Author Topic: EGC mixed with a Traditional Trial  (Read 3872 times)

Sharon Nelson

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Re: EGC mixed with a Traditional Trial
« Reply #30 on: January 21, 2013, 10:04:57 AM »
Once EGC classes are offered with traditional classes and maybe more people are exposed to it and like it, would you consider keeping all the EGC classes so there could still be EGC trials or do you more envision it being handled like most clubs do  around here with some 3-day trials and they just pick and choose what games they offer?  We like to play them all!

That would be a great solution..... if EGC is offered on the same day as traditional classes, then limit those runs to Extreme Hoopers or Extreme Barrelers... but if it is a "stand alone" EGC trial, then all classes could be offered.....

Good input, folks!!

Sharon
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Karin Bell

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Re: EGC mixed with a Traditional Trial
« Reply #31 on: January 21, 2013, 10:31:08 AM »
I really like the idea of introducing EGC into our Traditional Trial Format.  I think it will compliment what we are currently offering.  One concern I do have though is that many clubs already have a Trailer full of equipment.  I know the club we rent our equipment from is a good example of this since I have packed the trailer myself!  I can't really see that there would be room in the trailer for 18 or more gates for the Hoopers Class.  If we are down to only offering Hoopers and Barrelers, then it becomes an equipment challenge.  Maybe instead of doing away with Gaters, the class could be modified to make it more interesting and unique.  The fact that Gaters uses less different equipment than a club would already have in their trailer would make this a class that is more likely to make sense to offer...

Looking forward to having more opportunities to play EGC!
Karin Bell
Auburn, CA
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Jean Sather (McCreight)

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Re: EGC mixed with a Traditional Trial
« Reply #32 on: January 21, 2013, 10:38:35 AM »
As we evaluate EGC and looks at stats and input.... it is possible that we might phase out Extreme Gaters and Extreme Chances as EGC gets merged into the regular NADAC trials.

ISharon

The biggest reason is that Extreme Chances and Extreme Gaters don't offer a lot of "difference" that can't be found in other NADAC classes on a large scale.... the gates are unique, but other than that, the tests can be found within other NADAC classes such as Chances or the other non-jumping classes.  Barrellers and Extreme Hoopers do offer challenges that cannot be found within the other NADAC classes.  That is part of the reason that they are "tougher" and take a bit more training to conquer. 

Sharon

I like the idea of reducing EGC classes to just Barrelers and X-Hoopers, for several reasons -- I agree with you Sharon about the challenges being different from other NADAC classes (and Zack and I will BOTH appreciate the addition of some hoops to Open & Elite Barrelers, and less twisty-turny and more flow in those courses!  :)  My other challenge (and I am sure I am not alone in this) is that I still have a lot of goals I want to accomplish with both dogs in the 7 other classes previously offered in NADAC.  My budget is pretty hard-pressed just to pay entry fees for those classes, without adding 2 or 4 other classes to trial offerings.  I'd love to support EVERYTHING NADAC has to offer -- and I have at least one dog who thrives on "MORE?  Bring it on!!!" -- but my finances DO have limitations!  :(
Jean, Zack & Tux
Montana

Sara9889

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Re: EGC mixed with a Traditional Trial
« Reply #33 on: January 21, 2013, 12:15:21 PM »
As we evaluate EGC and looks at stats and input.... it is possible that we might phase out Extreme Gaters and Extreme Chances as EGC gets merged into the regular NADAC trials.

I know this year at champs we will only be having Extreme Hoopers and Extreme Barrelers at the Champs.  We are also going to add hoops to the Extreme Barrelers to help people from getting lost so easily in the "sea of barrels" in Open and Elite.  Barrelers works at Novice.... but it gets visually tough at Open and Elite!


Sharon


I personally would be sad to see Extreme Chances and Gaters go by the wayside. I understand and agree that some of the obstacles and some of the skills are duplicated in other NADAC classes. However, I think there are some unique differences that make these Extreme classes useful and fun, at least for Sinner and I!

I feel that Extreme Chances tests distance skills to a different level of precision than does regular Chances. I can get away with more lapses in handling in regular Chances and still have a qualifying run. If we have any “blips” in Extreme chances we are not so successful. It has really helped me become a better handler all around and specifically so for Chances. Extreme Gaters is similar, in that things happen so quickly and the standards of performance are high you have to be on your toes (and paws)!

I hope we get to keep these classes as part of the Extreme Games, whether it be as part of regular trials or just for EGC only trials.

Sara McKinley and Sinner
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Sharon Nelson

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Re: EGC mixed with a Traditional Trial
« Reply #34 on: January 21, 2013, 12:15:37 PM »
I really like the idea of introducing EGC into our Traditional Trial Format.  I think it will compliment what we are currently offering.  One concern I do have though is that many clubs already have a Trailer full of equipment.  I know the club we rent our equipment from is a good example of this since I have packed the trailer myself!  I can't really see that there would be room in the trailer for 18 or more gates for the Hoopers Class.  If we are down to only offering Hoopers and Barrelers, then it becomes an equipment challenge.  Maybe instead of doing away with Gaters, the class could be modified to make it more interesting and unique.  The fact that Gaters uses less different equipment than a club would already have in their trailer would make this a class that is more likely to make sense to offer...

Looking forward to having more opportunities to play EGC!

Then they could just offer Barrellers............ that takes minimal room!

Sharon
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TheQuestKnight

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Re: EGC mixed with a Traditional Trial
« Reply #35 on: January 21, 2013, 12:42:16 PM »
This post is authored by someone who has never experienced any of the EGC classes in a trial setting.  I've just seen sample courses and have set some things up in our yard for our kids and us to play with . . .

EG Barrelers (barrel racing) is unique . . .

EG Gaters has elements of Tunnelers . . .

EG Chances has elements of Chances, Hoopers and Tunnelers . . .

EG Hoopers has elements of Chances and numbered Hoopers . . .

As I've experinced things at home, EG Barrelers is FAST, FURRY-OUS, and FUN, even when we screw up the pattern . . . BADLY!  In that regard, I think Barrelers should stand alone as a barrel class . . .

I see the potential for a second class . . . perhaps called "Simply Extreme" . . . that combines elements from the other 3 EG classes . . .

Easy enough to incorporate a Chances restriction line somewhere on the course . . . with a Chances-like distance challenge, it might be possible to make the hoop & gate "corral" a bit smaller . . . more along the lines of a "Hobday Square" of hoop with 4 gates completing the octagon "corral" . . .

"Non-test" (Chances restriction line & Hoop "corral") hoops, gates and tunnels could be strategically placed to keep the challenges diverse and appropriate for the various levels.

Personally, I could see the following benefits to this two class system . . .

One, for clubs willing to try adding EGC to their trials, it eliminates the frustration of picking which 2 EG classes to add to a traditional trial . . .

Points earned in EG Gaters, Chances and Hoopers could be combined into the new "Simply Extreme" class, which I think/hope may minimize the paperwork . . .

For clubs offering "Non-Jumping Weekend Trials", those Trials could be expanded to 8 runs per day, with no more than 2 daily runs or 4 weekend runs each of Tunnelers, Touch N Go, Weavers, Hoopers, Barrelers or "Simply Extreme" . . .

IMHO, it also makes investing in EG equipment a bit more viable for very small clubs . . . 55 gallon drums are relatively easy to find . . . not sure if 32 gallon round trash cans would be acceptable (turned upside down with their handles secured in the ground with "hook shaped" stakes with no exposed points) . . . and needing fewer gates . . .

I would personally find it extremely difficult to put together a slate of classes, even with 8 runs available, from a list of 11 choices/day . . . and provide sufficient options for the "consuming public" . . .

With the numbers of hoops that are showing up in other classes, Hoopers as a class may be losing some of it's challenge . . .

At some future point in time, I could envision "Simply Extreme" evolving into the replacement for Chances because it would be testing a new set of skills at a distance . . .

I believe that the EG classes represent the future of agility training . . . THE PATH, don'cha know???

. . . but many will only come on-board kicking and screaming at first, so it needs to be introduced and incorporated in a way that encourages folks to TRY IT . . . rather than to fight it . . .

Sharon has already floated several ideas when it comes to the paths that EGC could take . . . it's really up to us to THINK OUTSIDE OF THE BOX ABOUT THE FUTURE the way that Sharon does . . . and to avoid "critiquing" that which may change or be eliminated . . .

Change is merely OPPORTUNITY KNOCKING . . . I fractured a couple of vertabrae in 2011 . . . there's a lot of things that I used to do that I can't do very well anymore . . . but I've found MANY new things to do!!!

Our Dred is "legally blind" in most states; but he functions quite well . . . at one point in his life, he was a very talented, highly "decorated", agility "star" . . . there's A LOT in agility that he can no longer do; but he does REALLY WELL with many aspects of EGC!!!

IMHO, if a club offers 6 traditional classes on Saturday and Sunday and 2 EGC classes, they'll maintain the entries that they would normally have with just 6 traditional classes . . . any entries in the EGC classes are a "bonus" for paying the bills/profit . . .

I and mine don't trial much anymore . . . "old fart" humans and two "DD" dogs with issues . . . and one "soon to be veteran" young dog with issues . . . but we don't want to see NADAC "stagnate" the way that I feel that many venues have, because they seem to fear change . . .

The more that we do as individuals to push our sport where it has not been before, the better it will be for those that follow behind us . . .

"To boldly go where no one has gone before" applies to agility as well . . .

Live long & prosper . . .

Al, Barb, Dred, Gael & Pelli
Castle Camelot: Al, Barb, Dred, Gael & Pellinore . . . and from The Bridge Grill & Pub,  Kali, Flurry, Promise, Chico, Romulus, Trix and Tony.

Maureen deHaan

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Re: EGC mixed with a Traditional Trial
« Reply #36 on: January 21, 2013, 02:19:51 PM »
Sharon -

If we choose to offer 2 rounds of an event (ie: Barrelers) will it still be run as it was - no course change - just a repeat of the first course?

just want to be sure. Popping the check in the mail to you after this response so I know how many runs I want to do

Thanks!
Maureen, Nika, Kiva & Zoe
Play~Bow
Kingston, NY

"A great dog is not determined by its papers"

Sharon Nelson

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Re: EGC mixed with a Traditional Trial
« Reply #37 on: January 21, 2013, 02:22:27 PM »
This post is authored by someone who has never experienced any of the EGC classes in a trial setting.  I've just seen sample courses and have set some things up in our yard for our kids and us to play with . . .

EG Barrelers (barrel racing) is unique . . .

EG Gaters has elements of Tunnelers . . .

EG Chances has elements of Chances, Hoopers and Tunnelers . . .

EG Hoopers has elements of Chances and numbered Hoopers . . .

As I've experinced things at home, EG Barrelers is FAST, FURRY-OUS, and FUN, even when we screw up the pattern . . . BADLY!  In that regard, I think Barrelers should stand alone as a barrel class . . .

I see the potential for a second class . . . perhaps called "Simply Extreme" . . . that combines elements from the other 3 EG classes . . .

Easy enough to incorporate a Chances restriction line somewhere on the course . . . with a Chances-like distance challenge, it might be possible to make the hoop & gate "corral" a bit smaller . . . more along the lines of a "Hobday Square" of hoop with 4 gates completing the octagon "corral" . . .

"Non-test" (Chances restriction line & Hoop "corral") hoops, gates and tunnels could be strategically placed to keep the challenges diverse and appropriate for the various levels.

Personally, I could see the following benefits to this two class system . . .

One, for clubs willing to try adding EGC to their trials, it eliminates the frustration of picking which 2 EG classes to add to a traditional trial . . .

Points earned in EG Gaters, Chances and Hoopers could be combined into the new "Simply Extreme" class, which I think/hope may minimize the paperwork . . .

For clubs offering "Non-Jumping Weekend Trials", those Trials could be expanded to 8 runs per day, with no more than 2 daily runs or 4 weekend runs each of Tunnelers, Touch N Go, Weavers, Hoopers, Barrelers or "Simply Extreme" . . .

IMHO, it also makes investing in EG equipment a bit more viable for very small clubs . . . 55 gallon drums are relatively easy to find . . . not sure if 32 gallon round trash cans would be acceptable (turned upside down with their handles secured in the ground with "hook shaped" stakes with no exposed points) . . . and needing fewer gates . . .

I would personally find it extremely difficult to put together a slate of classes, even with 8 runs available, from a list of 11 choices/day . . . and provide sufficient options for the "consuming public" . . .

With the numbers of hoops that are showing up in other classes, Hoopers as a class may be losing some of it's challenge . . .

At some future point in time, I could envision "Simply Extreme" evolving into the replacement for Chances because it would be testing a new set of skills at a distance . . .

I believe that the EG classes represent the future of agility training . . . THE PATH, don'cha know???

. . . but many will only come on-board kicking and screaming at first, so it needs to be introduced and incorporated in a way that encourages folks to TRY IT . . . rather than to fight it . . .

Sharon has already floated several ideas when it comes to the paths that EGC could take . . . it's really up to us to THINK OUTSIDE OF THE BOX ABOUT THE FUTURE the way that Sharon does . . . and to avoid "critiquing" that which may change or be eliminated . . .

Change is merely OPPORTUNITY KNOCKING . . . I fractured a couple of vertabrae in 2011 . . . there's a lot of things that I used to do that I can't do very well anymore . . . but I've found MANY new things to do!!!

Our Dred is "legally blind" in most states; but he functions quite well . . . at one point in his life, he was a very talented, highly "decorated", agility "star" . . . there's A LOT in agility that he can no longer do; but he does REALLY WELL with many aspects of EGC!!!

IMHO, if a club offers 6 traditional classes on Saturday and Sunday and 2 EGC classes, they'll maintain the entries that they would normally have with just 6 traditional classes . . . any entries in the EGC classes are a "bonus" for paying the bills/profit . . .

I and mine don't trial much anymore . . . "old fart" humans and two "DD" dogs with issues . . . and one "soon to be veteran" young dog with issues . . . but we don't want to see NADAC "stagnate" the way that I feel that many venues have, because they seem to fear change . . .

The more that we do as individuals to push our sport where it has not been before, the better it will be for those that follow behind us . . .

"To boldly go where no one has gone before" applies to agility as well . . .

Live long & prosper . . .

Al, Barb, Dred, Gael & Pelli

Interesting input!  The Simply Extreme is very interesting.

Or some form of combining the titles and points from Gaters and Chances.

Sharon
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Sharon Nelson

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Re: EGC mixed with a Traditional Trial
« Reply #38 on: January 21, 2013, 02:23:45 PM »
Sharon -

If we choose to offer 2 rounds of an event (ie: Barrelers) will it still be run as it was - no course change - just a repeat of the first course?

just want to be sure. Popping the check in the mail to you after this response so I know how many runs I want to do

Thanks!

Yes, Maureen, if there are two rounds of EGC, they are the same course run twice.

Sharon
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Maureen deHaan

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Re: EGC mixed with a Traditional Trial
« Reply #39 on: January 21, 2013, 02:28:13 PM »
OK then - sending you a check for adding 4 runs of EGC to my Aril trial :) 

2 Barrelers on Sat and 2 Hoopers on Sunday

SO so so so so excited to be able to do this!!
Maureen, Nika, Kiva & Zoe
Play~Bow
Kingston, NY

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Sharon Nelson

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Re: EGC mixed with a Traditional Trial
« Reply #40 on: January 21, 2013, 02:53:12 PM »
OK then - sending you a check for adding 4 runs of EGC to my Aril trial :) 

2 Barrelers on Sat and 2 Hoopers on Sunday

SO so so so so excited to be able to do this!!

Awesome, Maureen, I think you will have fun!!

Sharon
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DeafSheltieMom

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Re: EGC mixed with a Traditional Trial
« Reply #41 on: January 21, 2013, 03:28:20 PM »
Our small club is deciding whether or not to add EGC to the weekend classes.  Note that there has been NO EGC offered here in Southern California, so it will be new for practically everyone who does not travel to EGC trials.   If we did offer one, it would be one game (2 rounds).  We thought we'd add Gaters, as it is a more "familiar" game to people, incorporating new and old obstacles.  That way, people can learn the "hows" of EGC without over taxing their brains...  also, it is the least taxing for the club, as we do not have any gates.  We can borrow barrels and gates from individuals in the club to run Gaters, but not enough for a full class of Hoopers.  We also felt Barrelers was a little TOO new as a first time intro to EGC. 

I personally would be sad to see Gaters and Chances go (my best and worse classes :), ironically), but I can also see the logic behind it.  I like the idea of mixing the games into one class... that may be a bit more palatable for individuals and clubs alike.  Keep the ideas coming!   I'm enjoying this discussion...

-dayle

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 Mom to Alva, Hutch and Tesla

Sharon Nelson

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Re: EGC mixed with a Traditional Trial
« Reply #42 on: January 21, 2013, 04:36:48 PM »
Our small club is deciding whether or not to add EGC to the weekend classes.  Note that there has been NO EGC offered here in Southern California, so it will be new for practically everyone who does not travel to EGC trials.   If we did offer one, it would be one game (2 rounds).  We thought we'd add Gaters, as it is a more "familiar" game to people, incorporating new and old obstacles.  That way, people can learn the "hows" of EGC without over taxing their brains...  also, it is the least taxing for the club, as we do not have any gates.  We can borrow barrels and gates from individuals in the club to run Gaters, but not enough for a full class of Hoopers.  We also felt Barrelers was a little TOO new as a first time intro to EGC. 

I personally would be sad to see Gaters and Chances go (my best and worse classes :), ironically), but I can also see the logic behind it.  I like the idea of mixing the games into one class... that may be a bit more palatable for individuals and clubs alike.  Keep the ideas coming!   I'm enjoying this discussion...

-dayle

I do understand people wanting to run the EGC classes that are closest to what they are already skilled in.... but that is also why we really like the ones that test new skills!

I like this discussion too!

Sharon
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Re: EGC mixed with a Traditional Trial
« Reply #43 on: January 21, 2013, 04:44:21 PM »
I would be sorry to see Extreme Gaters and Chances disappear.  We have to travel to do EGC, so they are all still new and interesting to us.  What will happen to the points we earned?

Change is not bad, but constant change leads some people into unwillingness to commit to new things as it will change again next year.
Sheila & the Shelties

Sharon Nelson

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Re: EGC mixed with a Traditional Trial
« Reply #44 on: January 21, 2013, 05:00:37 PM »
I would be sorry to see Extreme Gaters and Chances disappear.  We have to travel to do EGC, so they are all still new and interesting to us.  What will happen to the points we earned?

Change is not bad, but constant change leads some people into unwillingness to commit to new things as it will change again next year.

You will still see lots of them in EGC trials... maybe not so much at "mixed" trials.

Sharon
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