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General => General Discussion => Topic started by: Chris Nelson on October 21, 2017, 10:57:59 AM

Title: 2018 Info Sheet feedback
Post by: Chris Nelson on October 21, 2017, 10:57:59 AM
Hey Folks,

Before I post the info sheet to the main website, what else would be helpful info to have listed?

I'm mainly trying to cover the main aspects of the event, we'll cover RV and crating info on a different sheet.

Take a look and give me some feedback if you have the time :)

https://www.nadac.com/2018InfoSheet.pdf (https://www.nadac.com/2018InfoSheet.pdf)

Title: Re: 2018 Info Sheet feedback
Post by: Marj Vincent on October 21, 2017, 11:19:57 AM
Maybe you could post the dates/timeline of qualifying points for the 'current year'. 
Title: Re: 2018 Info Sheet feedback
Post by: Marcy Matties on October 21, 2017, 12:11:14 PM
Just a question on the Veteran and Double Digit requirement.  Seems like you answered one person's question about changing the Vet requirement to 9 (instead of 7) to make it more in line with everyday requirements.  But the 10 years for DD in everyday life is 12 isn't it?  Though it isn't actually DD - it's Veteran Skilled ...  Or am I getting confused ...
Title: Re: 2018 Info Sheet feedback
Post by: Sandy Langan on October 21, 2017, 12:26:49 PM
Maybe telling them it is very important that they run in order for the main event as three pines is doing videos of each dog. Pre champs not as important. Sandy
Title: Re: 2018 Info Sheet feedback
Post by: Chris Nelson on October 21, 2017, 12:28:39 PM
Just a question on the Veteran and Double Digit requirement.  Seems like you answered one person's question about changing the Vet requirement to 9 (instead of 7) to make it more in line with everyday requirements.  But the 10 years for DD in everyday life is 12 isn't it?  Though it isn't actually DD - it's Veteran Skilled ...  Or am I getting confused ...

No those are truly two different worlds.

DD is just that, any dog that is in the double digits. 
Title: Re: 2018 Info Sheet feedback
Post by: Chris Nelson on October 21, 2017, 12:29:41 PM
Maybe you could post the dates/timeline of qualifying points for the 'current year'. 

Done
Title: Re: 2018 Info Sheet feedback
Post by: Richard Wolfe on October 21, 2017, 02:04:02 PM
Chris, I think in the Placements section you could just say that "Any Division with 1 to 7 dogs will get placements up to 4th."
And leave out the last sentence.  Which will mean that only this once will you get nailed for saying that 1 to 3 dogs can get a 4th!!!!!!!

Sorry.
Title: Re: 2018 Info Sheet feedback
Post by: Deni on October 21, 2017, 02:41:12 PM
You might specify that Elite Division courses typically have a distance test.   

Denise
Title: Re: 2018 Info Sheet feedback
Post by: Chris Nelson on October 21, 2017, 02:51:28 PM
Chris, I think in the Placements section you could just say that "Any Division with 1 to 7 dogs will get placements up to 4th."
And leave out the last sentence.  Which will mean that only this once will you get nailed for saying that 1 to 3 dogs can get a 4th!!!!!!!

Sorry.


Thanks Richard!   That is a little better use of the English language than my original :)


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Title: Re: 2018 Info Sheet feedback
Post by: Chris Nelson on October 21, 2017, 02:51:44 PM
You might specify that Elite Division courses typically have a distance test.   

Denise


Done!  :)


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Title: Re: 2018 Info Sheet feedback
Post by: RobertStewart on October 21, 2017, 03:03:06 PM
It looks really good Chris!
Title: Re: 2018 Info Sheet feedback
Post by: Ed and Dino on October 21, 2017, 04:04:48 PM
The info sheet is well done.

I don't know if you really need to specify the length of ribbons and size of bowl. What happens if you have a supplier change an the size changes and is shorter, now some one will complain they got shorted. The ribbons I saw this year were quite nice but if they were 2 inches shorter they would mean just the same to the winners, in my opinion.

I will complain about the following:
At least 100 points must have been earned be earned in the current year from the Regular Agility class in Novice, Open or Elite, with the exception that a dog entered in Pre-Elite cannot have earned more than 100 points in Elite Regular in their lifetime up to September 15, 2018. If a dog earns more than 100 points in Elite Regular, then their entry will be switched to the Elite level.

Belle may not have been able to come this year if this had been the case by eliminating Intro. Belle had just left Intro in Fall of 2016. She had obtained one Novice regular Q when the change to Ohio occurred and we realized this would be a doable Champs for us. We went back to Intro Regular to qualify and at the same time jumped from Intro Weavers to Novice Weavers so weaves were still to be done. Once Belle got the 9 or 10 Intro Qs Belle went right back to Novice at the next trial. She may not have made it to Champs if all those Intro runs had had to be Novice.

You've cut off opportunities for the beginning teams. Elite teams can progress from open to Elite and qualify for Elite but an Intro level team that transitions from Intro to Novice between August 2017 to July 2018 may now be cut off from going to Champs in Pre-Elite unless they go too a lot of trials or had started doing Novice as of August 2017.
Title: Re: 2018 Info Sheet feedback
Post by: knittingdog on October 21, 2017, 05:22:39 PM

So my understanding is that it is possible for a dog to be qualified to be in both preElite and Elite - depending on if they have 100 Elite Reg Q's or not.  In other words you could get a combination of 5 Open Reg Qs and 5 Elite Reg Qs along with the Open/Elite Jumpers and Chances qualifications and still choose between preElite and Elite if you don't yet have 100 Elite Reg Q's - am I correct in thinking this?  The handler could choose which division to enter?

Robin & Surge
Title: Re: 2018 Info Sheet feedback
Post by: knittingdog on October 21, 2017, 05:23:14 PM


The info sheet looks really great BTW!

Robin & Surge
Title: Re: 2018 Info Sheet feedback
Post by: ricbonner on October 21, 2017, 05:30:38 PM

You might improve this statement:

"Pre-Elite Qualifications
1. At least 100 points must have been earned be earned in the current year from the Regular
Agility class in Novice, Open or Elite, with the exception that a dog entered in Pre-Elite
cannot have earned more than 100 points in Elite Regular in their lifetime up to September
15, 2018."


And I would suggest stating if a dog is 7 at the start of Champs they "may" enter veteran dog division, if that is the case.
Title: Re: 2018 Info Sheet feedback
Post by: ricbonner on October 21, 2017, 05:38:35 PM
I would also suggest adding something in the scoring section about the overall Champs placement being the total score of all 8 runs.  I have been asked several times if the scores from rounds 1 to 7 are set aside or carry over going into the final round.
Title: Re: 2018 Info Sheet feedback
Post by: rondadillard on October 21, 2017, 05:39:41 PM
Overall comment
Replace the phrase “current year” with “current qualifying year”, and list the start and end dates at the beginning of the info sheet. Don’t want people to think January 1.

Elite Level Qualifications, Item #3
Rephrase the age ranges to be “9 or older” and “10 or older” instead of “over 9” and “over 10”. The way the sentence reads now, I would not enter my 9 year old dog in the Veterans division because he is not “over 9”.

Pre-Elite Qualifications
Replace the specific date listed in item #1 with the phrase “end of the current qualifying year”. This will allow the rest of the document to be duplicated every year by only changing the dates of the current qualifying year listed at the top of the document (as recommended in Overall Comment above).
Title: Re: 2018 Info Sheet feedback
Post by: Chris Nelson on October 21, 2017, 05:50:29 PM
The info sheet is well done.

I don't know if you really need to specify the length of ribbons and size of bowl. What happens if you have a supplier change an the size changes and is shorter, now some one will complain they got shorted. The ribbons I saw this year were quite nice but if they were 2 inches shorter they would mean just the same to the winners, in my opinion.

I will complain about the following:
At least 100 points must have been earned be earned in the current year from the Regular Agility class in Novice, Open or Elite, with the exception that a dog entered in Pre-Elite cannot have earned more than 100 points in Elite Regular in their lifetime up to September 15, 2018. If a dog earns more than 100 points in Elite Regular, then their entry will be switched to the Elite level.

Belle may not have been able to come this year if this had been the case by eliminating Intro. Belle had just left Intro in Fall of 2016. She had obtained one Novice regular Q when the change to Ohio occurred and we realized this would be a doable Champs for us. We went back to Intro Regular to qualify and at the same time jumped from Intro Weavers to Novice Weavers so weaves were still to be done. Once Belle got the 9 or 10 Intro Qs Belle went right back to Novice at the next trial. She may not have made it to Champs if all those Intro runs had had to be Novice.

You've cut off opportunities for the beginning teams. Elite teams can progress from open to Elite and qualify for Elite but an Intro level team that transitions from Intro to Novice between August 2017 to July 2018 may now be cut off from going to Champs in Pre-Elite unless they go too a lot of trials or had started doing Novice as of August 2017.


I agree it would shorten the options for folks.

Maybe with a better layout so folks know what they are getting into we could allow Intro.   I'm not sure.

Title: Re: 2018 Info Sheet feedback
Post by: Chris Nelson on October 21, 2017, 05:51:10 PM

So my understanding is that it is possible for a dog to be qualified to be in both preElite and Elite - depending on if they have 100 Elite Reg Q's or not.  In other words you could get a combination of 5 Open Reg Qs and 5 Elite Reg Qs along with the Open/Elite Jumpers and Chances qualifications and still choose between preElite and Elite if you don't yet have 100 Elite Reg Q's - am I correct in thinking this?  The handler could choose which division to enter?

Robin & Surge


That is correct.

There is a bit of overlap
Title: Re: 2018 Info Sheet feedback
Post by: Chris Nelson on October 21, 2017, 05:51:35 PM

You might improve this statement:

"Pre-Elite Qualifications
1. At least 100 points must have been earned be earned in the current year from the Regular
Agility class in Novice, Open or Elite, with the exception that a dog entered in Pre-Elite
cannot have earned more than 100 points in Elite Regular in their lifetime up to September
15, 2018."


And I would suggest stating if a dog is 7 at the start of Champs they "may" enter veteran dog division, if that is the case.

Thanks Ric!

Done and Done
Title: Re: 2018 Info Sheet feedback
Post by: Chris Nelson on October 21, 2017, 05:53:42 PM
I would also suggest adding something in the scoring section about the overall Champs placement being the total score of all 8 runs.  I have been asked several times if the scores from rounds 1 to 7 are set aside or carry over going into the final round.

Done :)
Title: Re: 2018 Info Sheet feedback
Post by: Chris Nelson on October 21, 2017, 05:55:52 PM
Overall comment
Replace the phrase “current year” with “current qualifying year”, and list the start and end dates at the beginning of the info sheet. Don’t want people to think January 1.

Elite Level Qualifications, Item #3
Rephrase the age ranges to be “9 or older” and “10 or older” instead of “over 9” and “over 10”. The way the sentence reads now, I would not enter my 9 year old dog in the Veterans division because he is not “over 9”.

Pre-Elite Qualifications
Replace the specific date listed in item #1 with the phrase “end of the current qualifying year”. This will allow the rest of the document to be duplicated every year by only changing the dates of the current qualifying year listed at the top of the document (as recommended in Overall Comment above).


Thanks Ronda!

Done and Done :)
Title: Re: 2018 Info Sheet feedback
Post by: Ed and Dino on October 21, 2017, 06:25:45 PM

I agree it would shorten the options for folks.

Maybe with a better layout so folks know what they are getting into we could allow Intro.   I'm not sure.

Chris,

I understand your concerns but if this is changed I suggest changing the Champs info for 2018 on Nadac.com immediately because right now that indicates 2018 is the same as 2017 for Pre-Elite less the hoopers requirement and the way that reads it does allow for Intro regular.
Title: Re: 2018 Info Sheet feedback
Post by: MoabDiane on October 22, 2017, 01:39:03 PM
Qualifying period:  In 2018, Aug. 1 doesn't fall on a weekend.  Nonetheless, I've always thought it, well, interesting that the dates actually overlap by one day.
Suggestion:  August 1, 2017 through July 31, 2017.

I don't know if you want to add anything about a second chance entry being a possibility.  Might relieve someone's stress at the last minute.

Otherwise, looking good!!

diane
Title: Re: 2018 Info Sheet feedback
Post by: BeckyAH on October 22, 2017, 01:48:49 PM


I don't know if you want to add anything about a second chance entry being a possibility.  Might relieve someone's stress at the last minute.

Otherwise, looking good!!

diane

Might also help people be prepared for the possibility and therefore able to go.  I got an offer for a second chance entry this year and had to turn it down.  I had no idea that was a thing, knew I wasn't going to get all the bits to qualify and therefore had neither money nor time off work to make going even a hint of a potential (and had long since disqualified myself from Pre-Elite being possible).   had I know second chance entries existed I would have planned for at least a *maybe*, you know?
Title: Re: 2018 Info Sheet feedback
Post by: Leanne on October 22, 2017, 04:27:28 PM
Did you want to add something about how the height divisions are based on the dogs height at the withers rather than the height of the jumps?
Title: Re: 2018 Info Sheet feedback
Post by: Chris Nelson on October 22, 2017, 04:28:22 PM
Did you want to add something about how the height divisions are based on the dogs height at the withers rather than the height of the jumps?

Yes!

That would be important info to know :)


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Title: Re: 2018 Info Sheet feedback
Post by: Leanne on October 22, 2017, 04:34:54 PM
How about a section that includes all the possible Divisions at Champ and who is qualified to run in each one?

Pre-Elite
Jr Handlers
Elite
Vet
DD
Vet Handlers
Title: Re: 2018 Info Sheet feedback
Post by: Heidi Konesko on October 23, 2017, 08:56:47 AM
Might be good to explain how the running order goes, and changes during the week.  It took me a long time to understand that, but I don't think I could write it!
Title: Re: 2018 Info Sheet feedback
Post by: Audri, Cee Cee, Lily, Toto, and Calypso on October 23, 2017, 12:44:17 PM
You might make note on the qualifying page of NADAC that the requirements are different from 2017 as well.  You have upped all the qualifying requirements by 20 points in all of the events for elite.
Title: Re: 2018 Info Sheet feedback
Post by: Foomin Z on October 23, 2017, 01:48:07 PM
Specify that the scoring is for elite AND pre-elite. Just the placement immediately after the pre-elite section makes it seem like the scoring section could possibly be only pre-elite scoring.

Title: Re: 2018 Info Sheet feedback
Post by: Foomin Z on October 23, 2017, 01:54:12 PM
"At least 40 points must have been earned in the current qualifying year, at the Open or
Elite level, in both Jumpers and Chances. "

This can be taken to mean as 40 points TOTAL from BOTH classes. Is that the intention? So 10 from one and 30 from the other is okay?
Title: Re: 2018 Info Sheet feedback
Post by: MoabDiane on October 23, 2017, 02:42:31 PM
Aside to Chris:  good question and this is what “editing” would help with.
40 points in each?
20 points in each?
40 points total between the two classes!

 ::)
Diane
Title: Re: 2018 Info Sheet feedback
Post by: Linda W. Anderson on October 23, 2017, 03:17:46 PM
Chris - can you link this Info Sheet to the Championships tab under Events?
Linda
Title: Re: 2018 Info Sheet feedback
Post by: Chris Nelson on October 23, 2017, 08:08:43 PM
"At least 40 points must have been earned in the current qualifying year, at the Open or
Elite level, in both Jumpers and Chances. "

This can be taken to mean as 40 points TOTAL from BOTH classes. Is that the intention? So 10 from one and 30 from the other is okay?

Good catch!

Should be fourty points in each class.   I'll make a note for the editor to make that cleaner :)
Title: Re: 2018 Info Sheet feedback
Post by: Chris Nelson on October 23, 2017, 08:08:55 PM
Specify that the scoring is for elite AND pre-elite. Just the placement immediately after the pre-elite section makes it seem like the scoring section could possibly be only pre-elite scoring.



Done :)
Title: Re: 2018 Info Sheet feedback
Post by: Carole & Pat Daggett on October 24, 2017, 08:47:49 PM
In the section under "Distance Tests", it would be helpful to mention the possible faults such as 10 if no attempt is made of the distance test and 5 if handler attempts but has to cross line.

Carole Daggett
Title: Re: 2018 Info Sheet feedback
Post by: Marcy Matties on October 25, 2017, 05:12:15 AM
I'm liking this Info Sheet.  And thinking it could be passed out the first morning briefing and save Chris a lot of talking time!   ;D ;D
Title: Re: 2018 Info Sheet feedback
Post by: Foomin Z on October 25, 2017, 02:08:49 PM
I'm liking this Info Sheet.  And thinking it could be passed out the first morning briefing and save Chris a lot of talking time!   ;D ;D
The more details and rules put into the document definitely means much shorter briefing.
Title: Re: 2018 Info Sheet feedback
Post by: Richard Wolfe on October 25, 2017, 06:02:30 PM
Definitely, shorter briefings are good!!!!   ;D

But more important, IMO, is the pre-event angst that will be prevented if people will read this.  There were lots of panicked questions that could have been avoided had this been available this year.  And while people who answer those questions mean well, sometimes time has faded those memories and the correct info doesn't really get passed on.

And it will free up some time that Chris will need for other duties at a busy time, although he is always very gracious and most helpful about answering questions.
Title: Re: 2018 Info Sheet feedback
Post by: Marsha01 on October 26, 2017, 04:24:14 PM
We are in the process of entering several agility trials coming up the next couple of months.   We are trying to make sure our dogs are qualified for pre-elite next year at champs.    Is it definite that intro regular will not count at this point.  If so, we need to change our registrations.  They already have some novice regulars since August, but want to make sure we have the requirements?   Also, can we change our registration for the Hutchinson, KS fundraiser?   Or when will the requirements be updated?   Thanks Chris for your help as always!