Concern for NADAC agility in the Northeast

[TheQuestKnight]

Hi Lin,

You've been around the sport for a while and understand all that it takes to be successful . . .

2 hours to a trial and folks won't support it???  What in the wide, wide world of sports is wrong with them???

2 hours would be "in our backyard" for us!!!

Maybe I'm just a weird duck of sorts; but I and mine have had some of our very best and most memorable runs in adverse conditions . . .

Perhaps it's the "reaching down", hoping to find all that you're not quite sure that you have . . . and finding that when the pressure is on, you and your partner are more than equal to the challenge . . .

VIVA THE GREAT OUTDOORS!!!

Old 60s/70s radical that I am . . . perhaps it's time to start boycotting indoor trials on fake, artificial surfaces!!!

Al & Pellinore in Ohio

 

[MichelleWhall]

We are one of the clubs hosting indoor trials in New England.  The reason for this is that it is what the exhibitors want in our area.  It was hold indoor trials or compete against the indoor trials of other venues.  This would have ultimately lead to a steep decline in people competing in Nadac in this area.  Many people in this area will compete indoors weekend after weekend regardless of the venue.

The weather is so undependable here that you never know what it will be! 

We run on the same surface that the New England Patriots play on.

I would say that fifty percent of the exhibitors come to our trials because they like the facility and the amenities it provides (indoor baths, lots of crating, wifi, etc). 

When I trial secretary for our local agility club it is at an outdoor location and the numbers drop considerably.  This is definitely because it is outside.

As far as Nadac trial numbers declining in the Northeast, we are only seeing it slightly at our trials.  It is true that the trial numbers are not what they were 8 years ago but that is due to the number of trials on any given weekend and I believe it is more an effect of the economy. 

At each trial we also see three to five people who are new to Nadac at each trial!

We have had four trials this year and the smallest trial was 675 runs for the weekend.  Two trials filled at 1,000 runs for the weekend. 

I am not sure about the New York area but New England is an area where you can trial in 4 venues within a 3 hour drive on any weekend.  Exhibitors are choosing which trials they want to go to.

Michelle
Addicted to Agility

[A Jussero]

Here in North Dakota we annually host the only NADAC trial within 300 miles.  The 300 mile club used to hold 3/year and is now down to one, possibly two.  Next closest is over 500 miles.  The Virtual runs will probably end up being our only choice.  In addition to weather, vandalism is also a severe problem here in the oil patch, our club trailer was bashed the first night we had it outside.  Wish we could find a way to bring more trials closer---!

Ann J

[dogrsqr]

Actually there are very few outdoor trials of any venue in the midwest.  Of the trials that are outdoors there is probably more USDAA than any other venue.  Several NADAC maybe one or two CPE.  I don't think there is even one outdoor AKC trial anymore. 

I think the indoor craze was mostly started by the businesses or clubs that hold classes indoors.  It is way easier for them to hold their trials indoors because they already have the space and the equipment in the space. 

Unfortunately many people don't think their dog will stay in the ring so prefer to trial indoors.  I don't understand this at all.  If your dog likes agility it should want to stay and play with you.  Just because you're indoors doesn't mean it's ok for your dog to leave the ring. 

Hopefully our club will continue to hold trials outdoors.  Even if we get fewer entries the expenses are less.  We really don't get enough additional entries when we're indoors to make up for the much bigger expenses.

We actually put out a survey at our winter trial and one of the questions we asked was for people to rank where they'd rather play agility.  Indoors on dirt, indoors on mats, indoors on turf, outdoors on grass.  I think it was really sad for me to see that indoors on mats tied for most preferrable with indoors on turf.   So sad that people seem to rank their comfort above their dogs comfort.

Gina Pizzo

[ramonastirling]

Just one other slant to think of on the indoor/outdoor question.  I have some mobility issues and run as a disabled handler.  At one time I averaged at least 2 weekends per month.  Over the past year this has dropped to 1 or 2 trials per year but I think we are going to be able to increase that again.  I am looking at possible trials and considering mostly indoor ones ( here it is usually in a horse arena) for 2 reasons:  a) I am nervous about running on grass as it is somewhat uneven and I find even walking across a field etc hard on my back and knees b) indoors often seems to require less distance to the washrooms, benching to ring etc.  In an ideal world a lovely summer day on smooth grass would be perfect but for me, the worry about losing my balance by hitting an uneven patch of ground and the extra footsteps added into the day as I go back and forth do count for something.  Sitting at a conformation show this weekend and watching people, I notice I am not the only one getting older and moving a little gimpy by the end of the weekend.  For my dogs, they are happy indoors or out as long as we get to play.  I am thinking about trying a local show outside as my first show "back" and am really thinking hard due to the footing for me.

[Lin Battaglia]

Hi Al !
All our venues here in northern Nevada...USDAA, AKC, CPE, UKC and ASCA have always competed outside, even for obedience. The only ones indoors have always been the conformation dogs. Playing indoors or outdoors would definitely have an effect on the cost per run. We know some of you guys in the east pay $15-$28 per run. Mdt-AA offers a flat $10 per run, no fancy packages, everyone gets the same discounted price. I'm sure our venue rental is lower. With the economy as it is now we try to charge less. For our "at home" trials we drive 1 to 1 1/2 hours, for "away" events we drive 2 to 4 to 6 hours one way for trials in California, Oregon and Idaho. Ya gotta love the sport. But I agree being outside in the elements and unfenced is part of the sport and training. Our surface is usually grass.


LinB
Mdt-AA LLC
Reno/Sparks, NV.

[CheriMo]

The assumption is that the drop in entries is because of location or venue. That IS an assumption. The only way to know whether venue or location is actually the reason for the drop in participation is to survey competitors who used to come to the trials but no longer come and find out why they no longer come to the trial. It might not have anything to do with where the trial is held. Regardless, until something is done to actually ascertain the reason competitors are not coming to NADAC trials, all this is just speculation. Only the people who no longer compete can tell us why they no longer compete. Once the main reason is discovered, then it can be addressed (hopefully it's something that can be addressed).

[Anne Etherton]

Ups and Downs club in the San Diego area just hosted a Friday afternoon, Saturday-Sunday trial this past weekend.  It was one of the most heavily attended NADAC local shows in a long time.  They allowed day of show entries and came very close to the 500 run limit on Sunday.  All local trials are outdoors except for one that we host that is in a covered arena (not enclosed).

Anne

[dmadrid]

Here in TX, almost all of our shows are indoors.  With the TX summers as brutal as they are, they really have to be.  A couple of (non-NADAC) clubs do outdoor night trials in the summer, and Run As One (new NADAC club) just put on an outdoor show over Memorial Day weekend.  Unfortunately, our summers are so hot that you really can't run during the day... it just wouldn't be safe for dogs or humans. 

So, down here at least, it is not an indoor/outdoor issue.  We all use the same horse barns for our shows.  As far as entries go, my club has noticed a drop off in NADAC entries.  Every year entries are lower and our NADAC show loses more money than it did the year before.  I don't know if other NADAC clubs are experiencing anything similar.  There has also been a drop in USDAA entries in Central TX (some shows have been cancelled due to low entries).  On the flip side, AKC shows are filling up and have waiting lists. 

I think for a lot of folks down here, they are choosing to go to local shows... indoor/outdoor is not an issue for us, but venue (NADAC/USDAA/AKC) and local/out-of-town is.  The economy is not that great, and folks have to make choices... and since there are so many AKC shows that don't require a ton of driving/an overnight stay, I think they are drawing bigger entries.

As our entries continue to drop, I do worry about my club's ability to continue to offer a NADAC show... it is getting harder and harder to afford it.  =(

-Danielle

[amanda_williams_98@yahoo]

@Shirlene. We have mostly outdoor trials a parks in San Diego. City allows one RV to stay on site for security. So we don't have to put equipment away on Saturday night.

[Amy McGovern]

We trial mostly indoors but it is because the weather in the midwest is so variable.  It was 95 yesterday and was 75 and thundering in just minutes last night.  I know lots of local people who won't show outdoors here because of the heat and we are included in that.  When we lived in New England, almost all our shows were outdoors but the heat wasn't nearly the issue it is here. 

Also, I'm one of the people seeing NADAC trial attendance decline (even at the indoor shows!).  We regularly travel 6 hours to show.  At those and our local shows, numbers seem to be down.  I wish I knew why!

-Amy

[Maureen deHaan]

The assumption is that the drop in entries is because of location or venue. That IS an assumption. The only way to know whether venue or location is actually the reason for the drop in participation is to survey competitors who used to come to the trials but no longer come and find out why they no longer come to the trial. It might not have anything to do with where the trial is held. Regardless, until something is done to actually ascertain the reason competitors are not coming to NADAC trials, all this is just speculation. Only the people who no longer compete can tell us why they no longer compete. Once the main reason is discovered, then it can be addressed (hopefully it's something that can be addressed).

I think that in our area this is not people who are no longer competing...but they are ONLY competing at ONE indoor site by a club (technically 2 clubs but same group of people)  that hosts 10 trials a year and many of those trials are 3 out of 4 weekends in a one month period.. so why should people go to the outdoor locations when they can go to the indoor ones?  When my (or another group's) small outdoor trial is sanwiched in between 2 weekends of indoor trials, people go to the indoor site ...they are no longer attending the outdoor trials and that is hurting the smaller groups.

A big part of the problem in the northeast is that people will not travel more than 1.5 - 2 hours for a trial - so when a club is allowed to host so many trials it takes away the options to go elsewhere.

As someone else mentioned about disability etc - I totally respect that - but that is really the minority - I too am a minority b/c I have decided that Soccer turf is not a good footing for my dogs - they slip all over the place - I choose to NOT attend trials on soccer turf.  I also don't like the fact that the energy (sometimes quite negative) & barking  inside these arenas builds so much and is held in by a roof - that it affects my dogs - one it makes more reactive and the other it hypes up so much she can't focus (no licking or blinking for her Sharon!) - so if all the trials in the Northeast go to those areas, I am out of luck ...

Good think I just bought an RV so I can support trials outdoor or indoor trials held on good footing for my dogs! 

[Leanne]

........ We know some of you guys in the east pay $15-$28 per run. .....
LinB
Mdt-AA LLC
Reno/Sparks, NV.

WOW!!!  I can't say that I travel all that much.  But all the trials I have attended in the east (MD, DE, NJ, PA, VA, NC)  The cost per run has been between $8-$12.    Where are these $15-$28 runs taking place?

[Maureen deHaan]

Not sure where you hear that we pay 15-28 per run... that is just not true...

$15 per run Day of Show or entries AFTER closing date - but most trials go between 10-14 per run AND most of us offer multi dog / multi run discounts...I trial most weekends with one dog (sometimes 2) and I get pay 10 per run given multi run discounts.

15 per run DOS is b/c people around here seem to be fair weather players...if the weather is good then they show up and want to run...also people wait till the last minute to enter - again....if we don't know ahead of time what our numbers are we may not be able to hold the trials and pay the costs.. people waiting till the last minute and then expecting clubs to accommodate them is asking a bit much I think... used to be if you didn't over night your entry - you didn't get in...remember those days??

[Sheila & the Shelties]

The assumption is that the drop in entries is because of location or venue. That IS an assumption. The only way to know whether venue or location is actually the reason for the drop in participation is to survey competitors who used to come to the trials but no longer come and find out why they no longer come to the trial. It might not have anything to do with where the trial is held. Regardless, until something is done to actually ascertain the reason competitors are not coming to NADAC trials, all this is just speculation. Only the people who no longer compete can tell us why they no longer compete. Once the main reason is discovered, then it can be addressed (hopefully it's something that can be addressed).

I think what CherieMo said is true.  There may be various reasons why the number of competitors have dropped, and the reason may be different for different geographical areas.  You would have to ask the people who are not attending.  I know the economy is part of it, but I'm sure it's not the entire explanation.  While I can see the attractions of indoor venues (weather, uneven temperatures, running surface, no shade or EZ Up required), I prefer outdoor trials.  And I do understand the footing issues.  I was at an outdoor trial once that had a big divot in the course area.  I planned to handle one way, and had to change my plan because of the hole in the area.  Someone had already tripped in it and fallen that day.   But still...I prefer outdoor trials...