Author Topic: Ways to promote NADAC agility  (Read 5627 times)

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Re: Ways to promote NADAC agility
« Reply #15 on: June 22, 2012, 05:34:41 AM »
How is this for an idea?  Instructors offer local workshops (or 6 week classes) on "Speed and Motivation" and not make any reference to NADAC.    I have seen a lot of dogs (small dogs in particular) who never really open up their strides and run at other venues like AKC and USDAA, and it is especially noticeable on widely-spaced, straight jumps. 

Earlier this year, I realized my 2 Australian Terriers did not know how to run full-out AND jump well on straight aways because I never really trained it (I believe many small dogs have the same hole in their training and really struggle with jumping as a result). Prior to my recent shift to NADAC, I had been mostly competing in USDAA and some local AKC.  But over the past 4 months I've been participating in Silvia Trkman's on-line Agility Foundations class and through that process, both of my dogs learned how to run fast AND do agility at the same time, including running fast and jumping over widely-spaced straight jumps.  :)  Their YPS have definitely increased along with the level of fun we all have!   

Who would think doing a class with Silvia Trkman would lead me to NADAC, but it did!  The reason is because I had an opportunity to watch a bunch of dogs (a wide range of breeds, body types, sizes, and temperaments) work on developing foundation skills for European style courses.  After 4 months, it became apparent to me that very few breeds are built for or have the natural mind set to flourish on these types of courses, including my ATs.  And while my youngster Lil was very successful at USDAA, it was due to training since puppyhood and not any natural inclination.   

After attending NADAC trials 2 weekends in a row, and then watching videos of our runs, I believe my ATs are built (mind and body) for NADAC style courses, as are most dogs (breeds and mixed-breeds).  I also think NADAC style courses are naturally motivating to my dogs so I don't have to think about how to make my handling more dynamic to create excitement as I have had to do at times, like when an opener had dogs running 1.66 times around the same pinwheel (5 jumps) in the midst of multiple discriminations.  :o

I suspect there are a lot more people (like me) who are competing in other venues, who would be interested in increasing their dogs "speed and motivation" and YPS.  And I think if these teams had opportunities to balance their training by running some wide-open, NADAC style courses in practice and at occasional trials, it would translate to faster YPS in any venue.  My thinking is that once people see the value in training fast running on straight aways, they just might want to add NADAC trials to the mix of venues they compete in.

Of course, instructors would need to know how to teach a super fun "speed and motivation" workshop or class!

Dev Sperber, Jake and Lil
« Last Edit: June 22, 2012, 09:50:42 AM by Dev Sperber, Jake and Lil »

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Re: Ways to promote NADAC agility
« Reply #16 on: June 22, 2012, 07:49:23 AM »
For me, I think the economy has a lot to do with it.  When I started traveling to trials in 2002, I would go all over, KS, WI, IL for a trial and not think anything of it, and did this for years.  By 2008, things changed, the economy was bad and other venues were getting popular in this area (MN/Midwest).  I noticed a decrease in NADAC trials in this area at that time (some clubs closed and other didn't hold as many NADAC trials) and started showing more heavily in other venues (CPE and ASCA).  I don't show USDAA because of the jump heights and AKC does not allow us to play.

In 2009 stopped traveling so far to trials and stayed close to home MN/WI and occasionally IA.  Right now I'm primarily doing just MN/WI trials because of lack of available funding on my part and working a second job on the weekends.  I would love to travel to Lisa's ITZ trials, but can't afford to right now and really miss the traveling part of going to trials, I'm social and enjoy that aspect of it.

I am fortunate for all my past and current instructors have always promoted NADAC and it was the venue I started with, so I love it.  I don't always love some of the changes with it, but accept them and try to learn new things.  When I can only afford one trial and have to choose between the two I trial the most heavily in (NADAC/CPE), I enter depending on what titles/legs I need at that current moment in time.  Right now I am still traveling to WI to trial in NADAC and hopefully by next year I can travel further.

I have seen some people start with NADAC, earn a NATCH and not return, I'm not sure why.  Others I see start in other venues and are afraid of trying NADAC because they hear it's all about speed and distance and they are afraid their dog can't make time.  I tell them if my deaf dog can qualify and come in under time, their dog surely can, and I tell them how much fun the atmosphere is as well.  Some people are afraid to try new things and when they hear about hoops and barrels, they shy away from it.  I don't know anything about barrels and have never seen one, but I'd like to try it sometime and see what my dog can do.  I have to admit, I don't like a lot of change, but am willing to try new things at least once to see how it's done and if my dog likes it.  I entered a Weavers class just because it was part of a package price for a day and didn't expect anything, BUT she qualified....I really need to start trusting my dog.   :D

I'm not sure how to get more people to attend since there are more venues in agility than there were 10 years ago.  Lora's idea is a good one and I try to spread the word to new people as much as possible.  Maybe once the economy turns around a bit, we will see more people playing NADAC.

Deb and Savannah

bill fehn

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Re: Ways to promote NADAC agility
« Reply #17 on: June 24, 2012, 01:44:44 PM »
Gina,

You know what happened in this area better than I do. My granddaughter started at A-1. They held NADAC trials, so we started with NADAC. If she would have started training somewhere else we might have started with a different venue. A-1 closed, so NADAC lost both their trials and the students they feed into NADAC. From there she went to C & E. At the New Year's NADAC trial in 2008, there were 23 teams entered with connections to C & E. That is a potential of 276 runs. Not all 23 teams entered all the runs both days, but they still accounted for a lot of runs. Several were at their first trial. C&E closed and most of the 23 people who were at that 2008 trial have either quit or are competing in a different venue. I know less than 5 who still do NADAC. It is another closed training center that won't be feeding any new teams to NADAC.

I have a some newbies who come to my place to practice and on my recommendation, the first two who have entered trials have entered NADAC trials.

If those training centers are not replaced with others that promote NADAC, I don't see the numbers increasing.

Bill Fehn
MN

Sharon Nelson

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Re: Ways to promote NADAC agility
« Reply #18 on: June 24, 2012, 10:14:53 PM »
How is this for an idea?  Instructors offer local workshops (or 6 week classes) on "Speed and Motivation" and not make any reference to NADAC.    I have seen a lot of dogs (small dogs in particular) who never really open up their strides and run at other venues like AKC and USDAA, and it is especially noticeable on widely-spaced, straight jumps. 

Earlier this year, I realized my 2 Australian Terriers did not know how to run full-out AND jump well on straight aways because I never really trained it (I believe many small dogs have the same hole in their training and really struggle with jumping as a result). Prior to my recent shift to NADAC, I had been mostly competing in USDAA and some local AKC.  But over the past 4 months I've been participating in Silvia Trkman's on-line Agility Foundations class and through that process, both of my dogs learned how to run fast AND do agility at the same time, including running fast and jumping over widely-spaced straight jumps.  :)  Their YPS have definitely increased along with the level of fun we all have!   

Who would think doing a class with Silvia Trkman would lead me to NADAC, but it did!  The reason is because I had an opportunity to watch a bunch of dogs (a wide range of breeds, body types, sizes, and temperaments) work on developing foundation skills for European style courses.  After 4 months, it became apparent to me that very few breeds are built for or have the natural mind set to flourish on these types of courses, including my ATs.  And while my youngster Lil was very successful at USDAA, it was due to training since puppyhood and not any natural inclination.   

After attending NADAC trials 2 weekends in a row, and then watching videos of our runs, I believe my ATs are built (mind and body) for NADAC style courses, as are most dogs (breeds and mixed-breeds).  I also think NADAC style courses are naturally motivating to my dogs so I don't have to think about how to make my handling more dynamic to create excitement as I have had to do at times, like when an opener had dogs running 1.66 times around the same pinwheel (5 jumps) in the midst of multiple discriminations.  :o

I suspect there are a lot more people (like me) who are competing in other venues, who would be interested in increasing their dogs "speed and motivation" and YPS.  And I think if these teams had opportunities to balance their training by running some wide-open, NADAC style courses in practice and at occasional trials, it would translate to faster YPS in any venue.  My thinking is that once people see the value in training fast running on straight aways, they just might want to add NADAC trials to the mix of venues they compete in.

Of course, instructors would need to know how to teach a super fun "speed and motivation" workshop or class!

Dev Sperber, Jake and Lil

Great input!

Awesome to see "solutions" offered, and not just problems.

Sharon
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Re: Ways to promote NADAC agility
« Reply #19 on: June 25, 2012, 10:25:51 AM »
Those are great suggestions Dev.  Unfortunately we don't have many instructors in our area who actually run NADAC. 

We have one training school owner, Annelise Allan, who does occasionally have special workshops like these.  She has also brought us some EGC trials. .... and as long as I'm bringing up EGC let me say that I initially thought I would hate this concept, but now see it as a training tool and have even had FUN running it.  I still don't like EGC Hoopers (I don't like the lattice gate ring) and I'm not sure about Barrel racing yet, but I will continue to run EGC because I think it will help the speedy youngster and I get our act together. 

After thinking about this over the weekend I've thought of this whole situation from a different perspective.  There are many NADAC competitors out there who only run NADAC.  If we never cross over into other venues why would we expect anyone else to come and try NADAC? 

I did decide with my young dog to go back and do a little USDAA.  I've also run at a couple of ASCA trials (FEO since I don't want to jump her at 20").  At ASCA I can still train in the ring, and work on those elusive start line stays so an occasional trial at FEO is still worth it.  So far I don't think we've impressed too many people other than our one USDAA Novice Jumpers run where I basically layered 3/4 of the course.  Hopefully as we become a better team, and I'm still holding out hope for myself, we can go to other venues and illustrate how distance can be useful in any venue.  It is an alternative to getting turns with a fast dog without making them compromise their speed.

I think if some NADAC folks would be willing to occasionally enter some other venue and show some of the NADAC concepts to people who might not otherwise see them in action it may also be a way to generate interest in NADAC.

Gina Pizzo

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Re: Ways to promote NADAC agility
« Reply #20 on: June 25, 2012, 11:32:06 AM »
It is a good idea but the other venues are so different.  We primarily run NADAC as it is what I love but we also run teacup (TDAA) and it is so different that I can't really highlight how something we are doing well is because of NADAC.  I do say loud and clear how much we love NADAC though.  My older dog really isn't a fan of the 6-10' obstacle spacing in TDAA.  She wants NADAC spacing as she is a speed demon!  But I don't know that I've convinced anyone who hasn't already been to a NADAC show before.  Do you have specific ideas on how to do that?
Amy and the schnauzers

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Ways to promote NADAC agility
« Reply #21 on: June 25, 2012, 12:34:59 PM »
RuFF just started hosting Nadac trials in 2010 and have been very fortunate to have had increasing numbers at each event.

Our area is predominantly AKC so we first never try to schedule an event to close to the local AKC club's events.

We have tried to work hand in hand with local trainers in the area by suggesting they leave fliers or gift certificates for our raffles. We also try to make trainers understand that having more agility trials in the area no matter what the venue is a win win for everyone.

We promote our trials as being stress free and lots of fun. We use face book to promote our trials and attend local AKC events to promote also.

Making entering easy we have found also helps. More than 1/2 our entries are made thru Click 2 run and PayPal.

Day of shows have really helped to get a lot of the AKC people to try Nadac.

Since 2010 we have gone from averaging 500 entries a show to 700 so far in 2012. We just finished our last trial with over 800 runs and our novice classes are huge.

After conversing with a lot of our exhibitors we have found that they attend our events because they are fun. We go out of our way to make everyone welcome and always try to introduce ourselves to newbies to Nadac and make sure they know they can come to any RuFF member with any concerns or questions.

We are also constantly putting RuFF's name out there by selling RuFF shirts and hats because lots of people still don't know about Nadac and when people see RuFFies wearing these at other events they ask questions.

In the end we now have 2 trainers offering classes on distance skills for Nadac and are now promoting our events.

Don't know if any of this helps maybe we've just been lucky but I do know we have lots of fun :)
Robin Wilcher
RuFF agility

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Re: Ways to promote NADAC agility
« Reply #22 on: June 26, 2012, 03:06:08 AM »
RE: Amy's post and question:  "It is a good idea but the other venues are so different.....   But I don't know that I've convinced anyone who hasn't already been to a NADAC show before.  Do you have specific ideas on how to do that?"

I actually think TDAA and NADAC are complimentary because the obstacle specs and spacing are so different, I assume they feel like different games to most dogs.

What I would point out to TDAA competitors you know who are into training, is how great NADAC is for maximizing speed/fun, teaching dogs how to shift back and forth from handler to obstacle focus, and for training discriminations.  Of course, TDAA courses are a lot harder to do with a fast dog... but A LOT more fun too!  Granted not everyone is interested in having a super fast, wild ride with their dogs in TDAA or elsewhere, but you can spot the handlers who are... and those are the people most likely to enjoy the wild ride of NADAC too.

I think you might also be able to encourage some TDAA competitors with pokey dogs to try a little NADAC to see if the wide-open spacing encourages more speed/fun and enthusiasm from their dogs.

Dev Sperber
« Last Edit: June 26, 2012, 03:17:26 AM by Dev Sperber, Jake and Lil »

Sharon Nelson

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Re: Ways to promote NADAC agility
« Reply #23 on: June 26, 2012, 06:33:32 AM »
RuFF just started hosting Nadac trials in 2010 and have been very fortunate to have had increasing numbers at each event.

Our area is predominantly AKC so we first never try to schedule an event to close to the local AKC club's events.

We have tried to work hand in hand with local trainers in the area by suggesting they leave fliers or gift certificates for our raffles. We also try to make trainers understand that having more agility trials in the area no matter what the venue is a win win for everyone.

We promote our trials as being stress free and lots of fun. We use face book to promote our trials and attend local AKC events to promote also.

Making entering easy we have found also helps. More than 1/2 our entries are made thru Click 2 run and PayPal.

Day of shows have really helped to get a lot of the AKC people to try Nadac.

Since 2010 we have gone from averaging 500 entries a show to 700 so far in 2012. We just finished our last trial with over 800 runs and our novice classes are huge.

After conversing with a lot of our exhibitors we have found that they attend our events because they are fun. We go out of our way to make everyone welcome and always try to introduce ourselves to newbies to Nadac and make sure they know they can come to any RuFF member with any concerns or questions.

We are also constantly putting RuFF's name out there by selling RuFF shirts and hats because lots of people still don't know about Nadac and when people see RuFFies wearing these at other events they ask questions.

In the end we now have 2 trainers offering classes on distance skills for Nadac and are now promoting our events.

Don't know if any of this helps maybe we've just been lucky but I do know we have lots of fun :)
Robin Wilcher
RuFF agility

RuFF has been an ideal example of showing that FUN works!!  The enthusiasm for an area where there was "no" NADAC only a few years ago to now having bigger and bigger trials and people post and email about how much fun the trials were and that they will be back!  The KY/TN area has gone from nothing to 600-800 run trials in a very short time and that is due to what exhibitors are experiencing at the trials.... they go back to their friends and they spread the word.  The Ruff members spread the fun to everyone.

Sharon
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TheQuestKnight

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Re: Ways to promote NADAC agility
« Reply #24 on: June 26, 2012, 12:08:04 PM »
Perhaps "westerners" are accustomed to driving 3-4 or more hours to trial while we pampered mid-westerners and easterners are pathetically spoiled by having so much agility close to us on any given weekend.

However, the "I'll do yours if you'll do mine" approach sounds a lot like a teenager's libido speaking . . . and it didn't work then and I don't see it working now . . .

Where I am in northeast Ohio, AKC dominates, CPE is second, USDAA third, TDAA fourth, UKC is considered "Totally Weird" by the first four and NADAC is existent within 3 hours of us.

I don't have any dogs that are TDAA eligible, so I've not experienced TDAA first hand.  I have participated in AKC, CPE, USDAA and UKC events at one time or another.  IMHO, the course designs and course times facilitate the handling style that all instructors in our area teach.  They are handling styles that I would call "nagging" the dogs around the course. 

While NADAC sytle handling transitions very well into ALL of the above venues, for folks comfortable with their handling and their success in those venues is basically an anethema to introducing NADAC and/or NADAC style handling.

Many folks have the financial where-with-all to compete in several venues . . . many dogs are comfortable in several venues . . . after my 20+ years in agility, I and mine only do NADAC and harbor no public acrimony to the other venues . . .

For as much trialing as we do, we are willing to travel the 4-5+ hours that we need to travel to trial in NADAC . . .

Everyone has their own priorities . . . and depending on where one is located, they may be competing with 1, 2, 3 or more other venues for the local pool of exhibitor $$$.

If one needs to work around 1 other venue's events, that's pretty easy to do . . . add a second venue . . . and it becomes A LOT tougher . . . add a third, relatively popular venue, it becomes darn near impossible . . . there are only so many $$$ of disposable income in the potential exhibitor pool.

How do you change it?  To quote Corporal Klinger from M*A*S*H, "If I had that answer, I'd run for god." . . .

From my perspective, I don't like ANY jump heights higher than 16" for my BCs when they are young . . . or 12" when I'll be a VH in a few months.  I don't see the purpose in spread jumps or tires at bad angles or chutes that can tangle in a breeze . . . or an inconsistent teeter-totter . . . or slats . . . but that's ONLY for me and mine.

I enjoy the fact that NADAC's challenges predominantly challenge the teamwork between me and my dogs without stressing them physically . . . and I don't enjoy when challenges challenge my dog physically . . . we're not professional athletes by any means, so I appreciate that NADAC allows us to play safely.

I think that everyone's situation is unique . . . one needs to consider their area . . . the competion for exhibitor $$$ . . . the overall economy of the region . . . and go from there . . .

NADAC isn't going to "make it" in certain markets, given current economic conditions . . . that's a fact . . .

Understanding how to promote NADAC must, IMHO, also include the knowledge of when to NOT attempt to "force" NADAC upon a non-receptive "audience" because it would only serve to further cement the opinions of those folks that NADAC is what they DON'T want to do.

From a marketing standpoint, when folks are HAPPY with their choices in an area, it's unwise to try to create unhappy people out of happy ones . . . and then offering them an alternative.

One needs to wait for the opportunity to present itself . . . and it can NOT be "forced" . . . one just needs to be AWARE and act when the time is right . . .

I have experience helping an "upstart" agility venue get it's "foot in the door" when folks were frustrated with their available options . . . and that frustration is cyclical . . .

So, keep your ears open . . . and your mouth shut . . . until it's time "to move" . . . and then do it with authority, conviction and boldness . . .

Just my couple of coppers . . .

Al in Ohio
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Re: Ways to promote NADAC agility
« Reply #25 on: June 26, 2012, 05:40:50 PM »
My thought on the matter is that those of us who do participate in other venues must demonstrate that the handling skills that we learn and use as a NADAC participant do not impair ones ability to do other venues.  There does seem to be a mindset that if you train your dog to do distance then your dog cannot do close or be handled.

I remember one AKC trial that I attend where I injured a muscle and could not really run with my dogs as I would have normally done when working as a team with my dogs on an AKC course.  My first run was an Excellent Jumpers course with Charm jumping 20" on a course that no dog prior to us had qualified on (no 24" dog and no 20" dogs).  Charm ran the course well with taking direction for her impaired handler.  We then later that day also ran the Excellent Standard course and once again she qualified.  The participants were amazed and all wanted to know where I trained.  I knew the judge pretty well since we had been in classes together numerous times.  She had told me at the judges dinner that evening the discussion centered around my dog's ability to work at a distance and work as a team member.  The great fun was I came back the next day and double Q'd with Hope.  Charm ran well; she just knocked a double in one run and a triple in the other due to my lack of forward motion.  However, this instance as many others help promote and encourage people to take notice of those of us who work on speed, drawing the path instead of handling obstacle to obstacle, and creating team work.

In the mini seminars that I've done, the individuals who do come are interested in building their team work and want to learn distance.  They are amazed by end of the day some of the distance and team work they can build with their dogs.  I hope to provide them insight to help them in whatever venue they so choose to do.

As always us as competitors and instructors are NADAC's best way to promote NADAC.  I can only hope that if people see that one can be successful and that there is more to NADAC than just a dog working at a distance and running fast.

Cynthia Ernat
Chicago, IL
Charm, Hope, Ozzie, Abbi, Shazta, Kodi, Konfetti, Roux and Spice
Thanks,
Cynthia Ernat
Chicago, IL
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Re: Ways to promote NADAC agility
« Reply #26 on: June 26, 2012, 05:43:42 PM »
3 words sum it up.  Grow your own.

As Chris very astutely pointed out, areas where there are instructors promoting the venue, extolling the virtues of the venue, and teaching students right from the start about why this venue does what it does and what is unique / special about the venue are areas where the trials flourish.  I have had the opportunity to watch the run counts and local enthusiasm grow for NADAC in several 'pockets' of the country because a few of our venue's evangelists got out there and started spreading the word.  It doesn't always grow exponentially, but where NADAC is strong, it's because there are instructors bringing their students up to understand and appreciate all NADAC has to offer.

If you can't grow a following, you won't have a following because someone else is bringing those students up to think differently.  Yes, you can pick up a few event participants for a variety of reasons and you can get some people to travel a distance to come to your trials from time to time, but it's the students that make the trials fill on a consistent basis.

My $.02, from a guy who can't bring 'em up nearly fast enough!

Jeff Riedl
K9 Corps Agility
Greenville, WI
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Re: Ways to promote NADAC agility
« Reply #27 on: June 27, 2012, 03:38:44 PM »
Speaking as a member of a club that doesn't offer agility classes, only offers trials .... it's not really an option to "grow our own" thru instruction.  Our club also doesn't have a facility and our club members all have day jobs.  Some of us teach an evening class or two at one or another club that we belong to, but since they are not NADAC clubs it isn't wise to get too preachy about what venues to trial in.  We do like Cynthia, and teach all the skills necessary to play in any venue, distance included. 

I think it's also tough here in Minnesota because we have UKI, AKC, USDAA, ASCA, CPE and UKC agility in addition to NADAC.  We have at least one agility trial available within a short drive almost every weekend.

I also think that there are a whole lot of instructors in our area either ignoring NADAC or worse speaking negatively about it.  I agree with Cynthia that if we can show the uniformed that NADAC skills work for other venues that might draw some interest.

Gina Pizzo

Re: Ways to promote NADAC agility
« Reply #28 on: June 27, 2012, 05:57:44 PM »
As always us as competitors and instructors are NADAC's best way to promote NADAC.  I can only hope that if people see that one can be successful and that there is more to NADAC than just a dog working at a distance and running fast.

Cynthia Ernat

Amen!
Sheila & the Shelties

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Re: Ways to promote NADAC agility
« Reply #29 on: June 27, 2012, 10:34:44 PM »
This idea isn't exactly promoting NADAC but might help in a very round-a-bout way.  A friend and I have taken classes with our new dogs at a facility that teaches all venues and very supportive of NADAC.  The distance we both travel to the classes is 1 1/4 hours each way for me, and 2 hours each way for my friend. There is an instructor much closer and available at more convenient hours for us both, but she only competes in AKC.  However, the good news is the instructor is very accommodating and constantly asks us "How is it done in NADAC?"  Now she suggested that we provide some sample courses for her so she can set up practice sessions for us both that will be more like what we will face at NADAC trials.  I love that she is open to doing this for us.  Perhaps one of these days we'll encourage her to try NADAC again.  This would be working the "promoting NADAC" in reverse, but what the heck?  It's a win win for everyone.  She gets a couple more students and we get individual attention without traveling such a long distance.

Betsie Corwin
Oakdale, CA
Betsie Corwin
Oakdale, CA