Author Topic: Pep rally for a northeast championships!  (Read 4401 times)

Vicki Storrs

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Re: Pep rally for a northeast championships!
« Reply #30 on: March 31, 2016, 05:06:12 PM »
Dear Ms/mrZ or may I call you Foomin?  I will now say Ha ha, because, yes I intended that as a joke. That is a funny "call sign"!  I would LOVE to hear the story behind it!  But is that how you took it initially?  It is So Easy to take offense when we're reading the typed word. We all have to remember that, both as a poster and as a reader. Most people do Not intend to offend, so I find it easier on my own sanity to just assume that there is no ill intent. And if they Did intend to offend, well, then they can just be disappointed in me. :-)
I don't think Anybody had a problem with you looking for people to suggest possible new locations for champs. I live in VA so Yay for a site closer than IL!  However NADAC Does have specific requirements, the basics of which Sharon kindly spelled out, as much as she could--arena surface being something which NADAC is puts huge emphasis on but it can't be "spelled out."  Many/most do not correlate at all with either local clubs requirements or even other venues championship requirements. So when someone suggests a site that states on its website link that it's arena is too small, I went ahead and commented on that. Not that anyone was wrong to mention it, but no sense in people, especially NADAC "brass" wasting their time checking on it when it doesn't meet the minimums.
I have only been to Champs twice--IL in 2013 and 2015. I could be wrong, but I didn't consider it as being "hosted" by any local clubs--it seems like a NADAC production, with support from EVERYONE. I had such a good time in 2013 I encouraged others to try it in 2015...I think there were at least 6 newbies from this area who went in 2015 and had such a good time several are making plans to drive to Utah this year!  I certainly hope you can make it to Champs in the future and I hope you have a Fantastic time. And I hope I get to share a laugh with you, wherever it is!
Vicki Storrs
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Foomin Z

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Re: Pep rally for a northeast championships!
« Reply #31 on: March 31, 2016, 05:24:36 PM »
It's not like human names get called at the gate, only the dog's! I am used to it.

Champs may be a NADAC production, I am still interested in providing links to possible locations. It is not my job to inquire about footing. Like I said before, hidden gems may be found.

I had another thought. Must it be dirt? There has been such a surge in using indoor sports complexes for agility trials in the northeast. Now when I look for trials to enter and I see it listed as "indoors," it is at a sports facility more often than not. Rhode Island's been "leading" the way in that. Their location has a cool glass second floor from which to watch the action below. However, I have also heard it can be difficult to get this type of place when weather is cooler because the outdoor soccer leagues take preference over dog shows indoors. But this style of facility may open up more options for locations.

MoabDiane

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Re: Pep rally for a northeast championships!
« Reply #32 on: March 31, 2016, 06:09:23 PM »
Not offended by the "rebel" comment....and have stated MY opinion.  That was all.

And just for the record:  I don't think having Champs in a "NADAC desert" is a problem.  This is the second year it has been held in Utah, and unless Sharon or another NADAC guru comes to Moab, there are NO - as in, none, nada, zip, zilch! - NADAC trials in Utah.  Anywhere.  I'm it.  And I'm 225 miles away from the Champs site.  (and thankful it is so close, definitely!)

Sure, it helps to have "local" help.  But NADAC folks always pitch in, and wherever Champs are held, there are people willing to make it work, from the top on down. 

Back to your regularly scheduled programming....
diane


Chris Nelson

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Re: Pep rally for a northeast championships!
« Reply #33 on: March 31, 2016, 07:17:24 PM »
Everybody has some good points and I'm glad we've stayed civil in what should be a nice civil conversation.   

We really appreciate any new ideas for sites.  Nothing is taken for granted in the helpful information department.

Its definite that some sites won't meet our requirements.  But we won't know that until we check.

So keep the ideas coming and if we get a good amount of people all suggesting the same place we'll look into it further :)



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KarissaKS

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Re: Pep rally for a northeast championships!
« Reply #34 on: March 31, 2016, 07:25:03 PM »

TDAA champs were fun. DOCNA champs were fun. CPE champs were fun, but none increased attendance at local/regional trials.

CPE in the upper midwest absolutely exploded the first year that CPE Nationals came to MN. Honestly, that's when NADAC started to dwindle in this region because people jumped ship for CPE and never came back. We also see much higher attendance at USDAA trials in years where Cynosports is not 2000+ miles away. AKC numbers are pretty steady, can't say I noticed a change this past year qualifying for Tulsa vs the year before in Reno (I knew I wasn't going to Reno, but I still qualified my dog anyhow).

In general, I feel that the location of an organization's national/championship competition does tend to have an effect on the local trial numbers. I know people who trialed more to qualify for Champs in Springfield (myself included), but the numbers were not high enough to make a difference and those were people who already did NADAC. I can't think of a single person in my area who started in or came back to NADAC for the purpose of attending Championships.

There are an astonishing number of people that I talk to at USDAA and AKC trials who used to compete in NADAC. Most of them appear to have stopped back during the time when the teeter was taken away and wouldn't even consider coming back due to the changes that have happened since then. People just have too many options to choose from in this area and they aren't choosing NADAC.

I recently lost my local club -- which is the primary place I attended NADAC trials (up to 10 a year in previous years) -- trials that averaged about 120-160 runs per trial day, so I'm sure you can understand why they are no longer around. With Champs all the way out in Utah this year I'm not worried about qualifying my dogs. I plan to go to a trial over Memorial Day weekend, but that might be my only NADAC trial of the year because my traveling time and money go to other organizations right now. And that's a bummer, because Kaiser is a NADAC dog through and through -- he hates AKC and can't even play in USDAA because of the jump heights.
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Maureen deHaan

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Re: Pep rally for a northeast championships!
« Reply #35 on: April 01, 2016, 10:03:03 AM »
It's not like human names get called at the gate, only the dog's! I am used to it.

Champs may be a NADAC production, I am still interested in providing links to possible locations. It is not my job to inquire about footing. Like I said before, hidden gems may be found.

I had another thought. Must it be dirt? There has been such a surge in using indoor sports complexes for agility trials in the northeast. Now when I look for trials to enter and I see it listed as "indoors," it is at a sports facility more often than not. Rhode Island's been "leading" the way in that. Their location has a cool glass second floor from which to watch the action below. However, I have also heard it can be difficult to get this type of place when weather is cooler because the outdoor soccer leagues take preference over dog shows indoors. But this style of facility may open up more options for locations.

I am not sure of the foot requirement HAVING to be dirt - but I can say that the entries may suffer. Many people - me included - will not run on turf (honestly - I don't like the surface in RI - My dog slips on it and she has run on it a few times at different points in the last 8 years (and I see a lot of other dogs not able to keep their legs under them and their handlers don't recognize it as such)

 I would not spend the money & time  it costs to attend Champs on an unknown artificial surface - heck I won't even put out $ for an unknown surface for trials in my "area" (which includes a 5 hour driving radius) - grass and dirt for my team only

I can't imagine that Sharon would want dogs running on turf for so many days if she felt that the surface in Springfield, Il was tiring the dogs out (I do recall her saying this somewhere)  . I for one love the surface in Springfield - although I did notice its decline since 2013 - Kiva put up some of her fastest DRI runs at the 2015 Champs.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2016, 10:07:04 AM by Maureen deHaan »
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TheQuestKnight

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Re: Pep rally for a northeast championships!
« Reply #36 on: April 01, 2016, 10:49:57 AM »
I cannot say with 100% certainty; but I'm pretty dang sure that field turf, horse stall matting and RB rubber surfaces are all on the unacceptable running surfaces list.............................they were for us and ours for many years...................................

Please be aware that the following are my OPINIONS.....................and although I do not intend to offend anyone, I AM a "sarcastic snot".....................and some folks can't see the humor through the sarcasm, so if I come across as Beavis' buddy, so be it....................I've been called worse to my face................

I think that any venue that locates it's Championships, Nationals, Regionals or other major event in an area in hopes of boosting interest in their venue is, in most circumstances, throwing good money after bad.....................it simply isn't going to work.

My case in point.....................a 2008 NADAC FunRaiser in Ohio that Lisa Lautermilch worked long and hard to put together.........................and Sharon, Becky, Arlene Courtney and others brought the whole shootin' match to Upper Sandusky, Ohio.  Well, the 8 or 9 of us that attended that FunRaiser had a BLAST!!!!!!!!!!!!  We and our dogs got to spend time with Sharon & Becky, we ate well, we had live music in the evening to listen to, our dogs had FUN courses to run; but without seeing the numbers, NADAC took a financial BATH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

...................................and it did NOT do one thing to boost interest in NADAC in Ohio...........................

IMHO, Championships should NEVER be held out as a "carrot" for a region that is particularly supportive of the venue..................................that only serves to encourage competition between regions.....................and all too often, that competition can get down-right NASTY...................which isn't good for anyone!

Back in the good ol' days.......................there are probably still a few of you that remember 30 inch jumps, the crossover, the sliding board, the water jump and so on.........................teams that got into Championship/National events were the "creme de la creme" and REALLY had to EARN their way in by near flawless performances in a VERY few trials.

As agility grew with new venues, new ideas and many new exhibitors..........................I honestly feel...........................looking back with a very critical, BRITISH eye, here in America, we've "dumbed down" the sport.  OK.....................that is NOT necessarily a bad thing; because more people and dogs were able and are able to enjoy it.  However, titles, awards and the ability to enter championship level events became far too easy due to the number of trials.................................and the opportunities that teams had to qualify for those events.................................but; in general, the entry requirements also became more lax...........................rather than more stringent to reflect the increased opportunities.

This forum is for NADAC topics, so I feel that it's inappropriate to compare NADAC to whatever other venues choose to do.

For as long as I've been involved with NADAC, NADAC has highlighted several very important skills...................the most important of which is TEAMWORK, followed by the ability to work at distance and speed................................and their course design facilitates those skills.

For me, NADAC Championships is truly defined by SuperStakes.............................everything else is pretty much "fluff" because SuperStakes embodies the best of the best that NADAC holds dearest...........................

To that end, Championships should be located in an area that provides the easiest access for the SuperStakes teams.................................and then the other pieces can fall where they may..............................

We live in a time where it seems that nearly everyone gets a "participation trophy" for simply showing up and paying the entry fee.................................and IMHO, that needs to STOP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yes, Championships should be FUN.....................and they ARE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

..........................but they should be DIFFICULT to gain access to................................teams should have to prove themselves to be in the top few percent of the venues teams................and they should be pushed to the extreme.....................mentally..............................and both human and canine should be pushed to SAFE, LOGICAL limits...............................and then.........................and only then, can you crown a "true champion", IMHO...............................

Look...........................NOT everybody can earn a World Series ring, an Olympic Medal................or even win a local chili cook-off; but that doesn't mean that we can have FUN playing baseball, participating in sports that are Olympic sports............................or enjoy eating and cooking our own special chili!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

.........................and in case any of you were wondering, I and my mine took advantage of lax entry requirements and earned stuff that we really didn't deserve at championship level events......................and yes, I had direct influence in one venue that basically created participation awards as long as you paid for enough entry feels.............................

I am NOT proud of any of that.........................and I am embarrassed that I and my dogs did that kind of damage to a most honorable sport......................but I think that it's important that newcomers to the sport  understand that, depending on their venue of choice, some of us with the best of intentions at the time....................................didn't know what we were doing............................and we screwed things up.............................................and now, for some reason, some of you feel that you are somehow entitled to be able to continue to abuse certain aspects of "the system"........................

For all of it's perceived flaws, NADAC REALLY GETS IT RIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  I've been around long enough to know QUALITY and INTEGRITY when I see it...............................and that, folks, IS NADAC..................................

.......................and FWIW, I'd personally LOVE to see NADAC Championships in New England in September...........................but knowing what I know, it's a long-shot; but best wishes for success!!!!!!!!!!!!

Respectfully,

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Marj Vincent

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Re: Pep rally for a northeast championships!
« Reply #37 on: April 01, 2016, 11:00:30 AM »
This is a great thread!!

Lots of good ideas and places have been suggested and I am sure the NADAC office will review all of them.

Besides all the criteria that Sharon posted, I can add few more details and needs.

The crating area would need to be in another building or a separate enclosed area other than the arena building.  I noticed some of the sites have stalls or open space suitable for crating within the same building as the arena and bleachers.....BUT....because eacg run is live streamed by Three Pines Video, there can not be any other dogs barking, screaming or howling during the runs. And trust me, this happens all day long in the crating areas. I would hate to have a run ruined by another person's dog upsetting the dog in the ring or listen to a dog screaming because an owner took his second dog out, on my personal video.

So avoid this, NADAC tries to find locations where dogs can be crated indoors in another building. At Gillette there was an attached enclosed building with concrete floor space (with power) that worked great. Easy access to the arena but dogs were not heard out in the ring. At Illinois, the dogs were crated indoors in the horse stalls across the driveway from the arena.  In Utah, the dogs are crated in the stalls located next to the arena across the driveway, even though not fully enclosed in a building...not the best scenario but it worked okay.

There also needs to be an area for the vendors with power available.  Plus room for the awards/ribbon wall area (20'x30' space) and an area for the huge raffle that takes place (usually 12-15 tables are used for the raffle, a 15 x 30' area?). Ultimately, the vendors, awards and raffle area would like to be on concrete vs dirt. Dirt gets into and on everything! But if dirt is the only option, then we live with it!  It's not a deal breaker, just a desired wish.....

Another requirement would be to have some grass available to potty dogs or exercise them.  The larger the better since this is going to be a week long event. If the grass area is too small, the 150+ attending dogs will destroy it and it will become a cesspool.

A food vendor on site is also a good thing!!

Just some thoughts while people search for places.

 
Marj Vincent
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Ed and Dino

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Re: Pep rally for a northeast championships!
« Reply #38 on: April 02, 2016, 07:04:56 PM »
Thank you Marj for providing more information on the type of facility that is desired.

I believe this whole conversation has been quite civil and informative. However I felt challenged when I was asked to specifically say why I thought Dream Park was not adequate. I have not asked everyone posting a site link to say why they thought it would be a great location. NADAC can not check out every location suggested based on some link. Someone needs to take some time to visit a site to see if it is a good fit. If a location has been used for a dog agility event previously is helpful to know too.

Both Marj and Sharon have provided good information for what a site needs to have.

I currently am not competing in any venue but I hope to someday see my sister and her beagle make it to NADAC Champs. I'd love to see it closer to NJ in a few years.

If her dog eventually makes the grade for Champs, we will find a way to get to the Champs location wherever that may be.

West, South, North, Central, East, Canada, Australia wherever NADAC needs to go we will try to follow.

Ed & Dino (At the Bridge)
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Sharon Nelson

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Re: Pep rally for a northeast championships!
« Reply #39 on: April 02, 2016, 08:02:44 PM »
Thank you Marj for providing more information on the type of facility that is desired.

I believe this whole conversation has been quite civil and informative. However I felt challenged when I was asked to specifically say why I thought Dream Park was not adequate. I have not asked everyone posting a site link to say why they thought it would be a great location. NADAC can not check out every location suggested based on some link. Someone needs to take some time to visit a site to see if it is a good fit. If a location has been used for a dog agility event previously is helpful to know too.

Both Marj and Sharon have provided good information for what a site needs to have.

I currently am not competing in any venue but I hope to someday see my sister and her beagle make it to NADAC Champs. I'd love to see it closer to NJ in a few years.

If her dog eventually makes the grade for Champs, we will find a way to get to the Champs location wherever that may be.

West, South, North, Central, East, Canada, Australia wherever NADAC needs to go we will try to follow.

Ed, thank you!  You always have great input and a great sense of what is needed.  And your humor is always welcome!!

Give Dino an extra pat for me!  Love that dog!

Sharon
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bhodges865

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Re: Pep rally for a northeast championships!
« Reply #40 on: April 11, 2016, 05:26:24 AM »
Do the RV spots have to be hookups or just space? 

As a die-hard rver....YES, we do want hookups for a weeks time.  Especially if there is more than 1 person in the rv.  There is NO way myself and hubby could dry camp for an entire week.  That is a big plus in the Southeast, most trials are at horse facilities with hookups and/or amenities.
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nicksparks

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Re: Pep rally for a northeast championships!
« Reply #41 on: April 12, 2016, 09:24:24 PM »
Lexington VA - Lexington Horse Center.  Great location, wonderful town, enough RV parking.
nick

Wild Terriers

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Re: Pep rally for a northeast championships!
« Reply #42 on: May 01, 2016, 08:29:17 PM »
It's not like human names get called at the gate, only the dog's! I am used to it.

Champs may be a NADAC production, I am still interested in providing links to possible locations. It is not my job to inquire about footing. Like I said before, hidden gems may be found.

I had another thought. Must it be dirt? There has been such a surge in using indoor sports complexes for agility trials in the northeast. Now when I look for trials to enter and I see it listed as "indoors," it is at a sports facility more often than not. Rhode Island's been "leading" the way in that. Their location has a cool glass second floor from which to watch the action below. However, I have also heard it can be difficult to get this type of place when weather is cooler because the outdoor soccer leagues take preference over dog shows indoors. But this style of facility may open up more options for locations.

I am not sure of the foot requirement HAVING to be dirt - but I can say that the entries may suffer. Many people - me included - will not run on turf (honestly - I don't like the surface in RI - My dog slips on it and she has run on it a few times at different points in the last 8 years (and I see a lot of other dogs not able to keep their legs under them and their handlers don't recognize it as such)

 I would not spend the money & time  it costs to attend Champs on an unknown artificial surface - heck I won't even put out $ for an unknown surface for trials in my "area" (which includes a 5 hour driving radius) - grass and dirt for my team only

I can't imagine that Sharon would want dogs running on turf for so many days if she felt that the surface in Springfield, Il was tiring the dogs out (I do recall her saying this somewhere)  . I for one love the surface in Springfield - although I did notice its decline since 2013 - Kiva put up some of her fastest DRI runs at the 2015 Champs.



That being said Maureen - and, I agree, I doubt Champs will ever be on turf - there are ALOT of people who love good turf and there are those of us (me, specifically) who drive 6 hours each way to run on the surface in RI - and both of the dogs I currently run have their fastest time in every class on artificial surfaces, so, isn't it great that there are choices.

And,hey Diane, I live I live in PA and I have only one more NADAC trial per year in my state than you have in yours - grin!!

And, let's not forget that NADAC includes all of North America not just the US....

Karen and The Wild Terriers
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