NADAC Forum

General => General Discussion => Topic started by: Chris Nelson on January 14, 2019, 03:12:02 PM

Title: Yearly voting!
Post by: Chris Nelson on January 14, 2019, 03:12:02 PM
Each year we open up certain decisions in NADAC up to the public.   It's that time of the year again, so let your voice be heard!

The three things up for voting and then consideration are:

1) Announcers at Championships

2) Extra points for Regional winners coming to Championships

3) Whether barrels will continue to be used outside of the Barrelers class


You must have a NADAC registration number to fill out the survey.

You can fill it out via this link:

https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/JanVoting2019 (https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/JanVoting2019)
Title: Re: Yearly voting!
Post by: Kyle on January 29, 2019, 08:05:32 AM
Just finally got around to voting and I'm so happy to see that the use of Barrels outside of just Barrelers class has the majority! I love barrels, they are a real NADAC'y type obstacle and helps make our venue unique. Being different is a good thing, IMO. Yay Barrels!!!

-Kyle
Title: Re: Yearly voting!
Post by: Lisa Schmit In The Zone Agility on January 30, 2019, 09:14:33 AM
Totally agree with you Kyle!!  I Love Barrels !!!
Title: Re: Yearly voting!
Post by: BeckyAH on January 30, 2019, 10:59:01 AM
Also agreed - PLUS my dogs love whipping around them! They're fun!
Title: Re: Yearly voting!
Post by: dogrsqr on January 30, 2019, 11:45:23 AM
I will heartily disagree.  Maybe you can just take the win silently and not poke the bear?
Title: Re: Yearly voting!
Post by: Sandy Langan on January 30, 2019, 01:14:53 PM
I don't do well with barrels for my dog. We are getting better but still he didn't start his career on them when young. I think the younger dogs that grew up with them do much better. I would hope that NADAC would be considerate of both ends of this topic and if barrels will still be used in other classes besides barrelers that it would be no more that 50 % of the time . This to me seems a fair thing to do. Just my thoughts thanks Sandy Langan
Title: Re: Yearly voting!
Post by: BeckyAH on January 30, 2019, 02:31:31 PM
I *really* don't think people being happy about a thing that other people aren't happy about is poking a bear.

Maybe it is?  I don't know, but I tend to see it as a case of 'let people be happy about things'.

If it is poking and someone is upset not just that they didn't get the result they wanted but other people are happy, I am SINCERELY sorry for having contributed to that, but still somewhat confused.
Title: Re: Yearly voting!
Post by: KarissaKS on January 30, 2019, 04:18:21 PM
I just have no desire to see barrels behind the line in Chances. For someone coming to NADAC from another organization the barrels are going to be totally foreign. Expecting their dog to do that as part of the distance challenge is a little unfair.

Will the results be shared? Once we have taken the poll we can't get back in to see results.
Title: Re: Yearly voting!
Post by: Kyle on January 30, 2019, 10:21:36 PM
I will heartily disagree.  Maybe you can just take the win silently and not poke the bear?

I wasn't trying to poke any bear, but perhaps think about it this way - there must have been a lot of non-silent opinions against barrels to begin with for NADAC to even consider taking a poll to dump them. Doing a little happy dance because an obstacle that I think of as safe, fast, fun, different and easy to train is going to remain around is probably an OK thing. If you want to do some bear type growly thing - go for it.  ;D

-Kyle
Title: Re: Yearly voting!
Post by: Kyle on January 30, 2019, 10:25:06 PM
I just have no desire to see barrels behind the line in Chances. For someone coming to NADAC from another organization the barrels are going to be totally foreign. Expecting their dog to do that as part of the distance challenge is a little unfair.

Will the results be shared? Once we have taken the poll we can't get back in to see results.

My dog having to learn a teeter or a table or a triple jump or a broad jump or a tire jump wouldn't be foreign too? Maybe that's a little unfair perhaps????

Depends on where you're standing.....

-Kyle
Title: Re: Yearly voting!
Post by: Janice_Shavor on January 31, 2019, 08:02:36 AM
I just remember Rough Collies taking a tightly turned 10' tunnel vs going around a barrel and for that reason really like barrels.  If you look at some of the twisty, turning other venue courses and just plop a barrel by the jump, you have a way to train for the "go past the jump, turn, and take the jump" moves.  So, some other venue folks already have barrel skills.
Title: Re: Yearly voting!
Post by: KarissaKS on January 31, 2019, 09:25:41 AM
My dog having to learn a teeter or a table or a triple jump or a broad jump or a tire jump wouldn't be foreign too? Maybe that's a little unfair perhaps????

Depends on where you're standing.....

-Kyle

Literally anyone can get their dog around a barrel when handled up close. Not even comparable to the training it takes to do something like a teeter. That's why I don't care if they are in other classes, but I don't want to see them in Chances as part of a distance test (and I've been competing in NADAC for over a decade).
Title: Re: Yearly voting!
Post by: AgilityJeff on February 04, 2019, 05:01:15 PM
Thanks for the post Kyle - I voted early (and while growing up in Chicago taught me to vote "early & often", I only voted once at the start) so I had no idea how the vote was going later in the month.  I believe you are spot on that the barrels are a very "NADAC" piece of equipment, they sure beat scrunched up tunnels or wraps around a single PVC pipe, and hope they end up surviving and thriving on our courses!
Title: Re: Yearly voting!
Post by: Sheila & the Shelties on February 04, 2019, 10:05:01 PM
My dog having to learn a teeter or a table or a triple jump or a broad jump or a tire jump wouldn't be foreign too? Maybe that's a little unfair perhaps????

Depends on where you're standing.....

-Kyle

Literally anyone can get their dog around a barrel when handled up close. Not even comparable to the training it takes to do something like a teeter. That's why I don't care if they are in other classes, but I don't want to see them in Chances as part of a distance test (and I've been competing in NADAC for over a decade).

If you want to be in , say AKC, you have to train your dog in the teeter, etc.  I think Kyle is saying that if you want to participate in NADAC, you have to train items like the barrel.
Title: Re: Yearly voting!
Post by: Kyle on February 05, 2019, 08:16:19 AM
My dog having to learn a teeter or a table or a triple jump or a broad jump or a tire jump wouldn't be foreign too? Maybe that's a little unfair perhaps????

Depends on where you're standing.....

-Kyle

Literally anyone can get their dog around a barrel when handled up close. Not even comparable to the training it takes to do something like a teeter. That's why I don't care if they are in other classes, but I don't want to see them in Chances as part of a distance test (and I've been competing in NADAC for over a decade).

If you want to be in , say AKC, you have to train your dog in the teeter, etc.  I think Kyle is saying that if you want to participate in NADAC, you have to train items like the barrel.

Thank you, Sheila, for clarifying - you are correct, I was trying to say that if we play in NADAC we need to train for a barrel. Exactly the same as if we play in other venues we'd have to/want to train for the obstacles not included in NADAC. Vive la difference! ;D

I am always interested to hear folks like Karissa mention things like not wanting to teach a barrel from a distance. Many clicker trainers and trick trainers like to use a cone or a bucket (or whatever is lying around) as something for a baby puppy to go out and around when they are little. This is just an extension of that puppy learning experience to me.

Now, (someone PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong) I understand the dog will always be taking a path to the outside of barrel, so that makes it even easier. (This will not always be true for Bonus people depending on the Bonus area.)

Yes, Karissa, training a teeter is a bazillion times harder! I agree. What can we, in the NADAC Community, do to help you train your dog to do a barrel at a distance and be confident about it? I'm sure many of us have tips and ideas to help - tell us what you need and we'll do our best to be there for you!

-Kyle
Title: Re: Yearly voting!
Post by: David Tharle on February 05, 2019, 08:59:01 AM
Quote
Now, (someone PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong) I understand the dog will always be taking a path to the outside of barrel,

Kyle

Not sure if there is a rule/directive specific to Chances course design where this might be so, but we presently see other Classes where the dog is asked to pass on the inside or come inside to circle 270 - 360 (Still finding that easier to teach than the teeter).
Title: Re: Yearly voting!
Post by: Kyle on February 05, 2019, 10:08:58 AM
Dave,

I know we had the path come to the inside all this time but, I remember hearing somewhere that has changed and wouldn't be seen again.....???? I'll send a note to Chris and Amanda asking them. I'd just kinda like to know for myself if nothing else.  ;D And, yup, I agree, a barrel is a ton easier to teach than a teeter to get a safe performance!

Thanks,
Kyle
Title: Re: Yearly voting!
Post by: Chris Nelson on February 05, 2019, 10:43:45 AM
Ideally we don't want to see maneuvers on a barrel that require a 'come, switch' command.    It just doesn't work well in the real world, and even the advanced dogs who have been raised on barrels don't handle it well enough for us to want to see it.   They can do it, but it's not what it should be for a dog who was raised with that obstacle and should be proficient with it.

Now, that isn't to say you'll never see it.   Sometimes a course designer gets stuck and you don't want to redesign an entire course.  So it happens.   But we don't want to see anyone intentionally putting that sequence on courses.
Title: Re: Yearly voting!
Post by: Marcy Matties on February 05, 2019, 11:13:27 AM
Ideally we don't want to see maneuvers on a barrel that require a 'come, switch' command.    It just doesn't work well in the real world, and even the advanced dogs who have been raised on barrels don't handle it well enough for us to want to see it.   They can do it, but it's not what it should be for a dog who was raised with that obstacle and should be proficient with it.

Now, that isn't to say you'll never see it.   Sometimes a course designer gets stuck and you don't want to redesign an entire course.  So it happens.   But we don't want to see anyone intentionally putting that sequence on courses.

Two observations - and correct me if I'm wrong on the first one - but you can and will see this in a Barrelers course - just not so much in the others.

And secondly, it sometimes just depends on how the human handles the sequences before the barrel.  I have often seen where most handlers setup their cues so the dog is going out and around, but another handler who has different strengths and weaknesses will handle it the other way around.  So on paper it might be "intended" to be just an out around, but a human has decided to run it as a come/switch.
Title: Re: Yearly voting!
Post by: Chris Nelson on February 05, 2019, 11:49:13 AM
Ideally we don't want to see maneuvers on a barrel that require a 'come, switch' command.    It just doesn't work well in the real world, and even the advanced dogs who have been raised on barrels don't handle it well enough for us to want to see it.   They can do it, but it's not what it should be for a dog who was raised with that obstacle and should be proficient with it.

Now, that isn't to say you'll never see it.   Sometimes a course designer gets stuck and you don't want to redesign an entire course.  So it happens.   But we don't want to see anyone intentionally putting that sequence on courses.

Two observations - and correct me if I'm wrong on the first one - but you can and will see this in a Barrelers course - just not so much in the others.

And secondly, it sometimes just depends on how the human handles the sequences before the barrel.  I have often seen where most handlers setup their cues so the dog is going out and around, but another handler who has different strengths and weaknesses will handle it the other way around.  So on paper it might be "intended" to be just an out around, but a human has decided to run it as a come/switch.


Correct on both counts.

With barrelers being a specials skills class, and that skill being the ability to go around a barrel, you might see it more often there.

And yeah there is usually a intended handler and dog path with most judges, but some people just want to watch the world burn and do crazy things haha


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Title: Re: Yearly voting!
Post by: Sheila & the Shelties on February 05, 2019, 10:47:19 PM


...but some people just want to watch the world burn and do crazy things haha


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Yowzer!!
Title: Re: Yearly voting!
Post by: BeckyAH on February 06, 2019, 05:51:18 AM

 some people just want to watch the world burn and do crazy things haha


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I occasionally resemble this remark.
Title: Re: Yearly voting!
Post by: Kyle on February 06, 2019, 07:16:42 AM
but some people just want to watch the world burn and do crazy things haha


Dude! I know that sometimes its hard to find words to describe Bonus people but, puuuleeeese.......

HAHAHAHAHA!!!  ;) ;) ;)

-Kyle