Author Topic: Dogs 8 or older question  (Read 3423 times)

mephalon

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Dogs 8 or older question
« on: October 26, 2013, 03:02:06 PM »
Do I have to run my 8 1/2 year old dog as a vet even though I already run her as skilled?  I thought as long as I was taking a 4" height break it was ok whether it was skilled or vet. 

Can someone clarify please.

Mary
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Sharon Nelson

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Re: Dogs 8 or older question
« Reply #1 on: October 26, 2013, 09:49:25 PM »
Do I have to run my 8 1/2 year old dog as a vet even though I already run her as skilled?  I thought as long as I was taking a 4" height break it was ok whether it was skilled or vet. 

Can someone clarify please.

Mary

They will have to use the Veteran's division on their 9th birthday and both Skilled AND Veterans on their 12th birthday.

Sharon
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mephalon

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Re: Dogs 8 or older question
« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2013, 03:24:28 AM »
So even though I already run skilled when she is 9 I also have to enter her as a vet which is the same requirement (skilled/vet) as when she is 12?



Mary P.

Carole & Pat Daggett

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Re: Dogs 8 or older question
« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2013, 07:55:38 PM »
Hi Mary,

As Sharon said, when your dog become 9 you must enter her as a Vet, and if your goal was to jump her 4" lower, you would enter her as a Proficient Vet.  Your dog's current jump height would not change (since she is in Skilled now), but you would have to take her out of Skilled unless you wanted to jump her 8" lower, as you would have to if she were age 12.  The requirement is for her to enter the Veteran Division at 9, so taking a 4" height break by putting her in Skilled does not meet that requirement.  I think that may be where the confusion lies - the rule is not that you have to take a 4" reduction in height when she becomes 9, but that she must be entered as a Vet.  Your choice is then whether to put her in Proficient or Skilled.  Remember that your Skilled and Proficient points are combined, so you would not "lose" any points by moving her to Proficient Vet, if that is the choice that you ultimately make.  Hope that explanation helps.

Carole Daggett

Sharon Nelson

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Re: Dogs 8 or older question
« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2013, 10:54:04 PM »
Hi Mary,

As Sharon said, when your dog become 9 you must enter her as a Vet, and if your goal was to jump her 4" lower, you would enter her as a Proficient Vet.  Your dog's current jump height would not change (since she is in Skilled now), but you would have to take her out of Skilled unless you wanted to jump her 8" lower, as you would have to if she were age 12.  The requirement is for her to enter the Veteran Division at 9, so taking a 4" height break by putting her in Skilled does not meet that requirement.  I think that may be where the confusion lies - the rule is not that you have to take a 4" reduction in height when she becomes 9, but that she must be entered as a Vet.  Your choice is then whether to put her in Proficient or Skilled.  Remember that your Skilled and Proficient points are combined, so you would not "lose" any points by moving her to Proficient Vet, if that is the choice that you ultimately make.  Hope that explanation helps.

Carole Daggett

Great answer, Carole.  Well done and thanks for taking the time to answer.

Sharon
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mephalon

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Re: Dogs 8 or older question
« Reply #5 on: October 28, 2013, 03:43:31 AM »
Thanks for the explanation.  Does a proficient vet get the same time as skilled? 
Mary P.

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Re: Dogs 8 or older question
« Reply #6 on: October 28, 2013, 06:03:00 AM »
Okay, let me add another wrinkle to this. My dog will turn nine tomorrow. We have always run as proficient, Vet Handler. Not exactly sure how to handle this, but I think I am going to enter future trials as a Vet dog with a Vet Handler at proficient, and let the Trial Secretary figure it out. But, how would you describe my situation?

Fred
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Amy McGovern

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Re: Dogs 8 or older question
« Reply #7 on: October 28, 2013, 07:20:20 AM »
I moved my girl to skilled vet and she loves it!  I love that this means she can run longer and with less chance of injury.  No other venue (that I've tried or know of) lets us do this with our dogs so early.  When I first considered it (when our oldest dog turned 7), I kept thinking it would be silly and she would hate it.  Our trainer convinced me to try it for one show and the dog came off the course smiling.  That was all the proof I needed and now I'm a firm believer :)  We now have done it for both of the older dogs.

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Re: Dogs 8 or older question
« Reply #8 on: October 28, 2013, 09:06:12 AM »
The requirement of vet always confused me if the jump height was already lowered by running skilled.  For the description I will use the 16" P dog.  If they are running skilled, they run ALL classes at the 12" level both jumping and non-jumping classes.  This gives the dogs a bit of a time break in the non-jumping classes.  However, the "vet" division does not allow for that.  The only change is in the "jumping" classes.  In all other classes they run in their proficient division.  So as a dog that runs skilled their entire career, they actually lose out when they are forced to the "vet" division, unless they jump 8" lower than their proficient height.  For some dogs at age 9 that drop is not necessary.  Since you can't do both proficient and skilled in the same weekend, it might force some people to only do "non-jumping" classes in one weekend to go skilled/vet and "jumping" classes only on others so they can go Vet/proficient to avoid the 8" height drop in the jumping classes.
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Re: Dogs 8 or older question
« Reply #9 on: October 29, 2013, 07:20:57 AM »
The requirement of vet always confused me if the jump height was already lowered by running skilled.  For the description I will use the 16" P dog.  If they are running skilled, they run ALL classes at the 12" level both jumping and non-jumping classes.  This gives the dogs a bit of a time break in the non-jumping classes.  However, the "vet" division does not allow for that. 


Ok, now you have me confused, as to where you see an issue.  :)    I have a dog who measures into the 16" class by a fraction of an inch. I prefer not to jump her nearly an inch over her withers, so I enter her in the Skilled category. That allows her to jump 12" in the classes with jumps, and I believe (as you say above) that she also gets 12" time in the non-jumping classes. Since she's only 4 years old, her *division* in all classes is Standard. (If your dog's not a Veteran, and you're not a Junior Handler or a Veteran Handler, then the dog is in the Standard division.)

 When she becomes a Veteran dog, her category will still be Skilled for all classes.  Her *division* for the non-jumping classes, as I understand the rules, remains "Standard" - last I heard, there isn't a veteran DOG category for those classes, only a veteran HANDLER category. So she still gets whatever time break she's been getting all along.
 In the *jumping* classes, her division will be 12" veteran dog. As such, she will jump 8", and will get 12" Veteran times.  Again, she'll still be in the 12" division, Skilled category, for the non-jumping classes - she gets the same time break she always did. 

 



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Vicki Storrs

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Re: Dogs 8 or older question
« Reply #10 on: October 29, 2013, 10:41:59 AM »
The requirement of vet always confused me if the jump height was already lowered by running skilled.  For the description I will use the 16" P dog.  If they are running skilled, they run ALL classes at the 12" level both jumping and non-jumping classes.  This gives the dogs a bit of a time break in the non-jumping classes.  However, the "vet" division does not allow for that. 


Ok, now you have me confused, as to where you see an issue.  :)    I have a dog who measures into the 16" class by a fraction of an inch. I prefer not to jump her nearly an inch over her withers, so I enter her in the Skilled category. That allows her to jump 12" in the classes with jumps, and I believe (as you say above) that she also gets 12" time in the non-jumping classes. Since she's only 4 years old, her *division* in all classes is Standard. (If your dog's not a Veteran, and you're not a Junior Handler or a Veteran Handler, then the dog is in the Standard division.)

 When she becomes a Veteran dog, her category will still be Skilled for all classes.  Her *division* for the non-jumping classes, as I understand the rules, remains "Standard" - last I heard, there isn't a veteran DOG category for those classes, only a veteran HANDLER category. So she still gets whatever time break she's been getting all along.
 In the *jumping* classes, her division will be 12" veteran dog. As such, she will jump 8", and will get 12" Veteran times.  Again, she'll still be in the 12" division, Skilled category, for the non-jumping classes - she gets the same time break she always did.
I think the problem is that they DON'T want to jump 8", they want to stay at 12", so the only way to do that is to switch from skilled to proficient. So will they be proficient 16" dog in the non-jumping classes (since you say there isn't a vet dog class in those categories) --and have to make a
Lower time in those classes than they did as a skilled 12" dog --and a proficient 12" vet dog in the jumping classes?
I don't know the answer just hope I'm clarifying the question.
Vicki Storrs
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Rebecca Kriz

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Re: Dogs 8 or older question
« Reply #11 on: October 29, 2013, 11:07:31 AM »
I think their issue is if you were running Skilled the whole time, possibly for a time break in the games classes in addition to the height break, by changing to Proficient Vet to have just a 4" jump height break, you don't get more time in the games.  They might not feel their dog needs or wants an 8" break at that age.  I don't know what the solution to that would be or if anyone would have that problem, but that's what I'm seeing.
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Re: Dogs 8 or older question
« Reply #12 on: October 29, 2013, 01:00:36 PM »
I think their issue is if you were running Skilled the whole time, possibly for a time break in the games classes in addition to the height break, by changing to Proficient Vet to have just a 4" jump height break, you don't get more time in the games.  They might not feel their dog needs or wants an 8" break at that age.  I don't know what the solution to that would be or if anyone would have that problem, but that's what I'm seeing.

That is exactly my thought. 
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Linda W. Anderson

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Re: Dogs 8 or older question
« Reply #13 on: October 29, 2013, 02:05:46 PM »
I think their issue is if you were running Skilled the whole time, possibly for a time break in the games classes in addition to the height break, by changing to Proficient Vet to have just a 4" jump height break, you don't get more time in the games.  They might not feel their dog needs or wants an 8" break at that age.  I don't know what the solution to that would be or if anyone would have that problem, but that's what I'm seeing.

That is exactly my thought.

I would appreciate some clarification on this as well.  I have a 7 yr. old dog who measures 20" and is currently jumping 16" in Proficient since I am a veteran handler.   I would prefer to continue to jump her at 16" since she is very athletic and is comfortable at that height.  My question is whether or not I will have to drop her to 12" when she turns 8 next year.  I believe I will be allowed to continue at 16" as long as she is in Proficient, but would like confirmation.
Linda
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Sharon Nelson

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Re: Dogs 8 or older question
« Reply #14 on: October 29, 2013, 02:46:28 PM »
I think their issue is if you were running Skilled the whole time, possibly for a time break in the games classes in addition to the height break, by changing to Proficient Vet to have just a 4" jump height break, you don't get more time in the games.  They might not feel their dog needs or wants an 8" break at that age.  I don't know what the solution to that would be or if anyone would have that problem, but that's what I'm seeing.

That is exactly my thought.

Yes, I think that is what they are trying to say.  That they want the time break in all classes, but only a 4" height break.  I understand that request........ except I have to take the hard line side and say that if the dog needs extra time for classes with no jumps and they are only running "on the flat" and can't make time, that maybe it is in the dog's best interest to "have" to enter Skilled Veterans and take the 8" jump height break.  A dog that can't make time on the flat might need to take a maximum jump height break for the sake of their body.

Sharon
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