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General Discussion / Re: New rule changes
« Last post by Sheila & the Shelties on Today at 06:56:40 PM »
I've taught all my dog
s a solid start line stay, but that's because I want to have a lead out and get into the position I want because I am not a fast runner. But I have no problem with somebody that wants to drop their dog and run, but be aware that when you're older you may wish you had that start Line Stay. ;D. I have no problem with people mean taking a step back to get their dogs attention or to tell them to sit or whatever they want to do. I'm dealing with one of my dogs that has become deaf, and today I had to step back to make sure she understood I wanted her to stay. As long as they're not wasting time or spending a lot of time with the issue, and that is a judge's call, so I don't think it should be a problem. I don't have any issue with bringing a dog around at the last obstacle. I remember when I started I thought it was strange that you could not do that when you could do it with any other obstacle. The only issue I see here is people who have not taught their dog a start line stay, but all of a sudden decide at a trial they want to enforce a stay and taking up a lot of time to make their dog stay.
General Discussion / Re: Possible VT solutions
« Last post by Sheila & the Shelties on Today at 06:35:02 PM »
Karissa, I wasn't saying you competed in a venue because most of your friends were there. I was simply speculating on a reason why your student decided to do a AKC instead of NADAC. It does seem rather strange to me with the conditions you describe, unless she doesn't feel confident and is happier only doing one or two runs a day.  And I agree if you only do Nate at, you can't address why other people aren't. But I have talked to people from other venues, and people from other venues attend our trials, so I think I can repeat what they may have said.

As for my instructor pushing NADAC, I can honestly say she did not do that. She taught only NADAC, but also the trials held in the area we're mostly NADAC. There was maybe one USDAA trial & one AKC a year, and no CPE at all. So even if I was interested another venue, it wouldn't have made sense for me when there were eight or nine NADAC trials within the local area, and others within 3 to 4 hours. And I like NADAC's concern with safety and them am comfortable with it. That is why I'm surprised that some people knock NADAC when there's a lot of Trials here. Once people develop an idea or prejudice, it's often hard to change them.
General Discussion / Re: VT Voting Results
« Last post by Roger Coor on Today at 09:45:11 AM »
Thanks Chris,
  I think the revision of VTs is something everyone can live with.  Personally I would not mind at all if in the submission it did ask for one or two names and email addresses of people who were present witnessed what happened and actively participated in NADAC.
What is Before the Startline?   

This is a class I am very excited to be offering, it is 2 years in the making!  This class along with Beyond the Startline (That i will be offering in February) cover all of my foundation games and exercises that I teach my dogs (young and old!) for confidence in agility! And these games and skills can be used for lots of different dog sports.   I will be teaching these games and more!

Location Specific Reward Markers (this is very cool stuff!!) :-D
Bed Games
Middle or “Spot” games
Cup Games
Moving Waits
Hand Targeting
And more!

These games will help teach dogs impulse control, confidence boosting, thinking, engagement, focus, and these will all be games I will transition to the competition ring.

I still have some working spots available in this class and we get started tomorrow! Please email me with any questions, I can’t tell you how excited I am to be working with everyone in this class!

Amanda Nelson

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
General Discussion / Re: Possible VT solutions
« Last post by RobertStewart on December 14, 2017, 05:27:51 PM »
Those of us who multi venue, have seen the decline in attendance in all of the venues. Even though Texas is quite large, There are now so many trials, there are many to choose from on any given weekend. It's honestly over all, a good problem to have.  for many years local clubs did their best not to do trials on the weekends of other venues. Now, on Thanksgiving weekend, there a USDAA South of Austin, a NADAC in Waco, and AKC in Houston and an AKC in Belton, all within 100 miles or so of each other. Sometimes, it's a matter of which is the most convenient.

My students, are generally single venue people. That seems to be more the trend these days.  Many only do NADAC, some only do AKC, and some only do USDAA, and 1 pretty much does only CPE.  So, I believe that takes away from all venues a bit.  I remember when I've missed being able to attend a NADAC trial because I didn't get an entry in soon enough. Now, we have day of trial entries to hopefully fill in. The same with AKC, now, if trials fill it's a very rare thing.
Which is "nice as a competitor" but not so nice as someone who trial chairs for my club.

I hope the VT's stay around for some time to come. I am excited with the new regulations, I think they will serve the NADAC world very well.

With big thanks to Chris and Amanda for taking the time and energy to address everything that comes up around these issues.

General Discussion / Re: VT Voting Results
« Last post by Lorrie Stelz on December 14, 2017, 04:43:05 PM »
We appreciate you hearing everyones opinions and doing the survey.  As always in my life... NADAC RULES!!!  <3
General Discussion / Re: Possible VT solutions
« Last post by danforth on December 14, 2017, 12:00:25 PM »
I came into NADAC because my instructor ran NADAC and said that she thought a few of us were ready to trial.   I had no real information about other venues.   I did really like the flow and that fact that as a Vet handler, my mini poodle and I could jump 9 inches.   In USDAA he would have had to jump 16 inches as standard height.

However, in our area, there are several CPE venues and also TDAA that are really close.   Next close is AKC and our club runs 1 USDAA trial a year.  I really like NADAC with the distance and flow.   Chances has been our best class and I am getting a new puppy given that I think Cocoa is now 9.5 years old and slowing down.

I guess if my initial instructor had been gung-ho CPE, I might have been okay running in that venue.  But I am really glad that I got taken to a NADAC trial as my first one.

General Discussion / Re: Possible VT solutions
« Last post by BeckyAH on December 14, 2017, 11:11:39 AM »
I really, honestly, having dog friends across many agility venues and many sports and play in several and can say pretty definitively:

Numbers are down across ALL agility venues, and markedly so. AKC and then USDAA seem the most stable but they're also having a notable falloff.   

Numbers in flyball and obedience (not rally) are ALSO way the heck down.   There's more stuff to do now and people are making decisions about what to do.  More new people coming in, yeah, but not enough to compensate for the fact that it's no longer agility, obedience, or flyball.  Now it's agility in one of 6 organizations, obedience with several organizations,  rally with several organizations, dock diving with multiple organization, disc with multiple organizations, nosework with at least a couple of organizations, freestyle with at least a couple of organizations, herding with at least a couple of organizations, treibball, barn hunt, parkour (also with at least a couple of organizations) - and more organizations offering flyball and obedience and agility, too.

WHY ARE ENTRIES FALLING OFF?  Some of those sports in various ways have been around forever, but they're spreading to new areas  and new organizations are being made.  How in the WORLD is it even possible to think that numbers in any individual trial isn't going to fall with that many options?

Yes, most people are going to go where their instructor recommends or is already at (if they're doing so rather than being professionally neutral)  but I  really, really don't think this is some mysterious thing.   Probably a complicated one with many, many factors, but honestly?  OPTIONS EVERYWHERE.  For sports and for venue, for live and for videoed (rally, freestyle, and parkour all have online divisions/ability to title).  It just - there aren't enough new people, time and money to see that kind of growth and not having entries into trials, venues, or sports drop off.
General Discussion / Re: Possible VT solutions
« Last post by dogrsqr on December 14, 2017, 10:15:25 AM »
There was actually a time when there weren't as many venues or trials so pretty much everyone did every local trial ... well except for AKC because they wouldn't let mixes play back then.  It wasn't based on what your instructor told you.

As an instructor I've actually had students ask which venues they should enter.  I've told them the clinical differences between the organizations, basically anything they could find in the rule book, and told them it's their decision where they want to play.  Why do instructors need to share their personal opinions with their students at all?  There are training schools in our area that won't even acknowledge their students accomplishments in certain venues.  Now why would anyone want to give someone their money for treating them that way I sure as heck don't know.

General Discussion / Re: Possible VT solutions
« Last post by KarissaKS on December 14, 2017, 09:24:41 AM »
I may have missed it, but I don't recall seeing any posts saying that because you don't do any VTs, your opinion doesn't matter.

The one in particular that I was referencing was conveniently edited.

And if the majority of your students do AKC, I have no doubt that your one student who preferred AKC, probably does because either all her friends are doing it, or all her other friends pressured her into doing it. I would have been curious enough to ask her why she preferred AKC over NADAC.

I moved to an area with no agility and started an agility program from the ground up. My first batch of students all went together to their first trial, which was a NADAC trial. This student was the first (and only, so far) to attend an AKC trial. I asked her at the end of the weekend if she was leaning one way or the other (especially as she had shared with me that she is going to have extremely limited time for showing, so she doesn't want to split that between organizations) -- I was honestly surprised that her answer was AKC because she did not have any qualifying runs in AKC that weekend, and she had seen some success at the NADAC trial. Also, this was a 2-ring AKC trial where she sat for HOURS with nothing to do, versus the NADAC trial where she ran all day long. She didn't seem to have a very clear way to verbalize why she preferred her weekend of AKC, other than that she preferred the courses. She is a competitive person who likes to be challenged.

And I'm just curious-- do you only have concerns about Nadac, or do you have concerns about other organizations as well?

No agility organization is "perfect." AKC is my primary venue right now and I'm unaware of any big issues that need to be addressed there (others may disagree). I dislike the jump height alignments in USDAA for small dogs, so I simply don't run my small dogs in USDAA. The USDAA trials are small here, where AKC trials rule. Somewhat because of jump heights, somewhat because of course challenges. My only complaint about UKI is that there isn't more of it around here.

I, too, am very appreciative of the increased communication since Chris & Amanda took the helm and it's the primary reason why I have added more NADAC back into my schedule. For the most part I feel like I go with the flow and accept what an organization offers and make my choice to participate in that organization based on whether or not I agree with those principles. I have been vehemently against the VT program since its inception, or at least since it was combined with the regular program. I know people who left NADAC because of it, or at least it was part of the issue (double run format was another one that chased at least a few people away, along with barrels and other such things).

NADAC was my only organization from when I started in 2007 (AKC didn't allow mixed breeds back then so that wasn't an option, and my training center hosted a lot of NADAC trials) and remained my only organization until I started to compete in AKC in 2013. Oh wait, I dabbled some in USDAA for a bit in 2012 but the jump heights were an issue for my small dog. I didn't "jump ship" because my friends were doing it -- I didn't know a soul when I started running USDAA and AKC.  That means that there were specific things to NADAC that drove myself and others away. I didn't leave NADAC entirely because it was the only place Luke liked to play, and Kaiser enjoys it as well. That means I was at least here to see the positive influence and changes since Chris & Amanda took things over -- those who completely left are likely unaware.

Ultimately, I think you need to stop talking to people who only do NADAC to try to determine why people aren't doing NADAC. Much like my opinion about VT not counting if I don't do VT, if all you do is NADAC then you don't really have much to say about why people don't do NADAC.
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