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General => General Discussion => Topic started by: Chris on Mushtown Road on October 05, 2018, 07:12:48 PM

Title: 2020 Champs
Post by: Chris on Mushtown Road on October 05, 2018, 07:12:48 PM
It sounds as though Gillette has been announced for 2020. Is there a date?
Thanks,

Chris
Title: Re: 2020 Champs
Post by: Chris Nelson on October 05, 2018, 07:31:11 PM
It hasn't been announced.   Lots of folks are just making big assumptions :)

It's being talked about.   But contracts still have to be signed, dates have to be agreed on.    Not quite to the announcing stage right now :)
Title: Re: 2020 Champs
Post by: cheyaut on October 06, 2018, 11:14:18 PM
I know of a new event center/arena,  and I'd like to look into it, to see if it could be a possible future location, but I can't find a thread I remember reading that discussed th requirements (such as RV spaces, etc). Any help?
Title: Re: 2020 Champs
Post by: okstitch@cox.net on October 08, 2018, 08:40:46 AM
How about somewhere in the middle of America - like Oklahoma City? A wonderful fairgrounds area.
Title: Re: 2020 Champs
Post by: Amy McGovern on October 08, 2018, 09:09:31 AM
Tulsa has an excellent fairgrounds that AKC uses for their nationals on a regular basis.  I don't believe the OKC ones would satisfy all of Chris's rules.  I've been told that NADAC won't consider middle though :( As someone who would love for it to be in OKC or Tulsa, I'm sad!  But I get the reasoning. 
Title: Re: 2020 Champs
Post by: Lorrie Stelz on October 08, 2018, 04:51:00 PM
I would love for it to be in Tulsa!  Tulsa fairgrounds are amazing!!  Beautiful stall area!  I've competed out there in AKC for a few years and saw 2 AKC Nats there.  Great location!!
Some hotels out there tho are strict with dog limits.  There would probably have to be a host hotel designated, or two, with agreements on increasing pet limits.
Title: Re: 2020 Champs
Post by: John H. Gooldy on October 09, 2018, 05:52:51 AM
Tulsa has an excellent fairgrounds that AKC uses for their nationals on a regular basis.  I don't believe the OKC ones would satisfy all of Chris's rules.  I've been told that NADAC won't consider middle though :( As someone who would love for it to be in OKC or Tulsa, I'm sad!  But I get the reasoning.

Seems like Tulsa would be a great location. St. Louis also has a nice facility at Lake St. Louis. Might be another location to look into. The Midwest seems like a great place to have a large event as Champs. NEC In St. Louis. Amy, what is the reasoning not to go to Tulsa or St. Louis?
Title: Re: 2020 Champs
Post by: Vicki Storrs on October 09, 2018, 06:02:33 AM
Iíll make a guess, John, and say that the more Central US you go, the more people you lose from Both Coasts who arenít able to make the trip. Again, they HAVE to do what they can to maximize entries because Champs is such a costly endeavor. EVERYBODY wants it to be closer/more convenient for THEM (Me included LOL) but if it doesnít  Make financial sense...it doesnít Make sense, for NADAC to do it.
Vicki
Title: Re: 2020 Champs
Post by: Amy McGovern on October 09, 2018, 07:45:52 AM
John I was told precisely what Vicki said.  I wasn't told by anyone in the NADAC HQ or anything, just word of mouth stuff going around at champs when locations came up.  Everyone said that midwest won't happen because they can't get enough entries since the coasts will pull out.  Sad as it makes it harder for us in the midwest to get there but I understand.  Champs is expensive and they have to at least break even so they need good entries!  Maybe Chris can speak to it officially and maybe the midwest can happen someday. :)

-Amy
Title: Re: 2020 Champs
Post by: AndreaEntin on October 09, 2018, 10:28:22 AM
I would to to a southern midwest.

Andrea  :)
Title: Re: 2020 Champs
Post by: Chris Nelson on October 09, 2018, 05:12:40 PM
Pretty much what everyone has echoed here is correct.

I was SERIOUSLY considering the idea of just having a central location, and that is just where Champs is, period.    Then both coasts have to travel and it's 'even'.      But we did a few, I guess you could say control groups of people.   And it wasn't very well received.

For better or worse folks have just gotten used to the format of it switching between east and west each year.    I would much prefer to have it central,  but I'm not sure I want to risk the event's quality for it.

Title: Re: 2020 Champs
Post by: Richard Wolfe on October 09, 2018, 07:06:37 PM
I would have thought it more attractive to do 1100 miles every year than 2200 every other year, but what do I know?
Title: Re: 2020 Champs
Post by: Lorrie Stelz on October 09, 2018, 09:25:20 PM
yeah I guess you could do a survey monkey and put that out there... would people prefer to drive (what Richard said) a distance each year, but be able to attend each year, or only every other year because the opposite year is twice as far.  Doesn't hurt to do a survey and "try" it if a great central location is available.  There are a large number of nadacers in the middle of the country and just off the central location that I think you would get a healthy number of entrants to try it once and see how it is received.
Title: Re: 2020 Champs
Post by: John H. Gooldy on October 10, 2018, 05:31:53 AM
Chris Nelson I understand your concerns. Nobody ever wants to put on a trial and lose money. Champs is a huge event with very large expenses I'm sure and taking a loss is not part of the equation.
Title: Re: 2020 Champs
Post by: Billie Rosen on October 10, 2018, 09:28:23 AM
The current discussion seems to happen every year after Champs.  Yes, we would all love to have Champs close by, but we also need to think about the fact that NADAC is a National venue, with exhibitors in every part of the country.  And this is a big country!!!!  NADAC's requirements for a facility and location make it a challenge to find a site.  If you really want to see Champs close to you, it would help Chris a lot if you check it out in advance to see if it would work (logistically and financially) and if it is available during Champs time.  Just my thoughts.
Title: Re: 2020 Champs
Post by: BeckyAH on October 10, 2018, 12:57:29 PM
I would have thought it more attractive to do 1100 miles every year than 2200 every other year, but what do I know?

The thing you're missing is this:

The people who can travel to champs will.

The people who can't, won't.

It doesn't 'average' over every other year.  A lot of 'west coast' folks can't afford the time off and money involved int he longer trip to go when it's on the east coast - or even the middle/when it's not close to home'.   And same for the east coast folks.

This isn't a thing that, averages.

Or that can, IMO, really be made fair.  The attempt isn't even about 'everyone travels the same' or 'everyone travels a little less'.  It's designed to catch some of those people who only go every other year, when it's close enough that the two years of savings and closer location makes it possible for them to attend at all.   And even that is down to 'as many people as possible', not 'everyone'.  Some people are never going to have the ability - that sucks and isn't 'fair', but it's also the nature of trying to run a business and huge event that needs to pay for itself.

...pretty indicative of agility and trials as a whole, actually.
Title: Re: 2020 Champs
Post by: Richard Wolfe on October 10, 2018, 01:54:28 PM
I didn't miss anything.  I've been to 13 Champs, 12 of them in a row, wherever they were.
It was rhetorical.
Title: Re: 2020 Champs
Post by: Vicki Storrs on October 10, 2018, 05:48:31 PM
I would have thought it more attractive to do 1100 miles every year than 2200 every other year, but what do I know?
can only speak for myself but my option last year and next year is about 450 every other year rather than 1,100 every year and yes, that works better for me, both in time away and expense.
Vicki
Title: Re: 2020 Champs
Post by: Richard Wolfe on October 10, 2018, 06:47:08 PM
The 1100 and 2200 were gross estimates for the coast going either way.
Title: Re: 2020 Champs
Post by: Amy McGovern on October 10, 2018, 07:21:48 PM
I think the idea of a midwest one was to perhaps get in a 3 year rotation.  East/west/central.  We are home from only our 2nd champs ever and it was really hard to be able to take the time away from work.  We had a blast and want to do it again but with a full 2 day drive no matter where it is (east or west), it is hard.  It was 1000 miles to Gillette for us and it will be 900 to Ohio so they are about equal.  If there was a central location, it sure would help a lot of us in the middle and there are a lot of us!  Having originated from the coast, I get that the driving is rather different for shows.  I can't remember ever driving more than 2 hours to a show when we lived in New England and I thought that was long.  Now, unless it is our home club, every other show we attend is 4-6 hours away.
Title: Re: 2020 Champs
Post by: Marj Vincent on October 10, 2018, 09:23:26 PM
So this is how I see it from what folks have said.  The people in the middle of the states seem to have the best advantage as they can travel around 1000 miles (or less) each year and go to either the west or the east coast Champs. Where as many East and West folks still have to travel over 1000 miles to go to their closest Champs but only once every two years.  Sounds to me like the Mid country folks have the best of both Champs. 
Title: Re: 2020 Champs
Post by: Vicki Storrs on October 11, 2018, 02:31:27 PM
I think the idea of a midwest one was to perhaps get in a 3 year rotation.  East/west/central.  We are home from only our 2nd champs ever and it was really hard to be able to take the time away from work.  We had a blast and want to do it again but with a full 2 day drive no matter where it is (east or west), it is hard.  It was 1000 miles to Gillette for us and it will be 900 to Ohio so they are about equal.  If there was a central location, it sure would help a lot of us in the middle and there are a lot of us!  Having originated from the coast, I get that the driving is rather different for shows.  I can't remember ever driving more than 2 hours to a show when we lived in New England and I thought that was long.  Now, unless it is our home club, every other show we attend is 4-6 hours away.

That seems kind of contradictory?  Saying that there are a lot of you but then that you have to travel 4-6 hours for a regular trial. NADAC needs entries for Champs. They have all the ďstatisticsĒ at their fingertips of where the regular trials have big entries (and are held frequently over a broad area) and what the numbers have been at previous Champs. They are going to try to go where they can succeed (so if they can draw from one or more of these kind of areas thatís a big help. I drove from Virginia to Illinois (day and a half) when the Champs were in Springfield, so was thrilled to go to Ohio last year (Easy one day drive). Which, though it was farther east, drew a bigger entry than Illinois, as I recall Chris saying.
We do seem to have these same discussions every year around this time. People want to participate, and thatís great!  They want it convenient, and thatís Completely understandable. But there is no getting around the two BIG constants. NADACís facility requirements (which, as it keeps being repeated every year, is NOT the same as a facility where a regular trial, or even necessarily another organizationís championships, could be held) and the need for entries.
Vicki Storrs
Title: Re: 2020 Champs
Post by: cheyaut on October 11, 2018, 04:23:39 PM
There's a new event center in Montrose, Co (just south of Grand Junction) and I want to look into it, I just don't know what exactly we'd need.

As for the location east west central, for me, Wyoming BARELY worked. Any further, and I wouldn't have been able to go. I don't get to go to the "east" ones. I like that it alternates, I know even number years are possible for me, odd number is too far. I've been to three so far, plan to go to more! (Although my papillon in training is little enough that we can fly, but not my border collie)
Title: Re: 2020 Champs
Post by: Chris Nelson on October 14, 2018, 12:03:21 AM
I think maybe a different approach would be useful here.

If we opened it up to where does everyone want Champs to be, everyone is going to say they want it in XX location, which is probably very close to them.

Trust me I would LOVE for champs to be in Denver.   Then I wouldn't need a hotel and I would have lots of help.

Finding locations is very difficult.  Finding locations and then hoping that the people running those facilities are professional is even harder.    Sunbury is a great example of a facility that would have been very valid for using in the future.   But some issues with the management rules that location out for future use.

If Springfield, Ohio works out nicely it is very very likely that NADAC will go into a revolving contract and switch between Gillette and Springfield for as long as that's valid and we continue to get people entering those events.

So with that said, I think a brainstorming session on HOW to get people to those events is more valid.    Obviously cost is the biggest issue, closely followed by getting time off.    So what can we do to help on that front?     

I had jokingly mentioned renting a bus for the east coast folks this year that would drive straight through to Gillette.   So that would have been about $600 per person.    Purely a joke and not really feasible.    But maybe someone else has a better idea to build on?

I would be slightly open to the idea of discounted entries.    Just a matter of keeping the event above water.    But if we dropped entry fees based on distance traveled I would rather lose some money and have more people entered.      But, I'm not sure even a full $300 would really offset things enough since the real cost in coming to Champs is in the hotel and fuel costs.

So I would suggest going from there and see what we can come up with :)
Title: Re: 2020 Champs
Post by: Linda W. Anderson on October 14, 2018, 05:22:17 AM
If Springfield, Ohio works out nicely it is very very likely that NADAC will go into a revolving contract and switch between Gillette and Springfield for as long as that's valid and we continue to get people entering those events.

So with that said, I think a brainstorming session on HOW to get people to those events is more valid.    Obviously cost is the biggest issue, closely followed by getting time off.    So what can we do to help on that front?     

I had jokingly mentioned renting a bus for the east coast folks this year that would drive straight through to Gillette.   So that would have been about $600 per person.    Purely a joke and not really feasible.    But maybe someone else has a better idea to build on?

I would be slightly open to the idea of discounted entries.    Just a matter of keeping the event above water.    But if we dropped entry fees based on distance traveled I would rather lose some money and have more people entered.      But, I'm not sure even a full $300 would really offset things enough since the real cost in coming to Champs is in the hotel and fuel costs.

So I would suggest going from there and see what we can come up with :)
[/quote]
When I finally get home tomorrow night, I'l'  figure out my fuel cost minus a couple o side trips, but when I drove my "beast" to south Jordan, 2 yrs. ago, my gas alone was $2,500!!  I don't now o any way to reduce that, but have you considered giving a discount to those who would pay for their entries early, make RV reservations/hotel reservations early, etc.?  Could NADAC get in on a corporate fuel card program where each person had their own card and either got a discount or rewards?  Just thinking of some possible ideas.
Linda
Title: Re: 2020 Champs
Post by: dogrsqr on October 14, 2018, 07:13:52 AM
The problem with offering discounts to those who enter early is that some of us have a hard time qualifying early.  In Minnesota we have 4 trials between August 1st and December 31st with one of them outdoors at the end of October which can be pretty dicey weather.  After that our next local trial is mid May.

Title: Re: 2020 Champs
Post by: BeckyAH on October 14, 2018, 02:52:33 PM
I think one thing NADAC could do that would help is just facilitate getting people together to ride and hotel share?  The cost of entries really isn't a factor for me, it's the cost of the hotel and travel.  Being able to share/split those costs would help A LOT .  I know that's more feasible for some locations and some people (based on space and number of dogs/dog personalities) than others, but that's the best thing I can think of to be helpful.  Maybe something on the FB page or just a centralized location to look/ask and do a little light, temporary, traveling and hotel match-making?   Three people to 1 vehicle and hotel room and those costs are cut by 2/3.  That's pretty big.

Title: Re: 2020 Champs
Post by: BeckyAH on October 14, 2018, 02:55:17 PM
And if anyone wants to get really industrious there's always sponsorship for attendance.  That one would be hard to work out, but I know I've donated to 'scholarships' for dog events before, so people who couldn't afford could go.  Years it's local I'd pay for a few nights in a hotel room for someone else - but I'd like to keep it anonymous if I did.  Other people may or may not do the same, but giving the money to NADAC  (maybe having them just buy hotel rooms in the block or some fast food or gas gift cards or whatever) and letting them dole it out quietly would keep it low key.  Though of course you'd have to trust that people who don't need it won't take it.  In my experience they usually don't.
Title: Re: 2020 Champs
Post by: Vicki Storrs on October 14, 2018, 05:13:48 PM

[/quote]
When I finally get home tomorrow night, I'l'  figure out my fuel cost minus a couple o side trips, but when I drove my "beast" to south Jordan, 2 yrs. ago, my gas alone was $2,500!!  I don't now o any way to reduce that, but have you considered giving a discount to those who would pay for their entries early, make RV reservations/hotel reservations early, etc.?  Could NADAC get in on a corporate fuel card program where each person had their own card and either got a discount or rewards?  Just thinking of some possible ideas.
Linda
[/quote]

Holy Cow Linda you are making me rethink our plans for an RV in the next year or two!!  I may need to pick your brain next time I see you :-). I was thinking 10 miles/gal (I know that size, fuel type etc impacts it but thought that was a good figure just for an idea) but for the roughly 4000 miles from VA to South Jordan and back that would be 400 gallons. Donít recall fuel prices in 2016 but donít think they were over $6/gallon, so it must be the mileage is WAY less than 10!  If fuel was $3/gallon that would mean you were getting less than 5 miles/gallon.  Puts a whole Ďnother spin on the RV picture for us!! Guess I better start doing more research....

Vicki Storrs
Title: Re: 2020 Champs
Post by: Amy McGovern on October 14, 2018, 06:37:24 PM
It depends on the RV, the tow vehicle, the speed you drive, and the wind.  Our popup hardly affected our gas mileage at all.  We upgraded to a trailer (not popup!) recently and it is a whole different game for mileage.  It also depends on the truck you have to tow.  We played a bit of competitive game between my husband and myself on the way to champs to see who could get better mileage and the best we did (measured between gas stops) was about 10 mpg but the worst was 6.  Those were the hillier sections and where it was windier.  Without a trailer in tow, he gets about 13-15 around town so it definitely affects it.  I hear from other people (with diesel trucks) that their mileage is affected less.  For us, we can't afford to add a new truck to the deal right now so we are stuck.

Hope that helps your thinking for the RV!  We don't have any class A/B/C experience, only trailers.  Hopefully someone answers for the others too.
Title: Re: 2020 Champs
Post by: Linda W. Anderson on October 15, 2018, 04:07:42 AM

When I finally get home tomorrow night, I'l'  figure out my fuel cost minus a couple o side trips, but when I drove my "beast" to south Jordan, 2 yrs. ago, my gas alone was $2,500!!  I don't now o any way to reduce that, but have you considered giving a discount to those who would pay for their entries early, make RV reservations/hotel reservations early, etc.?  Could NADAC get in on a corporate fuel card program where each person had their own card and either got a discount or rewards?  Just thinking of some possible ideas.
Linda
[/quote]

Holy Cow Linda you are making me rethink our plans for an RV in the next year or two!!  I may need to pick your brain next time I see you :-). I was thinking 10 miles/gal (I know that size, fuel type etc impacts it but thought that was a good figure just for an idea) but for the roughly 4000 miles from VA to South Jordan and back that would be 400 gallons. Donít recall fuel prices in 2016 but donít think they were over $6/gallon, so it must be the mileage is WAY less than 10!  If fuel was $3/gallon that would mean you were getting less than 5 miles/gallon.  Puts a whole Ďnother spin on the RV picture for us!! Guess I better start doing more research....

Vicki Storrs
[/quote]
Just to be clear, I did several extra trips in addition to going to South Jordan, so my milage was probably right around 9 mpg.  Lie Amy says, the hills out west and the wind make a huge difference i you have a high profile RV.   To compensate, I drive a Honda Fit aroun d town and get 34 mpg!
Linda
Title: Re: 2020 Champs
Post by: Vicki Storrs on October 15, 2018, 12:31:19 PM
Thanks both of you!  Our Navy moves had me hauling horses in a 4 horse gooseneck trailer back and forth across the US a couple times with my diesel truck and I didnít think my mileage was that badóclimbing the mountains kinda got evened out a little by the flat states in the middleóbut 5 mpg had me Rethinking the RV plans.
Vicki
Title: Re: 2020 Champs
Post by: bhodges865 on October 17, 2018, 05:24:07 AM
Gas motorhomes are not bought for fuel mileage but convenience.  Where you pay more in fuel, you pay less in overnight lodging and you don't eat out as much.  Towing a small/medium travel trailer/5th wheel is more economical and it gives you that vehicle to get around town when at a campsite.  My motorhome got maybe 9 mpg but last weekend, I got 16 mpg towing my new 25' travel trailer with a F-150 3.5 with ecoboost.
Title: Re: 2020 Champs
Post by: Audri, Cee Cee, Lily, Toto, and Calypso on October 19, 2018, 12:34:04 PM
So for me, in 2017 when I went to Ohio, the total cost without fuel was close to $3000.  I did have 3 dogs entered, so that alone was $900.00, then I did 2 pre-champs runs with 4 dogs for another $96.00.  So for me, the actual cost of running my dogs was $1000.00.  Then add the cost of crating in a stall (no free ones left when I heard about it), hotel was about $700.00 I think but I would have to check that.  I stayed Tuesday through Sunday.  The rest of the money was videos, pictures and raffle tickets.  I had a room with a kitchen so I made my own breakfast and dinner and brought lunch with me. 

I like the idea of ride share or hotel share but I think it isn't always feasible unless you know the person and their dogs.  A 2 room suite would work well, but again, I travel with 4 dogs so it would be difficult.  I looked into a camper last year and it was more than the hotel, so I didn't go forward with it.  I am going to look into it again for next year and see what I can find.  Maybe someone knows of a place that will bring it out and drop it for a rental.