Author Topic: Why NADAC?  (Read 2268 times)

Shirlene Clark

  • Judge
  • *****
  • Posts: 653
Re: Why NADAC?
« Reply #15 on: September 13, 2013, 03:37:33 AM »
I could post an incredibly long post why NADAC for me and mine.....this reason or that reason and so forth......

For me it is simple I listened to my dog......  At the time here in Australia my 12 inch Cairn Terrier was expected to jump over 14 inches in the only venue available in Australia.  The courses took away her impulsion and she then had trouble climbing the steep  Aframe...made even worse if the pause table was the preceeding obstacle.  I struggled to keep her focus and connected with me....my goodness she was shouting at me...and it took a while for me to realise the message she was sending.   Then NADAC agility hit Australia...and once i tried it....watched my dog and really listened to her then it was simple.

I made my decision by listening to my dog and every dog since that I have owned has shown joy and happiness in performing NADAC courses.  for me it was simple and will always be simple......
« Last Edit: September 13, 2013, 03:42:03 AM by Shirlene Clark »
Shirlene Clark
Australia

dogrsqr

  • Trial Secretary
  • *****
  • Posts: 230
Re: Why NADAC?
« Reply #16 on: September 13, 2013, 07:45:16 AM »
I started agility about 17 years ago.  There has been a tremendous amount of change in all venues since then.

First of all there were not very many agility trials back then, so most people played wherever they could.  At that time we had choices of USDAA, AKC and NADAC.  AKC didn't allow mixes and my first dog was a mix so AKC was out of the equation.  I did play some in USDAA, but back then they didn't have performance or veteran so my poor 22" dog had to jump 30".  She didn't have a problem doing it, but I felt that was a little excessive so we limited our USDAA trialing.   

NADAC grew by leaps and bounds around here back then so it quickly became our choice of venue.  I love the speed and flow of the courses.  I like that the dog in "dog agility" is the one being agile.  I like that NADAC trials have a fun, relaxed atmosphere.  I like that NADAC does require time to be a component of qualifying as well as accuracy.

Table-- sooooooo glad there is no table.  Boring ... Yawn.   Number one advantage way back when I first started. 
Teeter-- I would welcome it back with open arms, but understand the reason it went away.  Far too many people training dogs to do the teeter at great speed with no regard for the dog's body.
Tire -- to me it's just another jump.  Years ago NADAC went to a displaceable tire, but everyone whined about it because now their dog could get called for faults for dropping the tire.

Gina Pizzo
and Abbey
Gina Pizzo
Abbey, Trek and Shay

cheyaut

  • *****
  • Posts: 116
    • CheyAut Ranch
Re: Why NADAC?
« Reply #17 on: September 15, 2013, 03:06:19 AM »
Like most (all?), when I started agility I didn't know about different venues. But the club I joined is a NADAC club. As far as I know, it was the only one in my area at the time, although there are/were others in other parts of the area, just not close (now there's multiple in this area). Anyhow, that's how I got started in NADAC.

I also was doing this with a mixed breed (a Malamute/Siberian) so AKC would've been out back then, anyhow.

My club IS a NADAC club, but we also have members that compete in the other venues, so while we focus on NADAC and hold NADAC shows, we also train for the other venues. I do enjoy having some variety now and then in class (teeter, tire, table... all of which were in NADAC when I started), but my heart is with NADAC.

I do NOT like AKC (although I'm glad they now allow mixes... and my club now has an AKC affiliation or whatever the proper terminology is... but I will not do AKC based on my own personal feelings). I've never done a USDAA trial. I don't have any ill feelings towards USDAA, but I just love NADAC so much more. I love the way the courses are. And with limited time and funds (not only do I do the dog thing, I work full time (which includes every other weekend), and I raise/train/show horses), I just stick to trialing in NADAC.

Can't say the other venues are different from personal experience (since I have none with them), but I LOVE the people in NADAC. Everyone is so friendly and helpful :)

I've also done a little ASCA. Way back when, our trials were dual sanctioned NADAC and ASCA. Now that doesn't happen. I like ASCA, but since they don't let my dog jump lower like NADAC does, I no longer do them. I personally don't feel my dog should have to jump higher than 16", so NADAC it is for us :) (I have and compete multiple dogs, but that one is my main agility guy)
Jessi Zamboni

ebgilly

  • *****
  • Posts: 5
Re: Why NADAC?
« Reply #18 on: October 08, 2013, 02:20:18 PM »
NADAC did have teeters in the past (back when I started).  About that time the run to the end and ride it down teeter performance was becoming popular to shave seconds off time.

Sharon did a whole bunch of observations and some research and decided that a dog slamming its whole body riding the teeter was unsafe and it would be nearly impossible to judge "safe".  So teeter was removed in like 2007 or 2008.

I believe the table was removed because it really interrupts the flow of a course.

And tires are pretty unsafe too-- especially before the breakaways.

Becky Gilchrist

Sharon Nelson

  • Mother NADAC
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 6054
Re: Why NADAC?
« Reply #19 on: October 08, 2013, 05:25:18 PM »
NADAC did have teeters in the past (back when I started).  About that time the run to the end and ride it down teeter performance was becoming popular to shave seconds off time.

Sharon did a whole bunch of observations and some research and decided that a dog slamming its whole body riding the teeter was unsafe and it would be nearly impossible to judge "safe".  So teeter was removed in like 2007 or 2008.

I believe the table was removed because it really interrupts the flow of a course.

And tires are pretty unsafe too-- especially before the breakaways.

Becky Gilchrist

NADAC quit using the teeter until such time that all three major venues agreed upon the weight, speed and construction so that dogs would see the same type of teeter at all venues every weekend.  With the invent of slow teeters, fast teeters, lightweight teeters and heavy teeters, we wanted for dogs to work the same type of moving board at all trials.

Sharon
Sharon
In-Sync-Agility

knittingdog

  • *****
  • Posts: 135
    • Cowtown Dog Sports
Re: Why NADAC?
« Reply #20 on: October 09, 2013, 06:28:42 AM »

Just curious - is there ever a chance of the tire coming back to NADAC if it's a breakaway?  I know I stopped doing other venues for awhile because I kept seeing senseless tire crashes.  Everytime it happened, I would get really ticked off.  I'm really happy to see them go to breakaways.

I'm not in love with the tire or anything, but I'm just curious why a breakaway one isn't part of NADAC.

Robin, Misha, and Bullet

bhodges865

  • *****
  • Posts: 52
Re: Why NADAC?
« Reply #21 on: October 09, 2013, 10:22:32 AM »
I have ran 5 different organizations and have settled on NADAC with some CPE.  My dog runs full out so the more distance between obstacles and flowier courses works better for us.  Also, I like that we don't have refusals since this is my first agility dog.  It's very discouraging to have a near flawless run but that 1 refusal will NQ you in other organizations.  While Sharon explained why there is no teeter, I can not tell you how many times I have seen a dog fly off the teeter and get hurt...maybe because they thought it was the dog walk or just was that slow going down.

Since you are suppose to have fun with your dog, I like the games NADAC and CPE have.  After a year competing, it's kind of boring to me just running Jumpers and Standard.  And to top it all off, the distance handling to me is more impressive than if your dog can jump higher and tighter (which leads to more injuries also).  Just watch some of the videos posted on here and you'll see what I mean.

I have found the NADAC people to be competitive but still laid back and friendly.  Some other organizations, you can feel the more stuffy in the atmosphere even though I have not ran into anyone being hateful or vindictive.  ASCA and USDAA, my dog has to jump 16" even though she is on the low side of the jump height.  While she has no problems with that height, at 2.5 yrs old, she already needs massages and a chiro ever month or so.  So now I am jumping her 12" since that has less impact on her joints (she's an all muscle tank).  Also, I LOVE the fact that I don't have to sign up 3 months ahead of the trial!!!  I like being able to adjust my weekend schedule if needed either doing to or not going to a trial.

I also enjoy the fact that in the same time period for the day, I can run 6 classes in NADAC compaired to only 2 maybe 3 in AKC or USDAA!!
« Last Edit: October 10, 2013, 06:17:55 AM by bhodges865 »
Team TX Heeler
Knoxville, TN

Lietzusa

  • *****
  • Posts: 26
Re: Why NADAC?
« Reply #22 on: October 09, 2013, 07:30:32 PM »
Why NADAC?  I started because my sister was competing in it, albeit in Washington State and I was in Virginia.... 

I stayed with NADAC and only compete in NADAC because:

I love the flowing courses.  I love doing distance (with a Rat Terrier - go figure).  I love seeing double digit dogs who are still competing (because they have been running safely for many years) and I love seeing veteran handlers on course enjoying life! 

But most of all,  I absolutely love the people who love their NADAC dogs. We might be competing against each other at Champs, but we are cheering for everyone to succeed and have a great run!  We NADAC folks seem to get as big of a grin when our friends come off the course after "smoking it" as we do when we really connect with our best fuzzy faced friend on course!   We are there to celebrate the good days/runs and to commiserate when life is not as rosy as it should be. 

I always try to welcome the first timers to any trial  - people are what make NADAC fun! 


Vicki Storrs

  • 2016 Online Seminar Group
  • *****
  • Posts: 396
Re: Why NADAC?
« Reply #23 on: October 10, 2013, 05:34:03 AM »
IF I remember correctly (and that's sometimes a big if when talking about my memory :-) when I started running NADAC in 2007, the BREAKAWAY tire jump WAS on the list of possible equipment in NADAC. I never saw one on a course, though, and quite some time later someone mentioned on the yahoo list that it was no longer listed as a possible option in NADAC regulations and Sharon said no one had chosen to use it on a course in so long that it was simply dropped, with no complaints registered.  My dogs then knew how to do it, but I don't miss it at all.

Vicki Storrs
Vicki Storrs

Billie Rosen

  • 2016 Online Seminar Group
  • *****
  • Posts: 98
Re: Why NADAC?
« Reply #24 on: October 10, 2013, 09:57:03 AM »
Destiny:  I compete in NADAC, AKC and USDAA, but NADAC is usually my venue of choice.  There are lots of reasons, but the primary reasons are my dogs love the courses, which are fast and flowing and logical, and I love the judges and people in NADAC.  I have never been to a NADAC trial - and I have shown in NADAC since the beginning of time, well the beginning of NADAC anyway in 1993, - and I travel all over the country and show -- where the people haven't been warm and welcomiing and fun.  Doesn't always happen in other venues.
Billie Rosen    agilek9s@q.com
Kruz'n (Border Terrier)  NATCH 28, Vers. NATCH 14
Klev'r (Border Terrier)  NATCH 11, Vers. NATCH 9
Book'n (Border Terrier)  working on 1st NATCH

DeafSheltieMom

  • 2016 Online Seminar Group
  • *****
  • Posts: 168
  • Course builder
Re: Why NADAC?
« Reply #25 on: October 10, 2013, 11:20:21 AM »
I, like Shirlene, listened to my dog.  I never ran in AKC, as my deaf dog is still barred from the venue.  I do run in CPE, but Alva lets me know very quickly how demotivating it is to run a course with twisty turns and avoiding obstacles.  Mr. Trotty-boy comes out in full force on those courses.  I love the strategy games in CPE, but he'd prefer to run, run, run...  I do try to find him the flowiest course possible (which is why I still do CPE), but sometimes, that just isn't possible.  I never tried USDAA, but with his height requirement (at the time) of jumping 22", that was totally out. 

Alva tells me, on course, when he is having fun.  Early in our trialing career, he had a full-out straight run at the back of the ring.  It was probably our first time doing that...  I heard a "grrrrrr" coming from him, running at full speed (for him), and a silly-sheltie grin.  It was the first time I heard it.  I knew from that point on, NADAC was his venue.  MY DOG chose his venue.  His "grrrrrrrr"s when he is having fun is the sweetest sound I'll ever hear.  And he "grrrrrrr"s  a lot in NADAC, and particularly EGC!  I'll always be grateful for the creation of EGC... he'll never be fast, he'll probably be an Open-forever dog, but he will always have fun.  And that's really what it is all about.
-dayle
-Dayle Shimamura
 Mom to Alva, Hutch and Tesla

James Bell

  • Judge
  • *****
  • Posts: 211
Why NADAC?
« Reply #26 on: October 12, 2013, 03:59:06 PM »
On the teeter, here's a crazy thought. Don't worry about the descent speeds, change the criteria. In other venues, and in NADAC when we still had them, the contacts are the same as the others, you must put at least a toenail in the contact, and in this case can't leave the contact until it's on the ground.

Change the paradigm. Shorten the contact zones, and dogs are not allowed to enter the contact until the teeter is on the ground. They must negotiate the tip before they can leave, or be faulted as blowing any other contact. Teeters are unsafe not because of the equipment as much as the crappy way people trained to drive to the end, and take the impact to the shoulders, and the variances in equipment exacerbated stupidity in training. So change the criteria and the equipment tipping variances no longer matter.
James Bell

Leanne

  • 2016 Online Seminar Group
  • *****
  • Posts: 63
  • Find what you love, and love what you do.
    • Youtube videos
Re: Why NADAC?
« Reply #27 on: October 13, 2013, 06:43:49 PM »
Teeters are unsafe not because of the equipment as much as the crappy way people trained to drive to the end, and take the impact to the shoulders, and the variances in equipment exacerbated stupidity in training. So change the criteria and the equipment tipping variances no longer matter.

The problem with small dogs is that with the teeters tip points varying so much, sometimes the little 10 lb. dogs HAD to go all the way into the yellow before the board would even start to tip.  That's a long fall and a lot of impact for a dog who had only 2 choices on a teeter like that - ride it down and take the impact as the teeter hit the ground or bail and save yourself the pain :(
Leanne
Kent Island, MD

Vicki Storrs

  • 2016 Online Seminar Group
  • *****
  • Posts: 396
Re: Why NADAC?
« Reply #28 on: October 13, 2013, 07:35:06 PM »
On the teeter, here's a crazy thought. Don't worry about the descent speeds, change the criteria. In other venues, and in NADAC when we still had them, the contacts are the same as the others, you must put at least a toenail in the contact, and in this case can't leave the contact until it's on the ground.

Change the paradigm. Shorten the contact zones, and dogs are not allowed to enter the contact until the teeter is on the ground. They must negotiate the tip before they can leave, or be faulted as blowing any other contact. Teeters are unsafe not because of the equipment as much as the crappy way people trained to drive to the end, and take the impact to the shoulders, and the variances in equipment exacerbated stupidity in training. So change the criteria and the equipment tipping variances no longer matter.
A while back I stopped in at a non-NADAC trial (picking up some things from a vendor who was there) and just cringed repeatedly watching the dogs do the teeter--slamming down, bailing off, you name it. And the thing was, I knew some of the teams there and that is NOT how they train the obstacle, they train it the right, "safe" way.  But the dogs get to trials and get amped up...Particularly the novice dogs...and/or the handlers were sometimes not old pros themselves, and their nerves enter into it.  Yeah, the dogs And handlers will get more consistent with trial experience. But in the meantime, the damage is being done.  We have contact zones on the other obstacles and dogs still can miss them (even my Scottie has flown over a contact on occasion :-) and, yes, that isn't the performance we want or train for and there is risk there. But the risk/damage potential is so amplified on the teeter.  Saying the dog will be faulted for leaving early doesn't prevent it from happening, just like it doesn't prevent any of the other faulted performances.  The handler is "punished" with the faults, but the dog is physically punished.  I fully support NADAC's position regarding teeters, because it all boils down to the dogs and keeping them healthy and safe.
Vicki Storrs
Vicki Storrs