrel and the dog misses one of the hoops,  I assume you can send your dog around the barrel to get the hoop again correct?

I am thinking about hoop/barrels like weave poles... if a dog pops out of weave poles, you go back and do the whole thing over again.

Am I correct?

I really am liking hoopers and barrelers. I am glad that we are allowed to offer these classes in addition to the other classes.

Running 4 dogs in Elite is tough.. but Fun !!
Title: Re: Commonly asked questions about Numbered Hoopers and X-Hoopers
Post by: Jean Wilkins on January 18, 2016, 02:34:08 PM
Major bummer on the changing of the scoring for Barrelers and XHoopers.  I have LOVED the way the scoring has been.  It goes with the philosophy of your original intent of what EGC was to be about….run a path, stick to it and if an error made, get back on the path and go go go.  That philosophy has encouraged us to let our dogs run with out fixing mistakes; it has helped to build confidence and teamwork with our dogs.  It behooves you NOT to fix mistakes and to just get your team connection back with your dog.  I think that has help many a dog (and team) grow more and gain positive skills and immediate positive re-enforcement because it didn’t pay to fix an error.  I see that changing now as you go for the Q and not the score.
 
I think that BR and XHP is slowly growing in some areas; we are seeing it here on the east coast on the premiums for lots of new trials/clubs this coming year.  People are finally watching it and see the fun the dogs and people are having and are trying it.  I know that I have offered a couple of “come and try” days for these 2 classes and the attendance was good and growing.  We are actually holding a BR and XHP stand-alone trial and are very excited about it.  Can’t wait to see how much fun the dogs will have after running these classes for 2 days.
 
Please rethink the changing of the scoring, those that have run these classes for a long time love the scoring as it is.  Can you wait another 6 months to a year to see of things improve with the way you run it now?
 
Jean
Kopper, Zephyr & Wit who ALL love these classes.
Title: Re: Commonly asked questions about Numbered Hoopers and X-Hoopers
Post by: Jean Sather (McCreight) on January 18, 2016, 02:46:25 PM
I like the way you think Jean Wilkins, and agree with most of what you wrote.

In our area we continue to promote X-BR and X-HP and have offered them at all but one of our GDAC trials for the past two years.  We encourage entries by charging just $5/run for the "X-classes" (compared to $8-9 for all other NADAC classes) and also offer them at fun matches so competitors have a chance to see the courses and get some tips on how to handle them.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts, Jean.
Title: Re: Commonly asked questions about Numbered Hoopers and X-Hoopers
Post by: Janice_Shavor on January 18, 2016, 04:43:36 PM
I would like a chance at XHP and XBR.  So, I'll get a March chance at a fun-raiser and am trying to get those two added to our April trial.

Not having played these games since 2010, I think it would really help to have the scoring rules plus video examples (if anyone were to volunteer themselves) where there is a voice-over explaining faults.

And I would really like to have that even if/when the rules change.  That way I can go for the GO-GO-GO! and the teamwork.
Title: Re: Commonly asked questions about Numbered Hoopers and X-Hoopers
Post by: Sharon Nelson on January 18, 2016, 05:32:32 PM
Major bummer on the changing of the scoring for Barrelers and XHoopers.  I have LOVED the way the scoring has been.  It goes with the philosophy of your original intent of what EGC was to be about….run a path, stick to it and if an error made, get back on the path and go go go.  That philosophy has encouraged us to let our dogs run with out fixing mistakes; it has helped to build confidence and teamwork with our dogs.  It behooves you NOT to fix mistakes and to just get your team connection back with your dog.  I think that has help many a dog (and team) grow more and gain positive skills and immediate positive re-enforcement because it didn’t pay to fix an error.  I see that changing now as you go for the Q and not the score.
 
I think that BR and XHP is slowly growing in some areas; we are seeing it here on the east coast on the premiums for lots of new trials/clubs this coming year.  People are finally watching it and see the fun the dogs and people are having and are trying it.  I know that I have offered a couple of “come and try” days for these 2 classes and the attendance was good and growing.  We are actually holding a BR and XHP stand-alone trial and are very excited about it.  Can’t wait to see how much fun the dogs will have after running these classes for 2 days.
 
Please rethink the changing of the scoring, those that have run these classes for a long time love the scoring as it is.  Can you wait another 6 months to a year to see of things improve with the way you run it now?
 
Jean
Kopper, Zephyr & Wit who ALL love these classes.

I agree to a point, Jean.  The extreme classes have been available for six years.  Clubs are just now starting to really embrace them and most of that is because it is down to two classes.

There will be an update and I wish to only have "one" update.  With the next update, we are updating the Barrelers and X-Hoopers classes to match Tunnelers, Touch N Go, etc.  We are also heavily discussing adding Skilled/Proficient, Standard/Veteran dog/Veteran handler/disabled handler/junior handler to "all" classes.  Also "maybe" increasing times for Weavers, Jumpers and Touch N Go, maybe. 

We have to decide which are the upcoming improvements for NADAC and it competitors.

If Barrelers and X-Hoopers remains "different" it will be the main reason that new people won't enter the classes.  When there is a different set of rules, it sets them apart.  That was fine when there was an entire "extreme" listing of 4 classes.  Now it is what causes the remaining two classes to be rejected.

I, too, love the existing scoring, but I have to look at the long term picture for NADAC.  If people will enter those classes, more and more of them will really enjoy the challenges and the thrill of a great run without necessarily earning more points.

Sharon
Title: Re: Commonly asked questions about Numbered Hoopers and X-Hoopers
Post by: Sharon Nelson on January 18, 2016, 05:33:44 PM
So with the simplified scoring, will we now be able to do X-Hoopers and Barrelers as VT runs?

Quite possible, I will give some thoughts on that and the possibility of VT Barrelers and X-Hoopers.

Sharon
Title: Re: Commonly asked questions about Numbered Hoopers and X-Hoopers
Post by: Sharon Nelson on January 18, 2016, 05:34:22 PM

So if they don't go through one of the hoops, is it a 10 pt. fault or a 20 pt. fault?

5 faults, same as before.

Sharon


Any consideration for 5 pt Q's in Barrelers???

Nope, only Regular allows for a 5 pt Q.

Sharon
Title: Re: Commonly asked questions about Numbered Hoopers and X-Hoopers
Post by: Sharon Nelson on January 18, 2016, 05:35:04 PM
For the new scoring -- if there are 2 hoops on a barrel and the dog misses one of the hoops,  I assume you can send your dog around the barrel to get the hoop again correct?

I am thinking about hoop/barrels like weave poles... if a dog pops out of weave poles, you go back and do the whole thing over again.

Am I correct?

I really am liking hoopers and barrelers. I am glad that we are allowed to offer these classes in addition to the other classes.

Running 4 dogs in Elite is tough.. but Fun !!

Yes, you can retry the barrel.

Sharon
Title: Re: Commonly asked questions about Numbered Hoopers and X-Hoopers
Post by: Wild Terriers on January 18, 2016, 09:36:52 PM
Lisa - I am soooooooo happy that you are an Extreme Hoopers and Barrelers convert!!!!  It was quite amazing watching you run 4 dogs in Elite on Saturday - you rocked it though.  Chrissy, Jean, Sam and I will have to stop lamenting that we each have 2 dogs in Elite - grin.  But, I suspect if the classes are offered more often, we will all soon get to breathe a little between runs!!  I am sad that the scoring is changing, but if it means that the classes get offered more often, I am ALL for that!!!

Karen
Title: Re: Commonly asked questions about Numbered Hoopers and X-Hoopers
Post by: Vicki Storrs on January 19, 2016, 04:25:37 AM
Major bummer on the changing of the scoring for Barrelers and XHoopers.  I have LOVED the way the scoring has been.  It goes with the philosophy of your original intent of what EGC was to be about….run a path, stick to it and if an error made, get back on the path and go go go.  That philosophy has encouraged us to let our dogs run with out fixing mistakes; it has helped to build confidence and teamwork with our dogs.  It behooves you NOT to fix mistakes and to just get your team connection back with your dog.  I think that has help many a dog (and team) grow more and gain positive skills and immediate positive re-enforcement because it didn’t pay to fix an error.  I see that changing now as you go for the Q and not the score.
 
I think that BR and XHP is slowly growing in some areas; we are seeing it here on the east coast on the premiums for lots of new trials/clubs this coming year.  People are finally watching it and see the fun the dogs and people are having and are trying it.  I know that I have offered a couple of “come and try” days for these 2 classes and the attendance was good and growing.  We are actually holding a BR and XHP stand-alone trial and are very excited about it.  Can’t wait to see how much fun the dogs will have after running these classes for 2 days.
 
Please rethink the changing of the scoring, those that have run these classes for a long time love the scoring as it is.  Can you wait another 6 months to a year to see of things improve with the way you run it now?
 
Jean
Kopper, Zephyr & Wit who ALL love these classes.

I agree to a point, Jean.  The extreme classes have been available for six years.  Clubs are just now starting to really embrace them and most of that is because it is down to two classes.

There will be an update and I wish to only have "one" update.  With the next update, we are updating the Barrelers and X-Hoopers classes to match Tunnelers, Touch N Go, etc.  We are also heavily discussing adding Skilled/Proficient, Standard/Veteran dog/Veteran handler/disabled handler/junior handler to "all" classes.  Also "maybe" increasing times for Weavers, Jumpers and Touch N Go, maybe. 

We have to decide which are the upcoming improvements for NADAC and it competitors.

If Barrelers and X-Hoopers remains "different" it will be the main reason that new people won't enter the classes.  When there is a different set of rules, it sets them apart.  That was fine when there was an entire "extreme" listing of 4 classes.  Now it is what causes the remaining two classes to be rejected.

I, too, love the existing scoring, but I have to look at the long term picture for NADAC.  If people will enter those classes, more and more of them will really enjoy the challenges and the thrill of a great run without necessarily earning more points.

Sharon

Just my opinion, but I don't think it's the difference in scoring that scares people away from the X classes. I ran EGC just a few times early on, when it was starting, after two of your seminars in CA 2009 and MD 2010. I didn't run it again until recently at one of Lisa's ITZ trials but hope to continue running XHP and XB with Dega when it's available (at 10 1/2 with his health issues Jack may not try them again, but we'll see...). That change has NOTHING to do with the difference in scoring. It is because 1) XHP and XB are now being added on the same day, at the same trials, as other runs and 2) they are now part of the rest of NADAC and "count" for something.

I don't trial as much as some people and usually just on Saturdays. But I already go to as many trials as I can, so I had decided earlier that I simply didn't have the time and funds to pursue Two paths that were mostly separate (also the easy answer, though certainly not the whole answer, when people ask why I don't try other venues).  Not that I didn't understand EGC (I knew that would come with experience), not that it was different, simply that it wasn't convenient or, in my situation, "cost effective."  I understood that what EGC was "teaching"--pathwork, working with the dog without correcting/fixing and interfering with the flow--was valuable.  But the actual classes weren't often available and were a whole 'nother path to take, with only limited opportunities for achievement because of the infrequency. But I am expecting that the recent integration of these two classes into "normal" NADAC may change that. At Lisa's Jan trial there were quite a few of us in novice, many if not most trying it for the first time, that didn't know the scoring (it had been so long I had forgotten anything I might have known :-) but had no problem with the advice "don't try to fix anything and just do it." I think most of us when we start doing ANY agility really don't "get" the scoring rules. (I still don't, to be perfectly honest.). But I don't worry about it...just trying for those connected runs, Q or not.  And that attitude easily carries over to the different scoring of the X classes. I think that as the integration grows (which I hope it will) more people will actually see the classes and be interested/intrigued.  Several of the people at ITZ signed up on the spot out of curiosity. Yes EGC has been around for 6 years...but until Lisa's Jan trial I recall only ONE trial (aside from my first two exposures with Sharon) in 6 years where any X classes were run on days I could attend, and I didn't enter because doing those two classes--with no more being offered on the horizon--was not going to help me progress towards any current goals.  So if I were a brand new to NADAC competitor, that would have been my only exposure in 6 years without going looking specifically for EGC, which was then still a separate entity.  A one day shot at something totally different and no expected chances to try it again any time soon, so the chance to "earn" anything limited to nonexistent.  Not particularly enticing.  I don't mind supporting a trial with $ but with only so much money to spend on agility, there needs to be something for me to justify it. Maybe it's different in other areas, but for me THAT has been the drawback, not scoring differences.  I'm planning to support the Artful Dodgers on Saturday in Feb at their all X class trial because now I am working towards new NADAC titles AND the trial starts on Saturday MIDDAY!!!!  No 4:30 am alarm!!!!!

Even with such little exposure, I liked the way the X classes currently run and are scored.  So, for what it's worth, I agree with the others who have spoken up in support of not changing the scoring in the X classes.
Vicki Storrs
(PS--and Jack votes yes for more time in weavers, TNG, and jumpers :-)
Title: Re: Commonly asked questions about Numbered Hoopers and X-Hoopers
Post by: Linda W. Anderson on January 19, 2016, 05:25:50 AM
For what it's worth, cost has always been the first deciding factor for entering my dogs in the extreme classes.  I enjoy the classes, love the scoring and my dogs enjoy it as well, but... like Vicki, I have limited funds and made the choice long ago to spend them in the traditional classes.  I love Jean McCreight's idea of offering the extreme classes for a discounted price.  For the trials Star City holds, we just don't have enough daylight to add the extreme classes in addition to the regular classes. =(
Linda
Title: Re: Commonly asked questions about Numbered Hoopers and X-Hoopers
Post by: Maureen deHaan on January 20, 2016, 03:11:09 AM
I can't figure out how to do a quote but Sharon wrote:

"I, too, love the existing scoring, but I have to look at the long term picture for NADAC.  If people will enter those classes, more and more of them will really enjoy the challenges and the thrill of a great run without necessarily earning more points."



I disagree Sharon - there has been discussion about the scoring in the Northeast - and the people I've spoken with all want the 5,10,15 points bc not all dogs are made for these games and MORE people are trying them BECAUSE they can earn points if slower and clean or with an out of flow or missed side of the barrel etc... people with newbie dogs or slower dogs still get the positive reinforcement and reward even with a 5pt Q - people LIKE that -its not necessarily about MORE points its about being able to earn even FIVE points - with more and more people trying these events they are getting some Qs and learning about the event and that is a positive - people I've spoken with are diappointed that the scoring is changing and I've been told they will not choose these classes (if they have to make a choice) bc of the scoring change

just sayin'
Title: Re: Commonly asked questions about Numbered Hoopers and X-Hoopers
Post by: Karen Echternacht on January 20, 2016, 05:33:47 AM
With a pending change in scoring, does that also equate to Q ribbons and placements as the other classes offer?
Title: Re: Commonly asked questions about Numbered Hoopers and X-Hoopers
Post by: Kelly Wilson on January 20, 2016, 10:07:27 AM
I am planning on entering the Nadac Sponsored Event in Reno on February 5&7.  I have a question regarding the premium, are there actually 2 extreme hoopers & no weavers?
Title: Re: Commonly asked questions about Numbered Hoopers and X-Hoopers
Post by: mephalon on January 20, 2016, 10:59:18 AM
I am another who is sad that the scoring for Barrelers and X-Hoopers will be changed.   I admit I have not always entered those classes but it has nothing to do with the scoring- in fact the current scoring is an incentive for me to enter-  we can still Q even if we make a mistake or are not the fastest.   As others have said my entry is based on entry fees and offering.   When a trial offers 8 runs a day my dog cannot run and I cannot afford to enter everything so I pick and choose.   If a trial has two Regulars and Weavers on the same day my girl who does not weave gets entered in whatever extreme is being offered that day.   

NADAC already has different scoring for various classes and people deal with it quite well- e.g. a 5 point q in Regular but not in other classes, Veteran Dog in some classes/not in others, Veteran Handler in some classes not in others, Proficient v. Skilled-  why would Barrelers and X-Hoopers having a different scoring method be any different then the fact that you can have a bar down and still Q in Regular but not in Jumpers or Chances?   

I hope the scoring  for Barrelers and X-Hoopers does not change as changing it actually makes me less inclined to enter it with my slower steady eddy boy. 

Thanks for listening. 
Title: Re: Commonly asked questions about Numbered Hoopers and X-Hoopers
Post by: Amanda Nelson on January 20, 2016, 01:34:52 PM
Hi Kelly,
   Yes, a mistake was made on my end and I sent the class order out with the Hoopers but no Weavers. Sorry about that, hope to see you in Reno!
Amanda

I am planning on entering the Nadac Sponsored Event in Reno on February 5&7.  I have a question regarding the premium, are there actually 2 extreme hoopers & no weavers?
Title: Re: Commonly asked questions about Numbered Hoopers and X-Hoopers
Post by: danforth on January 20, 2016, 05:23:05 PM
I also like the old method of scoring XHP.   Cocoa and I do pretty well at Chances and distances, but we are not a speedy team.   Being able to accumulate points towards a title and moving up the challenge has been really nice.   Working towards Novice Superior has been a good goal for us and I would like to be able to complete that and move on.

Isabel
Title: Re: Commonly asked questions about Numbered Hoopers and X-Hoopers
Post by: Team Twodog on January 21, 2016, 01:34:54 AM
Add my vote in favor of keeping the current method of scoring XHP and XBR. I like that there are courses below the level of Bonus that emphasize flow and reward not fixing "mistakes". Also, as one whose dog has been 0.5 sec over time in the other classes more times than I can count, I do think there's something to be said for having a couple of NADAC classes that allow dogs who, for whatever reason, are not as fast to still accumulate a few paltry points now and then.
Title: Re: Commonly asked questions about Numbered Hoopers and X-Hoopers
Post by: Sharon Nelson on January 21, 2016, 05:20:21 PM
With a pending change in scoring, does that also equate to Q ribbons and placements as the other classes offer?

Yes, same as the other classes.

Sharon
Title: Re: Commonly asked questions about Numbered Hoopers and X-Hoopers
Post by: Cynthia & springers on January 25, 2016, 07:14:14 AM
I have tried and enjoyed the X classes- started entering them last year and usually only get 5 pt Qs with my older slower girls.  I have no idea if we would Q with the scoring change-  but still I would like it if the scoring was the same, and I would like it if the veterans & other categories were the same across all the classes, not just for jumping classes.  Seems like I might be in the minority but for me these would be positive changes.

Cynthia & the springers
Title: Re: Commonly asked questions about Numbered Hoopers and X-Hoopers
Post by: Heidi Konesko on January 25, 2016, 12:03:50 PM
I will miss the EGC style scoring too.  I was secretly hoping it would spread into the other classes of nadac.  :)  I think it's really helped with my mindset to keep going, keep working the course, and minimizing the emotional impact of so called "mistakes".  I just checked my points, about 1/3 of Jack's 150 XBR points have been 5 pt'ers, and I never thought of those as a failure.  Oh well.  I will try to hold it in my mind.  Glad I was around for it the way it was these past years.  -Heidi in NH
Title: Re: Commonly asked questions about Numbered Hoopers and X-Hoopers
Post by: Sharon Nelson on January 25, 2016, 12:11:10 PM
I will miss the EGC style scoring too.  I was secretly hoping it would spread into the other classes of nadac.  :)  I think it's really helped with my mindset to keep going, keep working the course, and minimizing the emotional impact of so called "mistakes".  I just checked my points, about 1/3 of Jack's 150 XBR points have been 5 pt'ers, and I never thought of those as a failure.  Oh well.  I will try to hold it in my mind.  Glad I was around for it the way it was these past years.  -Heidi in NH

If this were 1993 and I had thought of EGC scoring, I agree with you totally!  I wish that the entire NADAC program had started with EGC scoring!  I love it!  But what I love isn't always what is best for the overall business and the masses.

Sharon