NADAC Forum

General => General Discussion => Topic started by: Chris Nelson on June 23, 2020, 09:22:48 AM

Title: Championships poll regarding Masks and event cancellation
Post by: Chris Nelson on June 23, 2020, 09:22:48 AM
Hey all,

We're trying to get a better idea of what we want to do for Championships this year.

If you have time to fill out a quick two question poll it would be greatly appreciated!

https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/3MWQ9CF (https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/3MWQ9CF)
Title: Re: Championships poll regarding Masks and event cancellation
Post by: Marcy Matties on June 23, 2020, 09:27:14 AM
Thanks Chris.  I do think there needs to be a third option for Question 2 - an "undecided" option.  With things changing at such a rapid rate - both in a positive and then a negative direction, I just don't know at this time what my answer is to that question.  So I didn't answer it - that means I'm undecided/conflicted. 😟
Title: Re: Championships poll regarding Masks and event cancellation
Post by: Patty LeRoy on June 23, 2020, 09:35:36 AM
Also, it isn't just whether masks are mandatory or not making the decision on whether I will attend or not.....more likely, won't be allowed across the border for us Canadians.
Title: Re: Championships poll regarding Masks and event cancellation
Post by: Lorrie Stelz on June 23, 2020, 03:14:44 PM
Hoping all goes forward!  😊👍🏻💜🚗
Title: Re: Championships poll regarding Masks and event cancellation
Post by: Salli Dulco on June 25, 2020, 02:31:05 AM
Sorry Chris..
i just canít bring myself to complete this poll with 2 questions. I think it is limiting with regards to many issues surrounding the entire COVID19 issue.
I am also one who truly loves to go to champs because I love to play this game with my dogs and I love to see the people I have met over the years. What I wouldnít want is to come to an event where the environment is a mixed bag of emotions by the participants that would cause the environment to be heavy.

Let me ask you, what other aspects of champs are under consideration for ďnot happeningĒ because of the potential spread of COVID19 by folks who are positive and are asymptomatic?  Will there be a raffle?  Will there be a food vendor?  Will someone (or people) be following everyone to clean doors and bathrooms and everything else that everyone is touching? Will there be other vendors?

I think these are fair things to address and answer because you can spread this virus to people AND be wearing masks. For those who want more than anything to have champs occur, if there are things that are important aspects for their champs experience, then I feel it is important that we are told what is going to occur and not going to occur. It is really not a fair question to ask when we donít know what is being planned and how NADAC is going to address some of the other health safety concerns outside of wearing a mask.

Crating out of a car parked by the facility is fine if one has a vehicle with them, if the weather is not hot, or snowing, and if it is secure. Crating out of your rv is fine for those with an rv or trailer AND have the ability to watch the event, including the ability for NADAC to effectively communicate the status of getting teams to the line. Effective meaning that people who are not crating inside know when it is time  to lineup for their run.

Sorry that I am ranting, I just want to make sure I am making the right decision about champs and a2 question poll was not feeling good. Yes I want champs to occur. No, I donít want to have to sit in my crating area indoors with a mask over my face while I am sitting there reading, napping, or talking to my husband. And, I donít want people to lecture me about the entire mask ordeal.

Is there any way you can postpone this champs until the late Spring/earlySummer of 2021? Even consider a different location if Gillette is not possible?  Time to allow some of the dust to settle, the virus to die down, participants who want to come to champs and canít for their individual reasons due to COVID19.   I donít ask this question lightly because I realize the planning that goes into an event like this. I ask this because many people may have a dog that this would have been their first or last champs. NADAC has a huge supportive network of people that can assist and be creative if this would be taken under consideration. I personally think anything is possible when people want something to happen.

Thank you for your time,
Salli Dulco
Title: Re: Championships poll regarding Masks and event cancellation
Post by: dogrsqr on June 25, 2020, 10:01:40 AM
We also had a hard time answering question 2 because there are so many things that could happen between now and then. We haven't even been to a trial yet so don't really have any way to gauge our comfort level. 

We attend lots of outdoor trials so are fully prepared to crate out of our vehicle as well as our travel trailer.  Being from Minnesota we are comfortable crating out of our vehicle in any weather that might happen in WY.  We have aluminet, fans, propane heaters, a screen tent with drop sides etc. 

As far as knowing when a team is up, one of our local flyball tournaments uses flyballgeek.com which shows what race is in/on deck/ and in the hole.  Maybe something like that could be used so that if outside, in the RV etc.  you can pull it up on your phone and know where you are.  The full running order would still be available as in the past.
 
I would feel comfortable crating outside under cover with the other folks from my own area.  Just a little iffy weather wise.  Could be awesome fall weather or could snow again. 

Gina Pizzo
Title: Re: Championships poll regarding Masks and event cancellation
Post by: Nancymmssmith on June 25, 2020, 02:29:15 PM
Flyballgeek worked great for scent work trials as well.  Good idea.
Title: Re: Championships poll regarding Masks and event cancellation
Post by: Cheryl Gilbert on June 25, 2020, 02:53:16 PM
i answered the poll but have a lot of ambivalence about the whole situation.  I also am unlikely to attend regardless because none of my dogs are really ready to participate at this time.  This has nothing to do with covid and everything to do with aging dogs, reactive dogs and newly rescued dogs.  i also MAY have a small puppy at that time which would be another negative for me.  Sorry...
Title: Re: Championships poll regarding Masks and event cancellation
Post by: Karen Birdsong on June 26, 2020, 05:59:58 PM
      As many of us know, there is a lot more to going to Champs, than Champs itself.  There are a number of things outside of NADACís responsibility but factor into an exhibitorís decision about going.
     I have no doubt that NADACís staff and volunteers will host the safest event possible and will make it as fun as possible under today's conditions.  We know the social aspects of Champs will be very different.  Sitting 6 ft apart in the stands or out in the kenneling area may not produce the same warm group feeling as in the past.  We know it can get noisy in the arena, so we canít be yelling across social spacing as itís not fair to the team on course.  This post is not about these things. 

    What I wanted to mention are some of the issues people will be reviewing as they make their decision about Champs 2020.  What stands out to me are the differences between the RVíers and the ďMotelíersĒ.  The RVíers, those who will travel and stay in RVís, will be able maintain many of the Covid-19 self-containment guidelines.  They have control of their bed, food service, bathroom and kenneling area while on the road and in Gillette. These folks can slip away to their RVs, take their masks off, put up their feet and let their dogs lose.  Itís different for the motelíers.   

Those staying in motels have to rely heavily on the outside world.  They largely have to rely on restaurants, motels and public restrooms.  Example - Finding a public restroom in my area, at this time, is a challenge.  I live in a city with lots and lots of businesses, but many places have locked their restrooms.  This includes gas stations and fast food places.  As of this post, I don't believe all states have opened their hotel lodging up for personal travel.

    I know my perception of things is influenced by the fact I live in Southern California, an area heavily hit with the virus.  For most of us in this area its 3 days to Champs and 3 days back.  Taking that on when you have no ideas what services you will find open and the condition of those places can be daunting.  Traveling 1200-1300 miles not knowing where youíll find the next open bathroom can be a bit stressful.  Wonder if I can pull up an antelope and squat beside it? Ö. StopÖstopÖdonít picture a 70 yr old woman doing that beside the road.  I said to stop picturing that.  LOL
    Once in Gillette many of those issues continue, like where to seek meals. Personally I only go to places I felt had high sanitation standards before the pandemic started.  When you are in a strange community, it a bit like shooting craps. The hotel in Gillette two years ago was super crowded, elevator almost always packed.  I can see the stairwells packed this year.
       
Donít get me wrong, I think it is wonderful that so many have RVs and Iím always glad to see folks enjoying them.  Not trying to start anything, just mentioning some of the differences that will shape folks decision about this yearís Champs. 

Chris, Amanda, Jimmy and all the others Champ coordinators, please don't take anyone's vote to cancel 2020 Champs as a lack of confidence in you. We have 100% confidence in you, it's the rest of the world that has some of us worried.

OK enough, give your fur kids a hug and go play with them.
Title: Re: Championships poll regarding Masks and event cancellation
Post by: Jean Sather (McCreight) on June 27, 2020, 08:18:34 AM
Good points all, Karen.  I'm sure there are as many different opinions about this as there are people who might be thinking about attending, depending on your own local situation and experiences, personal risk factors, travel and lodging options, etc.  Not an easy decision for many of us.

P.S. Karen, if you do come to Wyoming, you'd have better luck with a sagebrush than trying to get an antelope to stand still .....  :)
Title: Re: Championships poll regarding Masks and event cancellation
Post by: Savannah on June 27, 2020, 02:15:07 PM
If the event is held, I think this year's 'Champs' should be considered just another 4 day agility trial. There are no entry requirements for dogs, and older handlers and those with underlying conditions  are at a life threatening disadvantage if they do attend. This does not seem in any way like a Championship event.

I agree with all the other comments about there being too many variables to adequately address the issues raised in a 2 question yes or no survey. Having a large number of people from many different parts of the country come together for an extended period of time over several days - and then having them all go home and interact with more people seems a bit irresponsible to me. I think a safer approach would be to keep having local/regional trials that draw people from smaller, similar areas of virus intensity. With a group of more homogeneous attendees, the trial rules can be relaxed or tightened as need be to keep everyone safe until adequate treatments and vaccines become available.

My dogs and I remain committed to NADAC and look forward to coming back strong next year.
Title: Re: Championships poll regarding Masks and event cancellation
Post by: arne on June 27, 2020, 09:29:58 PM
There have been some really valid concerns raised about having Champs this year.  I can definitely understand why some would chose not to go.  For me, unless things get appreciably worse,  I would really like Champs to happen. I think it can be done safely and without sacrificing most of what makes Champs fun. We do outdoor trials all of the time. There is no indoor crating for them and weather can happen at any one of those events.  Even if no one crates indoors, it does not have to be crating out of your vehicle although that can be the default if the weather gets bad. You can still crate outside in your groups but with a little more distance between you.  If Champs happens I will absolutely view it as a true Championship event. The qualifying criteria will have no impact on the excitement I will feel. As things stand today, I think Champs should be held.

Arne Lindberg
Title: Re: Championships poll regarding Masks and event cancellation
Post by: Edraith on June 28, 2020, 10:07:10 AM
I think its important to consider data https://covid19.healthdata.org/ has good graphs of what has happened vs various predicition models.

Keep in mind that about half the states are seeing huge spikes as stay at homes are lifted. For example from Alabama, almost every day now we hit a new record for infections and deaths. Virus mobility is almost back to baseline levels in most states, equal to where we started in March.

This is not getting better. This is getting worse. And many states refuse to re-shut-down due to public outcry. And, the US simply doesnt have good support systems for people to be out of work (thats evil socialism! Oh no!) so i get where workers are coming from but the fact remains this isnt safe. None this is. We should never have to risk our lives so we can make money to stay alive. Thats not great; i dont care your politics - that sort of thinking kills people. As we are sadly seeing.

From a rescuerís standpoint this is horrible and the sad fact is if one us gets it we probably all get it. We canceled all our rescue classes (The only way we get income as we are not govt supported, most -over 80% - of rescue squads and fire departments in the US are all volunteer; something very few people realise.) Anyway the classes are far smaller than a champs But because they have people congregating from many areas...The last thing you want is for your event to be a new hotspot. If that hotspot happens youll kill nadac agility for a good while.

I dont have a dog in this (ha!) since we dont run at champ level. But perhaps that also means i can look at it from less emotional connection to the event; my emotions are more tied with the first and last responder communities. I have friends where their literal job is picking up the dead (last responder) and until they relax I wont be relaxed. The sad fact is the US is not set to handle this number of dead either. Covid deaths must be cremated and there just arent that many furnaces.

Not easy stuff to think about I know. Morbid, even. But thats the realities. Thats what we are fighting against so people can get their haircuts, manicures, and play agility.
Title: Re: Championships poll regarding Masks and event cancellation
Post by: ricbonner on June 28, 2020, 11:24:37 PM
I feel the need to say that if 2020 Champs is held then any dog that competes should be afforded the same respect and honor as any other year.  Every year there are teams that are not able to make it for one reason or another.  Every year the degree of competition, and ultimately each champion, is partly determined by outside circumstances.  This year, there may be a number of teams that make the choice not to attend.  I ask that everyone be cautious of any sentiments or language that implies that a victory in 2020 would somehow be "less" or in some way not equal to a victory in any other year.  That type of thinking strikes me as extremely inconsiderate and disrespectful.  The last couple years, NADAC Champs has been huge.  This year, if it is held, it will most likely be smaller than the last couple years.  That should not should diminish the achievements of any dogs that do attend.
Title: Re: Championships poll regarding Masks and event cancellation
Post by: arne on June 29, 2020, 08:11:18 AM
I agree 100% Ric!

"I feel the need to say that if 2020 Champs is held then any dog that competes should be afforded the same respect and honor as any other year.  Every year there are teams that are not able to make it for one reason or another.  Every year the degree of competition, and ultimately each champion, is partly determined by outside circumstances.  This year, there may be a number of teams that make the choice not to attend.  I ask that everyone be cautious of any sentiments or language that implies that a victory in 2020 would somehow be "less" or in some way not equal to a victory in any other year.  That type of thinking strikes me as extremely inconsiderate and disrespectful.  The last couple years, NADAC Champs has been huge.  This year, if it is held, it will most likely be smaller than the last couple years.  That should not should diminish the achievements of any dogs that do attend."
Title: Re: Championships poll regarding Masks and event cancellation
Post by: dogrsqr on June 29, 2020, 09:20:31 AM
Yes thanks Ric.  I was trying to figure out how to respond, but you did it well.

In addition if Champs are held it would be great if those coming could be extra diligent about distancing at home a couple of weeks prior.

We are lucky to be retired and are staying away from restaurants and large social gathering places.  We are socializing with small groups, outside, where distancing is easy. 

I would like to come to Champs if things aren't really bad at that time. 

Gina Pizzo
Title: Re: Championships poll regarding Masks and event cancellation
Post by: Jen Bailey on June 30, 2020, 07:42:09 AM
I've answered the survey and I hope the numbers in WY and surrounding states remain low enough that we are able to have champs this year.  I am OK with not crating in the crating building, requiring masks, lots of sanitizer, hand washing stations, etc. If we have champs this year it will be my first time attending and likely my oldest dog's last since she's 11 and she'll already miss other goals I had hoped for thanks to Covid. So, selfishly I really hope we are able to move forward.  If things are shut down again and it's canceled because the venue can't host well there's not that much we can do about that.

Jen
Title: Re: Championships poll regarding Masks and event cancellation
Post by: agilityaddict2 on June 30, 2020, 12:39:27 PM
A bit off topic but important info.... Edraith, you posted that Covid deaths have to be cremated. That is absolutely false. Perphaps it is true in your area but nationwide that is not true.
Title: Re: Championships poll regarding Masks and event cancellation
Post by: Audri, Cee Cee, Lily, Toto, and Calypso on June 30, 2020, 01:33:04 PM
I think its important to consider data https://covid19.healthdata.org/ has good graphs of what has happened vs various predicition models.

Keep in mind that about half the states are seeing huge spikes as stay at homes are lifted. For example from Alabama, almost every day now we hit a new record for infections and deaths. Virus mobility is almost back to baseline levels in most states, equal to where we started in March.

This is not getting better. This is getting worse. And many states refuse to re-shut-down due to public outcry. And, the US simply doesnt have good support systems for people to be out of work (thats evil socialism! Oh no!) so i get where workers are coming from but the fact remains this isnt safe. None this is. We should never have to risk our lives so we can make money to stay alive. Thats not great; i dont care your politics - that sort of thinking kills people. As we are sadly seeing.

From a rescuerís standpoint this is horrible and the sad fact is if one us gets it we probably all get it. We canceled all our rescue classes (The only way we get income as we are not govt supported, most -over 80% - of rescue squads and fire departments in the US are all volunteer; something very few people realise.) Anyway the classes are far smaller than a champs But because they have people congregating from many areas...The last thing you want is for your event to be a new hotspot. If that hotspot happens youll kill nadac agility for a good while.

I dont have a dog in this (ha!) since we dont run at champ level. But perhaps that also means i can look at it from less emotional connection to the event; my emotions are more tied with the first and last responder communities. I have friends where their literal job is picking up the dead (last responder) and until they relax I wont be relaxed. The sad fact is the US is not set to handle this number of dead either. Covid deaths must be cremated and there just arent that many furnaces.

Not easy stuff to think about I know. Morbid, even. But thats the realities. Thats what we are fighting against so people can get their haircuts, manicures, and play agility.

As the stay at home order is lifted, the virus WILL get worse.  The whole stay at home was to flatten the curve, not eradicate the virus.  The virus is out there and it is not going away.  A vaccine is more than 2 years away and given the past attempts with corona vaccines, it could be further since often times, the vaccine made things worse for a large number of people.  And as people venture out, they are going to come in contact with it and may even contract the virus.  The good news is, research has shown that people are not getting as sick with it and are recovering more quickly, most without even needing hospitalization.  That isn't to say people are not still dying from it, so it is a personal choice of what you do.  If you are not comfortable with it, then don't go, but I for one, if I had the ability to go, would absolutely be going. 

The fact is that more than 70% of the deaths in Illinois at least, were in people over the age of 70 and of those 70% more than 85% were people in nursing homes where people already have medical issues.  70% of the cases and deaths in Illinois were also in Chicago and Cook County.  The rest was spread out amongst the remainder of the state.  Illinois death rate per capita is only .04%.  I hardly consider that alarming.....
Title: Re: Championships poll regarding Masks and event cancellation
Post by: BarbMeyer on June 30, 2020, 04:31:48 PM
I generally try to stay out of these discussions but I start to twitch when I read statements like "it is a personal choice of what you do". In the midst of a viral pandemic you are not just making a choice for yourself to attend a gathering. You are making a choice for everyone who will have contact with you. Your friends and relatives, their friends and relatives, etc.  You are making a choice for the "essential workers" like grocery store clerks and their friends and relatives and the friends and relatives of those people. Also, you are making a choice for the overworked healthcare professionals who will have to care for you and the others that you infect.

I sincerely hope that everyone is giving serious thought to what might happen to their dogs, critters and other dependents if they should become seriously ill with Covid-19. Chances are that if you are ill, others in your household will be as well. It seems to me to be unreasonable and also unethical to ask others to come into your virus infected home to care for your dogs.

At the end of April of this year, I lost an aunt who I had been close to as a child to Covid-19. Yes, she was nearly ninety, and yes she was in a nursing home in (of all god-forsaken places) Brooklyn NY. Up until becoming ill with the virus, she was mentally as sharp as a tack and she didn't need to die alone without her family able to be there. Please do not write off the elderly or those with medical issues as not worthy of consideration.

Barb Meyer
Title: Re: Championships poll regarding Masks and event cancellation
Post by: Becky Woodruff on June 30, 2020, 06:27:39 PM
Like Barb, any more I try to stay out of these discussions, however, since *I* am looking at the big 7-0 AND I live in close proximity to someone who is immune suppressed and therefore high risk, I take exception to the statement made below:
"The fact is that more than 70% of the deaths in Illinois at least, were in people over the age of 70 and of those 70% more than 85% were people in nursing homes where people already have medical issues.  70% of the cases and deaths in Illinois were also in Chicago and Cook County.  The rest was spread out amongst the remainder of the state.  Illinois death rate per capita is only .04%.  I hardly consider that alarming.....:"

You may not find it alarming, but those who have lost loved ones or have friends and family at risk most likely do.
Becky Woodruff
Title: Re: Championships poll regarding Masks and event cancellation
Post by: runningmadly on July 01, 2020, 06:35:33 AM
We also take exception to comments about the elderly and those in nursing homes.  Regardless of age or location, these deaths are a tragedy to their loved ones.  In addition, as seen in Florida, younger people are contracting COVID in greater numbers. Yes, they may not get as sick but they are very capable of spreading it to their older family members and there are still so many unknowns about this infection in terms of long term effects.

We are all hoping that championships are able to happen and as has been said, if they do happen, we know that NADAC will do everything they can to make them safe.   We are sure that the NADAC team are weighing all factors in making this decision.

Tom & Pat Moloney-Harmon
Title: Re: Championships poll regarding Masks and event cancellation
Post by: LeeAnne McAdam on July 01, 2020, 08:04:40 AM
It is frightening to me when we pick out any segment of our population and decide that their lives are less important or not to be concerned about because of whatever quality puts them in that group.  Nothing is ever completely safe, and I know Chris and the rest of the NADAC group will do everything possible to keep people as safe as can be, but no matter the percentage of deaths from COVID-19, if it's you, someone in your family, or someone you care about, that percentage becomes pretty meaningless. 

I hope Champs gets to happen and I hope everyone who goes has the time of their lives, but it doesn't seem right to dismiss the risk because it's mostly only (insert group) that are dying.