NADAC Forum

General => General Discussion => Topic started by: Foomin Z on March 18, 2016, 07:12:46 PM

Title: Pep rally for a northeast championships!
Post by: Foomin Z on March 18, 2016, 07:12:46 PM
Hey, New Englanders and people of the other New states! Friends in PA! Let's list some suggestions for where NADAC championships could be held in the northeast.

How about where the AKC last had their nationals up here recently?

http://pafarmshowcomplex.pa.gov/

Anyone else?
Title: Re: Pep rally for a northeast championships!
Post by: giddyup on March 18, 2016, 07:19:33 PM
Dream Park Equestrian Complex in Logan Township, NJ

www.dreamparknj.com
Title: Re: Pep rally for a northeast championships!
Post by: giddyup on March 18, 2016, 07:21:38 PM
www.the-fairgrounds.com

Hamburg, NY
Title: Re: Pep rally for a northeast championships!
Post by: Ed and Dino on March 27, 2016, 12:17:00 PM
Dream Park Equestrian Complex in Logan Township, NJ

www.dreamparknj.com

I know this has been used a lot for AKC trials but from all I've read it would not be suitable for a NADAC championship. No local NADAC trial has ever been held there to my knowledge.
Title: Re: Pep rally for a northeast championships!
Post by: Foomin Z on March 27, 2016, 12:24:07 PM
Dream Park Equestrian Complex in Logan Township, NJ

www.dreamparknj.com

I know this has been used a lot for AKC trials but from all I've read it would not be suitable for a NADAC championship. No local NADAC trial has ever been held there to my knowledge.

How is it unsuitable? Please describe.
Title: Re: Pep rally for a northeast championships!
Post by: Ed and Dino on March 27, 2016, 12:41:52 PM
Dream Park Equestrian Complex in Logan Township, NJ

www.dreamparknj.com

How is it unsuitable? Please describe.

I know this has been used a lot for AKC trials but from all I've read it would not be suitable for a NADAC championship. No local NADAC trial has ever been held there to my knowledge.

For one there is only about 50 RV spots and they are all essentially on a gravel parking lot, not the nicest spot to spend a week with your dogs.

Over the years there have been a lot of complaints about air quality in the buildings there very dusty at times.

And once again no local group has held a NADAC trial there. There must be a local group willing to help coordinate the Championships and at this point not a lot of NADAC exhibitors could comment on the suitability because few of us have ever been there but I do know RV is limited and this is very important to people coming from all points of the US and Canada.

Title: Re: Pep rally for a northeast championships!
Post by: Sharon Nelson on March 27, 2016, 02:47:00 PM

How is it unsuitable? Please describe.


For one there is only about 50 RV spots and they are all essentially on a gravel parking lot, not the nicest spot to spend a week with your dogs.

Over the years there have been a lot of complaints about air quality in the buildings there very dusty at times.

And once again no local group has held a NADAC trial there. There must be a local group willing to help coordinate the Championships and at this point not a lot of NADAC exhibitors could comment on the suitability because few of us have ever been there but I do know RV is limited and this is very important to people coming from all points of the US and Canada.

True, we need at least 125 RV spots.  We also need a minimum of a clear span area of 125x300, with good seating, good vendor area, good crating area. 

For example, South Jordan had a great arena, vendor area and adequate RV parking, but the crating is less than what we want, which is why we keep trying to find a better site in the western half of the US.

Springfield has great crating, vendor area, a second arena to rent, RV a little bit far, but plenty of them.  Ring surface sucks now, it used to be the best in the US, but they can't financially afford to update it back to what it used to be so it is just broken down shavings into a dusty dirty, easily packed down surface.  And there is that sunlight issue!

We are looking at a site that looks good in N. Carolina, one in Georgia and one in KY for 2017.

We are willing to look at NE sites, but none of them have met our needs yet.  The ones that have the arena and crating are not affordable.

Sharon

Title: Re: Pep rally for a northeast championships!
Post by: mephalon on March 27, 2016, 03:48:29 PM
Do the RV spots have to be hookups or just space? 

Oh and as to Dream Park I think the reason no NADAC club has had a trial there is not necessarily because of the facility. Speaking as an NJ NADAC club we have our dates/sites all set up and are not looking to change anything.  So it should not be ruled out just because no NADAC trials have been held there.

Mary
Title: Re: Pep rally for a northeast championships!
Post by: mephalon on March 28, 2016, 05:44:38 AM
What about New Hope Farms in Port Jervis, NY

300' x 175' show arena (with spectator stands) plus adjoining 120' x 80' warm-up ring

website: http://www.frontiernet.net/~nhfarms/index.htm

Mary
Title: Re: Pep rally for a northeast championships!
Post by: Maureen deHaan on March 28, 2016, 06:14:27 AM
From what I understand the footing at dream park would never meet NADAC standards...I have never run there, but well respected people in NADAC have been there and wouldn't go back bc the ground was too hard

Re: Port Jervis..I inquired there for hosting trials ..holy expensive ..

Re: RVS not sure hook ups are a must but many people are on site for a week or more so really they are kind of needed...

I thought there was an awesome place in VA - huge horse arena with seating etc... saw some video of agility there a couple of years back
Title: Re: Pep rally for a northeast championships!
Post by: mephalon on March 28, 2016, 07:55:28 AM
Not technically the northeast but how about the Virginia Equestrian Center?   

Arena is 150 x 300

http://www.horsecenter.org/About.aspx

Mary
Title: Re: Pep rally for a northeast championships!
Post by: giddyup on March 28, 2016, 08:18:10 AM
How about The Fairgrounds in Hamburg, NY?  20 minutes south of Buffalo
(716) 649-3900  Ask for EJ Gonser.  It sounds very promising as far as space seating and RV spots.  I don't know if it's had agility shows there YET, but they have had other (conformation/obedience?) dog shows there
Title: Re: Pep rally for a northeast championships!
Post by: giddyup on March 28, 2016, 08:20:09 AM
sorry forgot the link to my above comment

www.the-fairgrounds.com


Title: Re: Pep rally for a northeast championships!
Post by: Lisa Schmit In The Zone Agility on March 28, 2016, 11:19:43 AM
While Springfield in 2015 was not as nice as 2013, I still liked the surface and then sunlight issue was taken care of with the covering.   I still think Springfield was better than any other champs surface that I have been to so far.

That being said, what about Ohio State Fairgrounds?  Indiana State Fairgrounds??    I recall them being awesome places when I showed horses back in the day !



Title: Re: Pep rally for a northeast championships!
Post by: mephalon on March 28, 2016, 11:37:09 AM
The Champions Center in Springfield OH may suffice as well.

http://www.championscenter.net/

Title: Re: Pep rally for a northeast championships!
Post by: MoabDiane on March 28, 2016, 04:59:49 PM
OK, every pep rally has a nay-sayer, right?  That'll be me this time!  Please don't hate me.....

Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, Missouri, Kansas....none qualify as "northeast."  But that's as far as I'm willing to/can go.
I know west coast folks think of Illinois as "east" - but I do like the middle-of-the-country locales.
Southeast isn't my favorite either - too many ticks/fleas/mites!  Not to mention humidity....

OK, back to my lovely dry desert life.   8)

diane
Title: Re: Pep rally for a northeast championships!
Post by: Foomin Z on March 29, 2016, 09:00:17 AM
Rebels generally go behind the bleachers to smoke by themselves, rather than joining the pep rally, right?

I still don't understand why the Harrisburg, PA location is unsuitable. AKC champs were there recently, and their nationals entry is much, much larger than NADAC. Surely there is enough space there.

Also, why would Georgia and North Carolina be considered, when there are so few NADAC trials in each of those states? I was looking at trials scheduled in the NADAC calendar. Are they central to a significant portion of NADAC membership?
Title: Re: Pep rally for a northeast championships!
Post by: mephalon on March 29, 2016, 09:13:26 AM
Space is not the only criteria from what I understand.   It may be the first hurdle but then you need to take price into account and the running surface.   From my understanding, and no disrespect to that organization intended, AKC is not quite as conscientious as to what they think an acceptable surface may be.       

It is hard to find the perfect storm of a place big enough with the right surface that does not break the bank.

Title: Re: Pep rally for a northeast championships!
Post by: Sara Langston on March 30, 2016, 06:45:07 AM
Also, why would Georgia and North Carolina be considered, when there are so few NADAC trials in each of those states? I was looking at trials scheduled in the NADAC calendar. Are they central to a significant portion of NADAC membership?

We are fighting/struggling soooooooooo hard to bring more NADAC to the Southeast that, maybe, if Champs was in GA, we could show people what fun it is and generate lots more interest.  Having Champs in this part of the country would certainly give the "fence sitters" a chance to experience NADAC.  It would also help our trial entries to know Champs would be coming to this area.  People would have something to work towards.   JMHO

Sara Langston, Laughing Dog Agility
Title: Re: Pep rally for a northeast championships!
Post by: KarissaKS on March 30, 2016, 07:50:31 AM
Sadly, having NADAC Championships in IL (twice now) has not helped raise interest in Wisconsin and Minnesota.   :(  We continue to lose NADAC trials/clubs.

I'll admit that my thinking is selfish because I live in the middle, but I do think that the more central locations open up the possibility of attending to the greatest number of people.
Title: Re: Pep rally for a northeast championships!
Post by: Foomin Z on March 30, 2016, 03:39:48 PM
Alternating between a west location and a "central" location is still forcing eastern US exhibitors to make the greater effort to attend. It's a reality in other venues that not everyone can make every nationals due to location rotation. If a venue wants to be inclusive, it should give everyone a fair chance.

While it is true that holding the TDAA champs in Vermont doubled their normal nationals entry, attendance at regular TDAA trials afterward did not hold in the region. That has to do with the rules that are in place for regular trials. It's a challenging venue. If people don't like the rules for the regular trials, they will not attend.
Title: Re: Pep rally for a northeast championships!
Post by: Ed and Dino on March 30, 2016, 05:12:28 PM
Alternating between a west location and a "central" location is still forcing eastern US exhibitors to make the greater effort to attend. It's a reality in other venues that not everyone can make every nationals due to location rotation. If a venue wants to be inclusive, it should give everyone a fair chance.

While it is true that holding the TDAA champs in Vermont doubled their normal nationals entry, attendance at regular TDAA trials afterward did not hold in the region. That has to do with the rules that are in place for regular trials. It's a challenging venue. If people don't like the rules for the regular trials, they will not attend.

From our East coast locations we may think Utah is the West but if you were a Nadac exhibitor living in Oregon or Washington (state) I doubt you'd consider Utah an easy, quick trip. It is all a matter of perspective. Illinois may not be East coast but it is the East for people living west of the Mississippi. If Champs was located in the NE I doubt someone on the east coast of Florida or Georgia would consider it close to them. For people in the eastern half of the US Illinois is certainly closer than Utah.

One of the hardest things for the Eastern States is "COST" a facility is likely to cost much more on the East Coast. Breakeven is a very important consideration.

An as aside it would be good if people sign there posts. From mine you see I'm speaking from the expensive state of NJ where we tax you on everything and charge you a fortune to drive on our turnpike especially if you are hauling a trailer.
Title: Re: Pep rally for a northeast championships!
Post by: Pam Kaye on March 30, 2016, 07:47:00 PM
I'm following this conversation with interest, but I don't know who Foomin Z is.  Could you also tell us your name?  Not that I'd know you, since I'm from the West coast and presume you are from the other one, but it's just nice to know who folks are.
Title: Re: Pep rally for a northeast championships!
Post by: Foomin Z on March 30, 2016, 10:29:05 PM
Here's a place I went to for a UKC on PA trial years ago.

http://www.diamond7arena.com

And I found another in PA:

http://www.mountainspringarena.com/Arena-Rental.html

Title: Re: Pep rally for a northeast championships!
Post by: Vicki Storrs on March 31, 2016, 04:32:36 AM
Here's a place I went to for a UKC on PA trial years ago.

http://www.diamond7arena.com

And I found another in PA:

http://www.mountainspringarena.com/Arena-Rental.html

The second one, mountain springs, says on the first page that the arena is 125' X 225', so too small for the Champs minimum requirements of 125' X 300' clear span.
Title: Re: Pep rally for a northeast championships!
Post by: TheQuestKnight on March 31, 2016, 08:59:06 AM
I have followed this thread with a great deal of interest, even though I have no vested interest in where Championships are held, since my NADAC agility is now restricted to portions of VT designs that I can set up in our yard for our dogs.  However, during my active time in agility, in one way or another, I have participated in Championship, National and Regional events in multiple venues in capacities ranging from being a member of the ring crew, to a judge to helping organize, produce and direct the event.  Organizing, producing and directing the event is BY FAR the MOST STRESSFUL and MOST THANKLESS job(s) of all, so please....................for the sake of the NADAC "Brass", keep that foremost in your mind and your posts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

NADAC is the ONLY venue that I know of that does NOT have corporate sponsors for their events.  I've NEVER seen banners or advertisements hanging around the rings, or in show catalogs.......................or anywhere..............................the entire event is OF NADAC, BY NADAC and FOR NADAC's human and canine extended family.  ALL of the equipment is brought in by NADAC from NADAC headquarters..................there are NO equipment manufacturers supplying the equipment that they then sell to the highest bidder after the event.  NONE of the equipment is wired with cameras for views of dogs in tunnels or wherever for post-event video productions, so the burden of paying the bills rests with NADAC.....................

NO ONE is more particular as it involves as near perfect running surface for dogs and handlers as is NADAC and Sharon Nelson..............................and that includes differently-abled handlers that use mobility carts, etc..................................and I would conservatively estimate that 95% of arena surfaces would NOT meet NADAC's criteria without some modifications and "soil" enhancements, so the site management also needs to be willing to work with NADAC to bring the running surface up to NADAC specifications.

As Ed pointed up.............................anywhere near the east coast, west coast or the Gulf Of Mexico is in "the rent is too damn high" district......................and that also includes food, lodging, fuel...................just about everything and anything.

Given the time of year that NADAC holds it's championships, EVERY section of the country has it's fair share of positives and negatives.  We live in northeast Ohio, so I can speak relatively comfortably when it comes to the upper Midwest............................and we travel extensively in New England.....................

Also, IMHO, NO other agility venue provides as many exhibitor perks in the way of ribbons, rosettes, awards and other tangible forms of recognition of achievements as does NADAC at their Championships.............................and, again IMHO, NO other venue offers as many options to be able to come and participate!

In the upper Midwest, put Lyme disease-carrying deer ticks at the top of the liabilities list...................and the NASTY critters are EVERYWHERE..............................ditto the northeast on that one.  Upper Midwest weather can range from "early November rain" to a pleasant Autumn day to as HOT, HUMID and MUGGY as the southeast.

Suitable sized arenas are FEW and FAR between........................in general, we are not as "horse-centric" as other areas of the country, so the demand for those types of arenas is not particularly high, save for the state and assorted county fairs, and many of those are on a downhill slide and facilities are really showing their "rust belt" age.  If you happen to be in search of convention centers, concert venues and sports arenas.........................we have many hundreds to choose from in all shapes and sizes.

However, even in inland states, where costs tend to be less than in coastal regions, get too close to the Finger Lakes in New York, Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Columbus, Cincinnati, Indianapolis, Chicago, etc.......................and the costs jump...............................and the downside there is that those cities are in overall states of decay, save a few pockets where there is a small revival.

Also, the upper Midwest is NOT exactly a "hot bed" of NADAC activity...........................for 2016, there are 0 (ZERO) scheduled trials in Ohio, 3 scheduled trials (1 club) in east-central Michigan 6 scheduled trials (2 clubs) in northwestern New York, 0 scheduled trials in Pennsylvania, 6 scheduled trials (1 club) in Kentucky, 2 scheduled trials (2 clubs) in Indiana and 11 scheduled trials in Illinois (2 clubs)......................NOT a substantial exhibitor base to support a Championships in the upper Midwest UNLESS A LOT of folks from both east and west of Ol' Man River commit to come!

It has been my experience that NADAC "bends over backwards" to be as fair to as many exhibitors as they can be; but when the final decision is made regarding location, there MUST be an expectation of breaking even financially..........................and perhaps even realizing a little profit, which always finds it's way back into the betterment of NADAC.

Does it suck to live a great distance from where you'd like to go?  Yes.  Does it suck to live in a NADAC desert? Yes.  Is the most important thing the fact that we have an agility venue that is committed to and cares about our and our dogs' safety above all else, provides those of us that live in NADAC deserts to still find a way via the VT program to earn titles and awards, provides us with accessible course designs that we can use to teach our dogs needed skills???  IMHO, YES...................................and those POSITIVES FAR OUTWEIGH ANY negatives regarding where...........................or where not...........................Championships are held.

Respectfully,

Al & Barb Ceranko, Pelli, Katie & Lily in Ohio   
Title: Re: Pep rally for a northeast championships!
Post by: Foomin Z on March 31, 2016, 10:20:05 AM
I didn't know it was wrong to gather information. I didn't know someone here said Champs MUST be held in the north east. I didn't know someone said these required northeast Champs must be held in 2017. I didn't know it was wrong to try to raise interest in a region. I mistakenly thought it would be fun to discuss this. I mistakenly thought I could be involved in leading a discussion. But I won't apologize for trying, even though it seems I have offended the status quo. I'll go to a NADAC Champs someday. I will do my best not to bother anyone there.
Title: Re: Pep rally for a northeast championships!
Post by: TheQuestKnight on March 31, 2016, 11:22:14 AM
There is NOTHING "wrong" with gathering information!  However, in an open forum setting, some of the information that you gather may run counter to your point of view.

There is NO "status quo" in NADAC!  NADAC is, IMHO, the most progressive agility venue in existence.....................and receptive to discussing just about anything in a civil manner.....................

There have been contributors to this thread that have been long-time NADAC associates, perhaps some even go back to NADAC's inception in 1993...........................and they have multiple Championships experiences.

Personally, I joined NADAC in 2004; but depending on perspective at any given moment in time, I have had both the fortune and mis-fortune of experiencing agility from the viewpoint of the exhibitor as well as a member of the corporate structure of an agility venue...........................and sometimes as both, since I participated in multiple venues.

The ONLY thing that I see being offered up here are FACTS coming from experienced exhibitors.

While "pep rallies" can be fun, if the team doesn't have ALL of it's "i"s dotted and "t"s crossed the rally starts out il..................and quickly becomes seriously ill..........................

If you are indeed serious about leading a serious discussion on this subject, I would strongly suggest that you initiate contact with the NADAC office and get a FULL LISTING of Championships requirements as far as the physical facilities are concerned.  IF you are able to find such a location, the submit with the details after you ensure that the site meets ALL of NADAC's criteria.  At least then, NADAC would be in a position to begin negotiating costs...........................so even if all physical conditions are met, there is still NO guarantee!

It's one thing to say "I want................." or "It would be nice if................."; but it's quite another to grab the bull by the tail, face the situation.........................and go about putting together a proposal worthy of consideration................................

Perhaps I am mistaken, which is possible, it's happened a time or two before in my life <LOL>; but the "Rebels generally go behind the bleachers to smoke by themselves, rather than joining..." comment seemed a bit "chippy" to me, then again, perhaps I am too thin-skinned to be on an open forum......................since those that I assume you consider "rebels" have ALL had the courage...............and courtesy...........................to identify themselves.  Et tu, Foomin Z?

Al & Barb Ceranko, Pelli, Katie & Lily in Ohio

 
Title: Re: Pep rally for a northeast championships!
Post by: Rosemary on March 31, 2016, 12:00:59 PM
I live in the Northeast and am hoping to qualify for a trip to Champs in 2017 or later.  I see no harm in opening a discussion to see if it can be held a little closer to home.  I would think starting a discussion would be the first step in getting information.  Here in little RI there are at least 6 trials on the calendar.  There are many in NJ, VT, MD, PA and NY. 

I totally appreciate that NADAC has high standards and will not compromise them.  I also appreciate that those in charge are open to suggestions.  Personally, I think this conversation should be held and considered as just that.  Conversation.

Rosemary
Connecticut
Title: Re: Pep rally for a northeast championships!
Post by: Foomin Z on March 31, 2016, 01:17:27 PM
A forum is a place for discussion, a conversation, as Rosemary helpfully pointed out. I thank her for that.

A forum is not a planning committee, as some people are seeing it here. Nothing is being set in stone here. Or is it??

And I have to explain jokes? No one has seen movies about high schools/pep rallies/rebels behind bleachers? It's a standard trope. The 1980's were filled with this scenario in entertainment. Will adding "LOL" or "haha" at the end of jokes be helpful? I get the feeling I am at one of those political rallies I read about on the news that are encouraging people to take care of others with their fists. Haha.

TDAA champs were fun. DOCNA champs were fun. CPE champs were fun, but none increased attendance at local/regional trials. People will enter what they want. What champs does is give extra pride for the locals who get to host it. It's an honor, and it is a ton of work. It's a festival for the region. Even if it doesn't come back to that place for ten years or more, like AAC champs this year for Montreal, no one should be saying, "Champs should not be in X place," and leave it at that with no logical or helpful explanation. That is hurtful and rude to the people who live there and are fans of the venue.

I took the lead in ASKING if anyone knew of someplace suitable for a NADAC champs. The internet can be sometimes difficult to search. Maybe there are hidden gems that someone lives near and could share. It happens! I had no idea such a large facility existed in Hamburg, NY, what I thought was such a rural area of western NY. I thought the NY state fairgrounds were the big fairgrounds in the state, and I sure wouldn't suggest that. It's kind of dirty there with a lot of asphalt paving. Same for the Big E grounds in Springfield, MA. There's a lot of various agility trials in the Hamburg/Buffalo area, with lots of dog-friendly hotels, places to eat, and an airport right there. People could even zip over to the famous Falls if they wanted to. Is that fairgrounds up to NADAC spec? I don't know. Maybe someone else here does.
Title: Re: Pep rally for a northeast championships!
Post by: Vicki Storrs on March 31, 2016, 05:06:12 PM
Dear Ms/mrZ or may I call you Foomin?  I will now say Ha ha, because, yes I intended that as a joke. That is a funny "call sign"!  I would LOVE to hear the story behind it!  But is that how you took it initially?  It is So Easy to take offense when we're reading the typed word. We all have to remember that, both as a poster and as a reader. Most people do Not intend to offend, so I find it easier on my own sanity to just assume that there is no ill intent. And if they Did intend to offend, well, then they can just be disappointed in me. :-)
I don't think Anybody had a problem with you looking for people to suggest possible new locations for champs. I live in VA so Yay for a site closer than IL!  However NADAC Does have specific requirements, the basics of which Sharon kindly spelled out, as much as she could--arena surface being something which NADAC is puts huge emphasis on but it can't be "spelled out."  Many/most do not correlate at all with either local clubs requirements or even other venues championship requirements. So when someone suggests a site that states on its website link that it's arena is too small, I went ahead and commented on that. Not that anyone was wrong to mention it, but no sense in people, especially NADAC "brass" wasting their time checking on it when it doesn't meet the minimums.
I have only been to Champs twice--IL in 2013 and 2015. I could be wrong, but I didn't consider it as being "hosted" by any local clubs--it seems like a NADAC production, with support from EVERYONE. I had such a good time in 2013 I encouraged others to try it in 2015...I think there were at least 6 newbies from this area who went in 2015 and had such a good time several are making plans to drive to Utah this year!  I certainly hope you can make it to Champs in the future and I hope you have a Fantastic time. And I hope I get to share a laugh with you, wherever it is!
Vicki Storrs
Title: Re: Pep rally for a northeast championships!
Post by: Foomin Z on March 31, 2016, 05:24:36 PM
It's not like human names get called at the gate, only the dog's! I am used to it.

Champs may be a NADAC production, I am still interested in providing links to possible locations. It is not my job to inquire about footing. Like I said before, hidden gems may be found.

I had another thought. Must it be dirt? There has been such a surge in using indoor sports complexes for agility trials in the northeast. Now when I look for trials to enter and I see it listed as "indoors," it is at a sports facility more often than not. Rhode Island's been "leading" the way in that. Their location has a cool glass second floor from which to watch the action below. However, I have also heard it can be difficult to get this type of place when weather is cooler because the outdoor soccer leagues take preference over dog shows indoors. But this style of facility may open up more options for locations.
Title: Re: Pep rally for a northeast championships!
Post by: MoabDiane on March 31, 2016, 06:09:23 PM
Not offended by the "rebel" comment....and have stated MY opinion.  That was all.

And just for the record:  I don't think having Champs in a "NADAC desert" is a problem.  This is the second year it has been held in Utah, and unless Sharon or another NADAC guru comes to Moab, there are NO - as in, none, nada, zip, zilch! - NADAC trials in Utah.  Anywhere.  I'm it.  And I'm 225 miles away from the Champs site.  (and thankful it is so close, definitely!)

Sure, it helps to have "local" help.  But NADAC folks always pitch in, and wherever Champs are held, there are people willing to make it work, from the top on down. 

Back to your regularly scheduled programming....
diane

Title: Re: Pep rally for a northeast championships!
Post by: Chris Nelson on March 31, 2016, 07:17:24 PM
Everybody has some good points and I'm glad we've stayed civil in what should be a nice civil conversation.   

We really appreciate any new ideas for sites.  Nothing is taken for granted in the helpful information department.

Its definite that some sites won't meet our requirements.  But we won't know that until we check.

So keep the ideas coming and if we get a good amount of people all suggesting the same place we'll look into it further :)



Sent from my VS985 4G using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Pep rally for a northeast championships!
Post by: KarissaKS on March 31, 2016, 07:25:03 PM

TDAA champs were fun. DOCNA champs were fun. CPE champs were fun, but none increased attendance at local/regional trials.

CPE in the upper midwest absolutely exploded the first year that CPE Nationals came to MN. Honestly, that's when NADAC started to dwindle in this region because people jumped ship for CPE and never came back. We also see much higher attendance at USDAA trials in years where Cynosports is not 2000+ miles away. AKC numbers are pretty steady, can't say I noticed a change this past year qualifying for Tulsa vs the year before in Reno (I knew I wasn't going to Reno, but I still qualified my dog anyhow).

In general, I feel that the location of an organization's national/championship competition does tend to have an effect on the local trial numbers. I know people who trialed more to qualify for Champs in Springfield (myself included), but the numbers were not high enough to make a difference and those were people who already did NADAC. I can't think of a single person in my area who started in or came back to NADAC for the purpose of attending Championships.

There are an astonishing number of people that I talk to at USDAA and AKC trials who used to compete in NADAC. Most of them appear to have stopped back during the time when the teeter was taken away and wouldn't even consider coming back due to the changes that have happened since then. People just have too many options to choose from in this area and they aren't choosing NADAC.

I recently lost my local club -- which is the primary place I attended NADAC trials (up to 10 a year in previous years) -- trials that averaged about 120-160 runs per trial day, so I'm sure you can understand why they are no longer around. With Champs all the way out in Utah this year I'm not worried about qualifying my dogs. I plan to go to a trial over Memorial Day weekend, but that might be my only NADAC trial of the year because my traveling time and money go to other organizations right now. And that's a bummer, because Kaiser is a NADAC dog through and through -- he hates AKC and can't even play in USDAA because of the jump heights.
Title: Re: Pep rally for a northeast championships!
Post by: Maureen deHaan on April 01, 2016, 10:03:03 AM
It's not like human names get called at the gate, only the dog's! I am used to it.

Champs may be a NADAC production, I am still interested in providing links to possible locations. It is not my job to inquire about footing. Like I said before, hidden gems may be found.

I had another thought. Must it be dirt? There has been such a surge in using indoor sports complexes for agility trials in the northeast. Now when I look for trials to enter and I see it listed as "indoors," it is at a sports facility more often than not. Rhode Island's been "leading" the way in that. Their location has a cool glass second floor from which to watch the action below. However, I have also heard it can be difficult to get this type of place when weather is cooler because the outdoor soccer leagues take preference over dog shows indoors. But this style of facility may open up more options for locations.

I am not sure of the foot requirement HAVING to be dirt - but I can say that the entries may suffer. Many people - me included - will not run on turf (honestly - I don't like the surface in RI - My dog slips on it and she has run on it a few times at different points in the last 8 years (and I see a lot of other dogs not able to keep their legs under them and their handlers don't recognize it as such)

 I would not spend the money & time  it costs to attend Champs on an unknown artificial surface - heck I won't even put out $ for an unknown surface for trials in my "area" (which includes a 5 hour driving radius) - grass and dirt for my team only

I can't imagine that Sharon would want dogs running on turf for so many days if she felt that the surface in Springfield, Il was tiring the dogs out (I do recall her saying this somewhere)  . I for one love the surface in Springfield - although I did notice its decline since 2013 - Kiva put up some of her fastest DRI runs at the 2015 Champs.
Title: Re: Pep rally for a northeast championships!
Post by: TheQuestKnight on April 01, 2016, 10:49:57 AM
I cannot say with 100% certainty; but I'm pretty dang sure that field turf, horse stall matting and RB rubber surfaces are all on the unacceptable running surfaces list.............................they were for us and ours for many years...................................

Please be aware that the following are my OPINIONS.....................and although I do not intend to offend anyone, I AM a "sarcastic snot".....................and some folks can't see the humor through the sarcasm, so if I come across as Beavis' buddy, so be it....................I've been called worse to my face................

I think that any venue that locates it's Championships, Nationals, Regionals or other major event in an area in hopes of boosting interest in their venue is, in most circumstances, throwing good money after bad.....................it simply isn't going to work.

My case in point.....................a 2008 NADAC FunRaiser in Ohio that Lisa Lautermilch worked long and hard to put together.........................and Sharon, Becky, Arlene Courtney and others brought the whole shootin' match to Upper Sandusky, Ohio.  Well, the 8 or 9 of us that attended that FunRaiser had a BLAST!!!!!!!!!!!!  We and our dogs got to spend time with Sharon & Becky, we ate well, we had live music in the evening to listen to, our dogs had FUN courses to run; but without seeing the numbers, NADAC took a financial BATH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

...................................and it did NOT do one thing to boost interest in NADAC in Ohio...........................

IMHO, Championships should NEVER be held out as a "carrot" for a region that is particularly supportive of the venue..................................that only serves to encourage competition between regions.....................and all too often, that competition can get down-right NASTY...................which isn't good for anyone!

Back in the good ol' days.......................there are probably still a few of you that remember 30 inch jumps, the crossover, the sliding board, the water jump and so on.........................teams that got into Championship/National events were the "creme de la creme" and REALLY had to EARN their way in by near flawless performances in a VERY few trials.

As agility grew with new venues, new ideas and many new exhibitors..........................I honestly feel...........................looking back with a very critical, BRITISH eye, here in America, we've "dumbed down" the sport.  OK.....................that is NOT necessarily a bad thing; because more people and dogs were able and are able to enjoy it.  However, titles, awards and the ability to enter championship level events became far too easy due to the number of trials.................................and the opportunities that teams had to qualify for those events.................................but; in general, the entry requirements also became more lax...........................rather than more stringent to reflect the increased opportunities.

This forum is for NADAC topics, so I feel that it's inappropriate to compare NADAC to whatever other venues choose to do.

For as long as I've been involved with NADAC, NADAC has highlighted several very important skills...................the most important of which is TEAMWORK, followed by the ability to work at distance and speed................................and their course design facilitates those skills.

For me, NADAC Championships is truly defined by SuperStakes.............................everything else is pretty much "fluff" because SuperStakes embodies the best of the best that NADAC holds dearest...........................

To that end, Championships should be located in an area that provides the easiest access for the SuperStakes teams.................................and then the other pieces can fall where they may..............................

We live in a time where it seems that nearly everyone gets a "participation trophy" for simply showing up and paying the entry fee.................................and IMHO, that needs to STOP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yes, Championships should be FUN.....................and they ARE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

..........................but they should be DIFFICULT to gain access to................................teams should have to prove themselves to be in the top few percent of the venues teams................and they should be pushed to the extreme.....................mentally..............................and both human and canine should be pushed to SAFE, LOGICAL limits...............................and then.........................and only then, can you crown a "true champion", IMHO...............................

Look...........................NOT everybody can earn a World Series ring, an Olympic Medal................or even win a local chili cook-off; but that doesn't mean that we can have FUN playing baseball, participating in sports that are Olympic sports............................or enjoy eating and cooking our own special chili!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

.........................and in case any of you were wondering, I and my mine took advantage of lax entry requirements and earned stuff that we really didn't deserve at championship level events......................and yes, I had direct influence in one venue that basically created participation awards as long as you paid for enough entry feels.............................

I am NOT proud of any of that.........................and I am embarrassed that I and my dogs did that kind of damage to a most honorable sport......................but I think that it's important that newcomers to the sport  understand that, depending on their venue of choice, some of us with the best of intentions at the time....................................didn't know what we were doing............................and we screwed things up.............................................and now, for some reason, some of you feel that you are somehow entitled to be able to continue to abuse certain aspects of "the system"........................

For all of it's perceived flaws, NADAC REALLY GETS IT RIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  I've been around long enough to know QUALITY and INTEGRITY when I see it...............................and that, folks, IS NADAC..................................

.......................and FWIW, I'd personally LOVE to see NADAC Championships in New England in September...........................but knowing what I know, it's a long-shot; but best wishes for success!!!!!!!!!!!!

Respectfully,

Al Ceranko, Kali........at The Bridge Bar & Grille, Pelli, Katie & Lily................Barb Ceranko, Flurry, Dred & Gael at The Bridge Bar & Grille, Pelli, Katie & Lily 
Title: Re: Pep rally for a northeast championships!
Post by: Marj Vincent on April 01, 2016, 11:00:30 AM
This is a great thread!!

Lots of good ideas and places have been suggested and I am sure the NADAC office will review all of them.

Besides all the criteria that Sharon posted, I can add few more details and needs.

The crating area would need to be in another building or a separate enclosed area other than the arena building.  I noticed some of the sites have stalls or open space suitable for crating within the same building as the arena and bleachers.....BUT....because eacg run is live streamed by Three Pines Video, there can not be any other dogs barking, screaming or howling during the runs. And trust me, this happens all day long in the crating areas. I would hate to have a run ruined by another person's dog upsetting the dog in the ring or listen to a dog screaming because an owner took his second dog out, on my personal video.

So avoid this, NADAC tries to find locations where dogs can be crated indoors in another building. At Gillette there was an attached enclosed building with concrete floor space (with power) that worked great. Easy access to the arena but dogs were not heard out in the ring. At Illinois, the dogs were crated indoors in the horse stalls across the driveway from the arena.  In Utah, the dogs are crated in the stalls located next to the arena across the driveway, even though not fully enclosed in a building...not the best scenario but it worked okay.

There also needs to be an area for the vendors with power available.  Plus room for the awards/ribbon wall area (20'x30' space) and an area for the huge raffle that takes place (usually 12-15 tables are used for the raffle, a 15 x 30' area?). Ultimately, the vendors, awards and raffle area would like to be on concrete vs dirt. Dirt gets into and on everything! But if dirt is the only option, then we live with it!  It's not a deal breaker, just a desired wish.....

Another requirement would be to have some grass available to potty dogs or exercise them.  The larger the better since this is going to be a week long event. If the grass area is too small, the 150+ attending dogs will destroy it and it will become a cesspool.

A food vendor on site is also a good thing!!

Just some thoughts while people search for places.

 
Title: Re: Pep rally for a northeast championships!
Post by: Ed and Dino on April 02, 2016, 07:04:56 PM
Thank you Marj for providing more information on the type of facility that is desired.

I believe this whole conversation has been quite civil and informative. However I felt challenged when I was asked to specifically say why I thought Dream Park was not adequate. I have not asked everyone posting a site link to say why they thought it would be a great location. NADAC can not check out every location suggested based on some link. Someone needs to take some time to visit a site to see if it is a good fit. If a location has been used for a dog agility event previously is helpful to know too.

Both Marj and Sharon have provided good information for what a site needs to have.

I currently am not competing in any venue but I hope to someday see my sister and her beagle make it to NADAC Champs. I'd love to see it closer to NJ in a few years.

If her dog eventually makes the grade for Champs, we will find a way to get to the Champs location wherever that may be.

West, South, North, Central, East, Canada, Australia wherever NADAC needs to go we will try to follow.

Title: Re: Pep rally for a northeast championships!
Post by: Sharon Nelson on April 02, 2016, 08:02:44 PM
Thank you Marj for providing more information on the type of facility that is desired.

I believe this whole conversation has been quite civil and informative. However I felt challenged when I was asked to specifically say why I thought Dream Park was not adequate. I have not asked everyone posting a site link to say why they thought it would be a great location. NADAC can not check out every location suggested based on some link. Someone needs to take some time to visit a site to see if it is a good fit. If a location has been used for a dog agility event previously is helpful to know too.

Both Marj and Sharon have provided good information for what a site needs to have.

I currently am not competing in any venue but I hope to someday see my sister and her beagle make it to NADAC Champs. I'd love to see it closer to NJ in a few years.

If her dog eventually makes the grade for Champs, we will find a way to get to the Champs location wherever that may be.

West, South, North, Central, East, Canada, Australia wherever NADAC needs to go we will try to follow.

Ed, thank you!  You always have great input and a great sense of what is needed.  And your humor is always welcome!!

Give Dino an extra pat for me!  Love that dog!

Sharon
Title: Re: Pep rally for a northeast championships!
Post by: bhodges865 on April 11, 2016, 05:26:24 AM
Do the RV spots have to be hookups or just space? 

As a die-hard rver....YES, we do want hookups for a weeks time.  Especially if there is more than 1 person in the rv.  There is NO way myself and hubby could dry camp for an entire week.  That is a big plus in the Southeast, most trials are at horse facilities with hookups and/or amenities.
Title: Re: Pep rally for a northeast championships!
Post by: nicksparks on April 12, 2016, 09:24:24 PM
Lexington VA - Lexington Horse Center.  Great location, wonderful town, enough RV parking.
nick
Title: Re: Pep rally for a northeast championships!
Post by: Wild Terriers on May 01, 2016, 08:29:17 PM
It's not like human names get called at the gate, only the dog's! I am used to it.

Champs may be a NADAC production, I am still interested in providing links to possible locations. It is not my job to inquire about footing. Like I said before, hidden gems may be found.

I had another thought. Must it be dirt? There has been such a surge in using indoor sports complexes for agility trials in the northeast. Now when I look for trials to enter and I see it listed as "indoors," it is at a sports facility more often than not. Rhode Island's been "leading" the way in that. Their location has a cool glass second floor from which to watch the action below. However, I have also heard it can be difficult to get this type of place when weather is cooler because the outdoor soccer leagues take preference over dog shows indoors. But this style of facility may open up more options for locations.

I am not sure of the foot requirement HAVING to be dirt - but I can say that the entries may suffer. Many people - me included - will not run on turf (honestly - I don't like the surface in RI - My dog slips on it and she has run on it a few times at different points in the last 8 years (and I see a lot of other dogs not able to keep their legs under them and their handlers don't recognize it as such)

 I would not spend the money & time  it costs to attend Champs on an unknown artificial surface - heck I won't even put out $ for an unknown surface for trials in my "area" (which includes a 5 hour driving radius) - grass and dirt for my team only

I can't imagine that Sharon would want dogs running on turf for so many days if she felt that the surface in Springfield, Il was tiring the dogs out (I do recall her saying this somewhere)  . I for one love the surface in Springfield - although I did notice its decline since 2013 - Kiva put up some of her fastest DRI runs at the 2015 Champs.



That being said Maureen - and, I agree, I doubt Champs will ever be on turf - there are ALOT of people who love good turf and there are those of us (me, specifically) who drive 6 hours each way to run on the surface in RI - and both of the dogs I currently run have their fastest time in every class on artificial surfaces, so, isn't it great that there are choices.

And,hey Diane, I live I live in PA and I have only one more NADAC trial per year in my state than you have in yours - grin!!

And, let's not forget that NADAC includes all of North America not just the US....

Karen and The Wild Terriers