Author Topic: EGC mixed with a Traditional Trial  (Read 3886 times)

A Jussero

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Re: EGC mixed with a Traditional Trial
« Reply #45 on: January 21, 2013, 05:46:01 PM »
I just actually managed to get our tiny little club (the only one within 300 miles) to try adding ECC and EGC to our June trial and now there is talk that these will go away???  We don't have enough equipment for the other two and I was happy to even get these approved as no one else has even seen these classes.  Please leave these available for at least this year.  Thank you!
Ann J.

Sharon Nelson

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Re: EGC mixed with a Traditional Trial
« Reply #46 on: January 21, 2013, 05:53:02 PM »
I will leave it exactly as it is..... no worries... ignore my previous posts.

Sharon
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Sharon Nelson

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Re: EGC mixed with a Traditional Trial
« Reply #47 on: January 21, 2013, 07:40:56 PM »
As we evaluate EGC and looks at stats and input.... it is possible that we might phase out Extreme Gaters and Extreme Chances as EGC gets merged into the regular NADAC trials.

I know this year at champs we will only be having Extreme Hoopers and Extreme Barrelers at the Champs.  We are also going to add hoops to the Extreme Barrelers to help people from getting lost so easily in the "sea of barrels" in Open and Elite.  Barrelers works at Novice.... but it gets visually tough at Open and Elite!


Sharon


I personally would be sad to see Extreme Chances and Gaters go by the wayside. I understand and agree that some of the obstacles and some of the skills are duplicated in other NADAC classes. However, I think there are some unique differences that make these Extreme classes useful and fun, at least for Sinner and I!

I feel that Extreme Chances tests distance skills to a different level of precision than does regular Chances. I can get away with more lapses in handling in regular Chances and still have a qualifying run. If we have any “blips” in Extreme chances we are not so successful. It has really helped me become a better handler all around and specifically so for Chances. Extreme Gaters is similar, in that things happen so quickly and the standards of performance are high you have to be on your toes (and paws)!

I hope we get to keep these classes as part of the Extreme Games, whether it be as part of regular trials or just for EGC only trials.

Sara McKinley and Sinner

They can all stay.  That is good.  I am glad that more people like them!

Sharon
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Re: EGC mixed with a Traditional Trial
« Reply #48 on: January 22, 2013, 07:02:24 AM »
We love Barrels just as it is however I find it a lot like Tunnels I get lost. but that is the challenge.

I  like the idea of Simply Extreme  I would like to see this really explored. It should be something completely different that all other classes.

I think the word extreme should apply to   Xspeed Xpathwoork Xdistance In other words the dog and handler living on the edge. going for broke in a safe environment.

Just my  2 cents
It not the dogs fault stupid!

Lisa Schmit In The Zone Agility

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EGC mixed with a Traditional Trial
« Reply #49 on: January 22, 2013, 08:45:57 AM »
So which classes will b offered at champs?
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TheQuestKnight

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Re: EGC mixed with a Traditional Trial
« Reply #50 on: January 22, 2013, 09:21:19 AM »
I have a great deal of empathy . . . or is that sympathy? . . . for Sharon . . .

Sharon has always been an innovator that has bucked "conventional agility wisdom"; and as it involves creating new and safer ways to play the game, Sharon's mind is one very fertile and productive "field" . . .

Between traditional agility classes . . . or at least those classes that we NADACers consider "traditional" <G> and EGC, we have 11 classes to choose from . . .

Even with 12 traditional classes on a given weekend, in most cases, a minimum of 7 classes are dedicated to Regular (4), Jumpers (2) and Chances (1) . . . not much room for the non-jumping classes, especially Hoopers . . . and it's even "worse" in areas that shun the Non-Jumping Trial weekends . . . many times because entries for those trials are lower than traditional trials . . .

If a club can add 4 EGC classes to a 2-day trial, which ones does one add to build interest that will progress to a full blown EGC trial weekend???

I've been around this sport long enough to know that change is difficult; but why does it seem that the other venues don't get the "flack" about change that NADAC does??? . . . even from NADAC people???  By-and-large, exhibitors don't quit other venues because of changes that improve the safety and enjoyment of the sport . . . it seems that those changes are generally accepted with "open arms" . . . perhaps it's because NADAC instituted the changes FIRST and the others are FINALLY playing catch-up???

Is it because those exhibitors that multi-venue still consider NADAC to be the "outsider" and the venue that complicates their agility lives???  IMHO and at the risk of ruffling some feathers, that says A LOT about the inability of those "trainers" to train for new challenges . . . in other words, if our ancestors that landed on the eastern shores of the US harbored the same attitude, many of us would still be wondering what's on the other side of the Appalachian Mountains!!!

There is still one other venue that has a bunch of weird obstacles and wierd protocols in agility . . . and they still seem to do OK . . .

Personally, I would think it to be very difficult to continue to manage 2 separate programs and 11 classes under one banner, especially in areas where access to trials . . . or even access to sufficient space and video equipment dor VT trials can be difficult/cost prohibitive to obtain . . . is severely limited . . .

For as long as I can remember . . . and I do remember as far back as 1993 . . . NADAC has ALWAYS been about evaluating TEAMWORK, accuracy at speed and accuracy at a distance.  Soooooooooooooooo . . . as NADAC has evolved and the distance line has vanished from Regular, why does Regular need TWICE as many points as ANY other class for advanced awards, when Regular can be run "step for step" with one's dog, if the human is physically able to do so . . .

Chances definitely tests the accuracy at a distance foundational concept of NADAC . . . but with 40 seconds allocated for SCT, speed is definitely NOT a factor . . .         

. . . and from all that I've been able to glean over the years, with the time adjustments and the Skilled category, the only classes that truly test accuracy at speed are the ones in EGC . . .

Sharon has "fought the good fight" for agility for a long time . . . and I don't have a problem if she's content to forego "rocking the boat" one more time that may have the very real consequence of disturbing cash flow . . . which is very much a business consideration in these times . . . well, ANYTIME; but ESPECIALLY in these times . . .

I simply think that all NADAC-first exhibitors would do themselves a GREAT FAVOR by supporting change rather than "fighting" it . . .

IF, IMHO, Regular requirements for awards were the same as the other classes . . . and IF 7 classes could be chosen from the remaining 10, it would be possible to offer a 2-day trial with 2 runs of each class over the weekend.  1, 3 and 4 day trials would have a bit more "latitude" in class selections beyond that which might be the "typical" 2-DAY trial format.  Non-jumping class trials would involve those classes without jumps . . .

As I see it, the NATCH would still only require Regular, Jumpers and Chances . . . but the VERS-NATCH and All-Around could be combined into the VERS-NATCH . . .

Look folks, there are NO "easy" solutions to the seeming dilemma that NADAC has created for itself by having 2 popular programs . . . just not equally popular all over . . .

Folks pooh-poohed Tunnelers at first . . . now, it's probably the most popular traditional, non-jumping class . . .

Folks still grouse about the Hoopers class; but they don't seem to have issues with hoops here and there in the other traditional classes . . . WHY IS THAT???  ANYBODY???

Some folks still aren't too sure about Barrel Racing, NADAC style; but there seems to be broad support for a barrel replacing tightly curved tunnels . . . WHY IS THAT???  ANYBODY???

I don't want to see Sharon/NADAC take any unecessary financial risks with proposed changes . . .

OTOH, I'm more than just a bit disappointed that some individuals/clubs have chosen to be a bit "selfish" for their own wants and desires . . . and to only see the negative aspects of change . . .

As exhibitors, Sharon and NADAC give us SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO much in the way of titles, awards and so forth . . .

. . . why is it that some of us are having difficulty "stepping up to plate" when Sharon and NADAC could use a little support???

Whenever we shy away from new challenges, we stop growing . . . when we stop growing, we're dead . . . even though we may still be able to breathe and eat . . .

Hugs & wags,

Al & Pelli       
Castle Camelot: Al, Barb, Dred, Gael & Pellinore . . . and from The Bridge Grill & Pub,  Kali, Flurry, Promise, Chico, Romulus, Trix and Tony.

Sharon Nelson

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Re: EGC mixed with a Traditional Trial
« Reply #51 on: January 22, 2013, 10:08:34 AM »
So which classes will b offered at champs?

As soon as I get an extra hour in my life, I will publish the champs premium.

Sharon
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dogrsqr

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Re: EGC mixed with a Traditional Trial
« Reply #52 on: January 22, 2013, 10:24:55 AM »


Yes, I am going to work on the course design for Barrelers and get a lot more "flow" into it!!

Sharon
[/quote]

Great!  Abbey and I will both appreciate that.

Gina
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dogrsqr

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Re: EGC mixed with a Traditional Trial
« Reply #53 on: January 22, 2013, 10:48:54 AM »
Pretty much any class I run with my dog measures speed and accuracy at a distance. I personally think that 40 seconds for a Chances run is too long as well.  I've seen way too many people pull out a Q spending 10 seconds redirecting their dog out to an obstacle.  I personally don't think that's the intent of Chances, but it has no affect on me and my dog.

I don't think it should be seen as being negative that people want to keep classes that they've grown to enjoy.  Why not see that as a compliment that what has been presented is great?

As a NADAC only exhibitor (ok maybe I do one trial of another venue per year) I don't think that I have to like every change that happens.  Ultimately Sharon is free to do as she likes.  Sometimes discussion can lead to a better change for all of us.  If we only blindly follow we're kind of like mindless drones.  Wouldn't that be boring!

Gina and Abbey
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TheQuestKnight

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Re: EGC mixed with a Traditional Trial
« Reply #54 on: January 22, 2013, 11:09:13 AM »
. . . and as soon as you get that extra hour, hopefully Becky will have made some BBQ beef waiting . . .

. . . and you can relax with a BBQ beef sammich, some french fries . . . and a relaxing beverage . . .

Champs is in September . . . this is January . . . let the OCD folks obsess compulsively . . .

"Doctor's Orders"

Wags,

"Doc" Pellinore in OH

As soon as I get an extra hour in my life, I will publish the champs premium.

Sharon
Castle Camelot: Al, Barb, Dred, Gael & Pellinore . . . and from The Bridge Grill & Pub,  Kali, Flurry, Promise, Chico, Romulus, Trix and Tony.

Sharon Nelson

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Re: EGC mixed with a Traditional Trial
« Reply #55 on: January 22, 2013, 12:02:44 PM »
Pretty much any class I run with my dog measures speed and accuracy at a distance. I personally think that 40 seconds for a Chances run is too long as well.  I've seen way too many people pull out a Q spending 10 seconds redirecting their dog out to an obstacle.  I personally don't think that's the intent of Chances, but it has no affect on me and my dog.

I don't think it should be seen as being negative that people want to keep classes that they've grown to enjoy.  Why not see that as a compliment that what has been presented is great?

As a NADAC only exhibitor (ok maybe I do one trial of another venue per year) I don't think that I have to like every change that happens.  Ultimately Sharon is free to do as she likes.  Sometimes discussion can lead to a better change for all of us.  If we only blindly follow we're kind of like mindless drones.  Wouldn't that be boring!

Gina and Abbey

I hear you, and I will leave it just as it is!!

At champs there will only be Barrelers and Hoopers, but all four will stay for the weekend trials!!

Thanks and good input.

Sharon
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TheQuestKnight

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Re: EGC mixed with a Traditional Trial
« Reply #56 on: January 22, 2013, 12:07:55 PM »
With all due respect, the past is the PAST . . . been there, done that . . . don't need to do it again . . .

Sharon is pushing us to IMPROVE . . . those that fight that for whatever reason display a complacency that is NOT worthy of our species . . . hell, most so-called "inferior species" LOVE being challenged to improve and get bored with "life as it has been"!!!

I'm NOT advocating "mindless drones"; but I have a REAL PROBLEM with folks that REFUSE to embrace a challenge because it takes them out of their "comfort zone" . . .

Al

Pretty much any class I run with my dog measures speed and accuracy at a distance. I personally think that 40 seconds for a Chances run is too long as well.  I've seen way too many people pull out a Q spending 10 seconds redirecting their dog out to an obstacle.  I personally don't think that's the intent of Chances, but it has no affect on me and my dog.

I don't think it should be seen as being negative that people want to keep classes that they've grown to enjoy.  Why not see that as a compliment that what has been presented is great?

As a NADAC only exhibitor (ok maybe I do one trial of another venue per year) I don't think that I have to like every change that happens.  Ultimately Sharon is free to do as she likes.  Sometimes discussion can lead to a better change for all of us.  If we only blindly follow we're kind of like mindless drones.  Wouldn't that be boring!

Gina and Abbey
Castle Camelot: Al, Barb, Dred, Gael & Pellinore . . . and from The Bridge Grill & Pub,  Kali, Flurry, Promise, Chico, Romulus, Trix and Tony.

Re: EGC mixed with a Traditional Trial
« Reply #57 on: January 22, 2013, 07:42:48 PM »
Change, like anything else, needs to be evaluated.  Change is not always an improvement.  Some people want to know the rules and advance in a known orderly way towards titles, and others just  want to try something new....  Nothing wrong with either attitude.  But if you are headed down one path, it's like changing horses (or dogs) in the middle of the stream.  Too many major changes eventually causes the rider jut to fall in the stream.

I like the fact that Sharon may propose a change, but also often listens to her clientele, those that enjoy doing NADAC.   We need both the people that went West, and those that stayed behind in the East.  If the rules of the road were changed ever time we got in out car to drive, I imagine it would affect people the same---some would thrive on the challenge, and at the other end of the spectrum, it would paralyze others and they would stop driving at all.

I agree with Gina in that discussion is useful and may come up with a better idea than originally proposed.

I do find interesting Al's questions about why Regular requires twice as many points as any other class to advance.
Sheila & the Shelties

TheQuestKnight

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Re: EGC mixed with a Traditional Trial
« Reply #58 on: January 23, 2013, 08:27:08 AM »
Discussion /debate is healthy and good . . . digging in one's heels to resist change simply because it's change and MAY take them out of their comfort zone is neither discussion nor debate . . .

During my association with NADAC, NADAC has NEVER introduced changes "willy-nilly" . . . they have been discussed by the apparent "powers that be", researced and implementaion procedures outlined to permit a gradual implementation of the change(s), time to raise funds for needed new equipment (if any) and other things, such as programming, titling, etc. . . .

In all cases that I am aware of, NADAC has ALWAYS used it's FUNRaisers to test, experiment with and gather data on new ideas and concepts . . .

It is my sincere hope that Sharon will take some of her new ideas and "run with them" at FUNRaisers . . .

In most cases, it does seem that FUNRaisers hold more appeal for the "progressives" in NADAC . . . much in the way that NADAC Championships do, because there is ALWAYS a "new" challenge that must be addressed and embraced with open arms . . .

My only hope is that Sharon continues to pilot the NADAC ship "BOLDLY . . . where no one has gone before!!!"

Live long and prosper . . .

Al & Pelli
Castle Camelot: Al, Barb, Dred, Gael & Pellinore . . . and from The Bridge Grill & Pub,  Kali, Flurry, Promise, Chico, Romulus, Trix and Tony.