Concern for NADAC agility in the Northeast

[Cris Larson]

Conversely, I've known some dogs that are true "NADAC dogs" and do wonderfully on fast, open courses where they can blast away, but have a hell of a time on a tight, technical Masters Jumpers course.  We don't pity those dogs and handlers for choosing a venue where they can have fun *and* be successful.  It should go both ways.

Best,
Danielle

Danielle pretty much described my Rottie, Lars with this phrase. He is a 5 - 7 YPS high speed freight train and we will be lucky to ever get out of AKC open agility. If I handle him for keeping the bars up, he has off courses. And if I handle him have no off courses, then he hulk smashes his way through the jumps.

Even with his speed, we're having a hard time transitioning to the times that Elite requires. If we have one flub, we're done. We've been in Elite for a couple of months now and it seems like Elite tunnelers is where we consistently Q. I will say that there isn't anything wrong with being a little competitive in this sport. I am competitive and I have a dog who is brilliant, fast, and powerful when he is "on." It does sting a little bit when you have a very talented dog and you consistently don't Q. Granted, Lars is my first agility dog and he has taught me a lot. But like someone said, if I was just doing it for the fun of it...then my back yard and drop in classes would totally suffice instead of actual trials.

[patenaudelm]

Yes, I agree it's a training issue, don't get me wrong - I certainly don't care if I place - that's an added bonus    and for someone to say that I'm just in it for the NATCH or V-NATCH is totally incorrect, but is there something wrong with having that has a goal?   

It took me almost 3 years to the date to get Suzy's NATCH-2, (if I didn't enjoy doing it I certainly wouldn't have struggled to get those last Chances Qs).   In fact, Chances is one of my favorite classes.   If someone says Chances is not a technical course, they are full of bologne    You've got to be ON THE MONEY for your commands or you are in BIG TROUBLE...  I certainly enjoy NADAC or I wouldn't be doing it .    And, I compete in 4 venues with my border collie and 2 now with my 13 year old.     And, I am not cut-throat about having to qualify every time - my 13 year old went off course in her Novice Standard run last weekend and had the biggest grin on her face it was hysterical.   In fact, the only reason I dropped her to Novice as I said before was so she could have less jumps to take.   It's going to break my heart (and hers) when she cannot play anymore as she still springs off that start line trying to get that 13 year old, 50 pound body, to get what it used to do even 3 years ago, but she still comes off that finish line smiling and bouncing.   She's just not gonna willingly give it up and I'm going to have to make that judgement call for her safety.

My point was that it can be disheartening for people to go have the fun of having a beautiful run and then finding out they missed time by a second or less (and I've been there too) (maybe their goal for the weekend was to just get that one Q). 

You're exactly right Danielle, if we didn't have goals or want the Q's we wouldn't be out there competing to get that Q or Title or NATCH, CATCH, ADCH or MACH, we would be staying home playing at the training facility or in our own backyards.  I've got students who compete regularly and I've got students who don't care if they ever compete, however, they all get the same level of training from me.   I've also got students who only do AKC or NADAC or CPE or USDAA - that's entirely up to them.   I certainly don't hold it against them if they never run a NADAC course and poo poo NADAC, that's their preference, however, my classes concentrate on every venue and trust me there are a lot of serpentines, wraps, threadles, discriminations on my courses     I try to gear my classes for the week as to who is competing the following weekend and what venue they are doing.   Every venue has it plusses and minuses.

So let's not be judgemental when I say that making time can be disheartening for everyone (whether Elite, Open or Novice).   Everyone out that has some kind of goal or they wouldn't be out their "donating" their run money for that NQ.

Linda

[dogrsqr]

I don't think anyone used the word "pity". 

Training for accuracy with a fast dog is just as tough as training for speed with a accurate dog.  There are not a great many people who can put in the time to train well for all venues.  It is a tough thing to do and requires "tune-ups" when changing from venue to venue.

Believe me when I was a newbie to the sport I spent many weekends without getting a Q, and I'm right back there with my new dog, so yes I can understand.  I don't think anyone is judging anyone who likes to Q.  My point was only that speed is as much a training issue as any other part of agility. 

I will totally agree with those that have said the NADAC courses are much less technical which allows the dog to run faster.  If a dog is used to running technical sequences it will take them some time to realize they can stretch out.  That doesn't mean they won't get there, it just means they need some time to figure it out. 

Likewise when I go run USDAA I have to realize that my dog will need time to realize she can't just take whats in front of her.  I guess I just see it as a challenge.  That's the challenge that those courses will provide for me.

If you're only a second away from making time that can probably be made up with a push on the last line out of the course.

Gina Pizzo

[Sheila & the Shelties]

Can someone please define"technical" courses?  I have an idea of what people referring to, but can someone provide some definitions?  And if a course if not "technical", what is it called?

[Maureen deHaan]

I will totally agree with those that have said the NADAC courses are much less technical which allows the dog to run faster.  If a dog is used to running technical sequences it will take them some time to realize they can stretch out.  That doesn't mean they won't get there, it just means they need some time to figure it out. 

Not sure that NADAC courses are LESS technical - but they sure do have a lot more FLOW and fewer crappy angles the dogs have to navigate  and I am VERY thankful for that - for the longevity of my dogs (who are both built differently and run differently but are both meant to run NADAC style courses)

EX: with my fast dog I find the course challenges to be technical in a different sense =  different from the placement of jumps or angles I have to ask my dog to contort her body to do - its more about the technicalities of timing and drwaing the path -

[dmadrid]

I generally think of technical courses as courses that have a lot of tight turns and tricky bits ... elements might include wraps, unintuitive tunnel entrances, frequent turns and call-offs.... basically a course where the dog needs to stay in handler focus more than they can go into obstacle focus. 

If you've trained for it, they can be quite fun.  But, they are very different than what you might see, for example, in a fast, flowing touch-n-go course. 

Best,
Danielle