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81
General Discussion / Re: Allowing BIS to compete at trials
« Last post by Marcy Matties on July 06, 2018, 07:36:27 AM »
 
[/quote]
Best response yet!

All the rules that would be put in place are purely for the sake of the handlers and what they believe will help,  regardless of the fact that you could wrap the entire dog in Saran Wrap and duct tape and it wouldnít make a bit of difference in regards to a dogs sense of smell and sensitivity to those odors.

While weíre on the honesty train Iíll also throw in that I do believe a dog can be worked through the distraction.   Do I believe that the majority of handlers will be able to do that with their dogs?  Absolutely not.

Itís the same as saying that anyone can solve a rubix cube in under 5 minutes,  itís absolutely possible and just a matter of time and practice.
Does that mean anyone here is going to spend the time and effort to learn how to do it?   

Some will,  most wonít.

And for better or worse the majority rules.

If we start allowing BIS weíre going to lose much more then weíll gain.

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[/quote]

And that would be a loss for EVERYONE.  Not just those people with intact females.

82
General Discussion / Re: Allowing BIS to compete at trials
« Last post by Chris Nelson on July 06, 2018, 06:57:14 AM »
It's probibly a moot point but I guess I don't understand the reason for the specific requirements if you were to allow BIS at trials. I mean, if a male can smell a BIS from a mile down the road, what will keeping panties on her while  running do besides make the humans feel better and also adding risk of injury? And I get the point of the matt but what if dogs scoot off the mat? Ya, I'm sure having a mat would make a start line stay easier, but most dogs get excited and readjust, so now they are sitting on the ground. Do they get an E now just because they didn't hold their stay on a mat? All these regulations seem to be about the human conceptions of BIS not for the dogs. It seems like either allow it or don't allow it. I can just see puppies in panties becoming just another thing for people to freak about too. "Well my dog has never seen a border collie in yellow flowered underwear before, he is just freaked out! Panties should only be neutral collars from now on! Panties must match the color pattern and flow of the dog!" ;) And this is how the great underwear revolution starts.   
Best response yet!

And to be 100% honest youíre correct.

All the rules that would be put in place are purely for the sake of the handlers and what they believe will help,  regardless of the fact that you could wrap the entire dog in Saran Wrap and duct tape and it wouldnít make a bit of difference in regards to a dogs sense of smell and sensitivity to those odors.

While weíre on the honesty train Iíll also throw in that I do believe a dog can be worked through the distraction.   Do I believe that the majority of handlers will be able to do that with their dogs?  Absolutely not.

Itís the same as saying that anyone can solve a rubix cube in under 5 minutes,  itís absolutely possible and just a matter of time and practice.
Does that mean anyone here is going to spend the time and effort to learn how to do it?   

Some will,  most wonít.

And for better or worse the majority rules.

If the stigma around the issue changes I could see our stance changing on it as well,  but at this point I donít feel comfortable causing a upset over an issue that the majority of competitors donít support, as evidenced by the voting.

So for the Pro-BIS people I understand your issues and I agree to a certain extent.   

But as a business I canít change something that the majority does not want.   

And the changes that do happen even when the majority doesnít agree are usually on bigger issues that pose a larger problem with the sport.

If we start allowing BIS weíre going to lose much more then weíll gain.




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83
General Discussion / Re: Allowing BIS to compete at trials
« Last post by mstomel on July 06, 2018, 06:48:43 AM »
It's probibly a moot point but I guess I don't understand the reason for the specific requirements if you were to allow BIS at trials. I mean, if a male can smell a BIS from a mile down the road, what will keeping panties on her while  running do besides make the humans feel better and also adding risk of injury? And I get the point of the matt but what if dogs scoot off the mat? Ya, I'm sure having a mat would make a start line stay easier, but most dogs get excited and readjust, so now they are sitting on the ground. Do they get an E now just because they didn't hold their stay on a mat? All these regulations seem to be about the human conceptions of BIS not for the dogs. It seems like either allow it or don't allow it. I can just see puppies in panties becoming just another thing for people to freak about too. "Well my dog has never seen a border collie in yellow flowered underwear before, he is just freaked out! Panties should only be neutral collars from now on! Panties must match the color pattern and flow of the dog!" ;) And this is how the great underwear revolution starts.   
84
General Discussion / Re: Allowing BIS to compete at trials
« Last post by lmschuft on July 06, 2018, 06:28:55 AM »
Iíve not been competing much lately, but have had bitches in heat and that was inconvient for certain competitions, including agility.  It is a short time frame they are cycling and I feel it is not a big deal to miss a competition.  Most venues offer a refund of entry fees if you have this happen.  I also think a bitch in heat can not be in the right mind set, depending on where in cycle she is, for competing.  If I happen to have a girl along that comes in heat I also try and keep her away from the trial area to be fair to others.  You usually know when you girl will cycle, so you try to plan around this. 
85
General Discussion / Re: Allowing BIS to compete at trials
« Last post by rondadillard on July 06, 2018, 05:40:21 AM »
As the owner of an intact girl, there are two reasons to allow BIS to run: 1. The loss about 2 months each cycle or 4 months out of 12, and 2. Without a 100% refund policy, BIS are running today.
I am uncertain what NADAC's policy is regarding a BIS that scratches after closing, but the extremes are USDAA requires a fee for every dog entered as of closing and AKC requires zero dollars if a BIS is scratched. A girl coming into season isn't an exact science. You can tell she is getting close, but she isn't in season until the bleeding discharge appears. I enter my dogs on opening day, or as soon as premiums appear. Because I play by the rules, I start scratching my entries at closing (except for AKC) for trials that start five months after her last season began. I continue to scratch at closing until her season starts, the scratch the next three weeks. This tends to leave a 4 - 8 week period where she can't compete. Not everyone plays by those rules, and some will run their girl when she isn't actively bleeding so that they don't lose their entry fees. The NADAC trials I usually enter don't allow refunds after closing for any reason, so my intact girl who is due in early September won't enter a NADAC trial until October - assuming she comes in as expected.
At least she can continue to take class while in season, as long as she wears panties. We have made available the soiled liners for people to use as a training distraction, and class also presents a training opportunity for the boys to train through the distraction.
86
General Discussion / Re: Teeter
« Last post by Chris Nelson on July 06, 2018, 04:44:50 AM »
The small dogs werenít the reason why the teeter went away.  It wasnít a safety issue for them.


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87
General Discussion / Re: Teeter
« Last post by Sheila & the Shelties on July 06, 2018, 12:22:04 AM »
 I've read everything Chris and Amanda had to say. And I understand it would be in a separate class, but without knowing more about the specifics about that, I can't comment on that. But I am one of those that would not be happy to see the teeter come back. Perhaps my mind could be changed. But I saw a lot of problems I don't think can be addressed by pneumatic Teeter. It seemed to me the small dogs were at the disadvantage on the Teeter, not the large dogs. And then there's always the issue of getting the equipment if you want to practice on it. I had a teacher at one time, but it's long gone. And it seems overtime that I bought equipment that disappeared in a year or two, and the expense can add up.
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I'm afraid it's true that no matter what a club does, the ultimate responsibility is going to fall in the person with the aggressive dog. You can be as Vigilant as you want with your dog, but if someone is not careful with their aggressive dog you are at some point probably going to fall victim to a dog of that kind. You know how your own dog reacts, but not everyone else does. I don't know what the suggestion ultimately is, but training and taking more seriously the events that occur dogs might help to control the matter. And I agree that there are many people out there that you would think would know better have no idea that their dog is staring down other dogs. Years ago I remember a dog that everyone who competed regularly knew was aggressive towards other dogs. There were quite a few incidents. The one that really bothered me was someone who didn't regularly attend our trials was out in the ring, and the dog in the ring eventually charged this dog who was right at the edge of the Ring which was only tape. The woman with the dog in the ring got excused. But the other dog, who was staring down that dog with intimidation should have also been excused. It should have been excused long before that incident. Is education the answer? I would like to think so.
89
General Discussion / Re: June Announcement for January 2019 Rule Changes
« Last post by Chris Nelson on July 05, 2018, 11:55:53 PM »
It sounded like with standardized premiums, there will be a standardized starting time. Is that correct? Will there be standardized classes as well? Will all the runs be double runs in the future? Is there any leeway at all in deciding what classes are offered?
Definitely no on all counts.

Standardized only means that the info will be in the same place for all premiums, but the info within will be different per the clubs normal routine


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90
It sounded like with standardized premiums, there will be a standardized starting time. Is that correct? Will there be standardized classes as well? Will all the runs be double runs in the future? Is there any leeway at all in deciding what classes are offered?
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