Author Topic: 5-foot Rule for Barrels  (Read 7590 times)

Linda W. Anderson

  • Trial Secretary
  • *****
  • Posts: 976
Re: 5-foot Rule for Barrels
« Reply #30 on: June 30, 2016, 05:42:11 AM »
Several people have asked what the fault is for going outside of the 5 feet, and so far I haven't seen a response.  I can tell you that my dog was given a 20 point deduction.

It would be 20 faults.

Sharon

But, if you are able to "fix" the performance by re-doing the barrel, there will be no fault, right?
Linda
Linda W. Anderson - Dogs have only one fault, their lives are too short!

Amanda Nelson

  • Fluid Motion Agility
  • Judge
  • *****
  • Posts: 376
  • Fluid Motion Agility-For the Athlete in Your Dog!
    • Fluid Motion Agility
Re: 5-foot Rule for Barrels
« Reply #31 on: June 30, 2016, 06:11:04 AM »
Several people have asked what the fault is for going outside of the 5 feet, and so far I haven't seen a response.  I can tell you that my dog was given a 20 point deduction.

It would be 20 faults.

Sharon

But, if you are able to "fix" the performance by re-doing the barrel, there will be no fault, right?
Linda
Correct. :-)
Amanda

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

Amanda Nelson
Online Classes and Private Lessons available!
--
For the Athlete in Your Dog!
www.fluidmotionagility.com

TheQuestKnight

  • *****
  • Posts: 173
  • I'm a Marxist: Groucho, Chico, Harpo, Zeppo, Gummo
Re: 5-foot Rule for Barrels
« Reply #32 on: June 30, 2016, 11:34:15 AM »
Hi!

I KNOW BETTER than to "challenge" Sharon; but I do have to ask a question.  If my aging, failing memory serves me well, I believe that I remember that a long, long time ago in a place far, far away, the barrel was first introduced as a "replacement" for the 180 degree tunnel.

I TOTALLY REALIZE that many-to-most of the medium-large to large dogs are "compressed" in one or more ways in a 24" diameter tunnel, where there is more freedom of movement around a barrel.  I also acknowledge that NO ONE really wants a dog to "take a tour of the outfield while rounding second base".....................that's why there are subjectively defined "base paths".............................

Now, it has been quite a while since we've competed in a "for real NADAC trial"; but when we and our dogs were still actively competing, most tunnels were straight or VERY gently curved, wherever they were located.

I can TOTALLY understand and concur with a reasonably tight path around a barrel for Barrelers because it IS a "special skills" class; but when a barrel is used on another class' course where 180 degree tunnels are, to the best of my knowledge, rarely, if ever, used.........................if the same "base path" justified in that case.

OK, OK..........................different performance standards for the identical obstacle in different classes is a Pandora's Box filled with at least a case of cans of worms that NOBODY in their right mind would really choose to open....................................

I TOTALLY agree with Sharon that "suppleness" is VERY important to our dogs' overall health................whether they are agility dogs or simply pets; but spondylosis is something that is generally beyond an owner's control............................it's something that just happens and has to be dealt with as best as we know how.

It seems that barrels are making their presence known in an increasing number of classes and courses; but I do NOT know that with certainty.  One of the MOSTEST AWESOMEST things about NADAC has been the availability of at least ONE class where the older, basically sound; but "comfortably ouchy" older agility kids could still play................................

Unlike hoops, which do NOT put ANY physical stress on a dog, barrels have the potential to do just that for some dogs.

Soooooooooooooooo...........................are barrels being over-used because they offer an easy solution to some course design conundrums and enigmas???

.......................and YES, the sport MUST evolve and change............................and that also implies the obstacle performance standards will change over time...............................

Just rambling thoughts from an old hippie that is becoming less relevant over time........................

Al Ceranko, Pelli, Katie & Lily 

Castle Camelot: Al, Barb, Dred, Gael & Pellinore . . . and from The Bridge Grill & Pub,  Kali, Flurry, Promise, Chico, Romulus, Trix and Tony.

Sharon Nelson

  • Mother NADAC
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 6054
Re: 5-foot Rule for Barrels
« Reply #33 on: June 30, 2016, 01:40:28 PM »
Hi!

I KNOW BETTER than to "challenge" Sharon; but I do have to ask a question.  If my aging, failing memory serves me well, I believe that I remember that a long, long time ago in a place far, far away, the barrel was first introduced as a "replacement" for the 180 degree tunnel.

I TOTALLY REALIZE that many-to-most of the medium-large to large dogs are "compressed" in one or more ways in a 24" diameter tunnel, where there is more freedom of movement around a barrel.  I also acknowledge that NO ONE really wants a dog to "take a tour of the outfield while rounding second base".....................that's why there are subjectively defined "base paths".............................

Now, it has been quite a while since we've competed in a "for real NADAC trial"; but when we and our dogs were still actively competing, most tunnels were straight or VERY gently curved, wherever they were located.

I can TOTALLY understand and concur with a reasonably tight path around a barrel for Barrelers because it IS a "special skills" class; but when a barrel is used on another class' course where 180 degree tunnels are, to the best of my knowledge, rarely, if ever, used.........................if the same "base path" justified in that case.

OK, OK..........................different performance standards for the identical obstacle in different classes is a Pandora's Box filled with at least a case of cans of worms that NOBODY in their right mind would really choose to open....................................

I TOTALLY agree with Sharon that "suppleness" is VERY important to our dogs' overall health................whether they are agility dogs or simply pets; but spondylosis is something that is generally beyond an owner's control............................it's something that just happens and has to be dealt with as best as we know how.

It seems that barrels are making their presence known in an increasing number of classes and courses; but I do NOT know that with certainty.  One of the MOSTEST AWESOMEST things about NADAC has been the availability of at least ONE class where the older, basically sound; but "comfortably ouchy" older agility kids could still play................................

Unlike hoops, which do NOT put ANY physical stress on a dog, barrels have the potential to do just that for some dogs.

Soooooooooooooooo...........................are barrels being over-used because they offer an easy solution to some course design conundrums and enigmas???

.......................and YES, the sport MUST evolve and change............................and that also implies the obstacle performance standards will change over time...............................

Just rambling thoughts from an old hippie that is becoming less relevant over time........................

Al Ceranko, Pelli, Katie & Lily

Barrels aren't hardly used at all.  Much is about "perceived" uses.

Sharon
Sharon
In-Sync-Agility

Pat Roth

  • *****
  • Posts: 1
Re: 5-foot Rule for Barrels
« Reply #34 on: June 30, 2016, 01:43:14 PM »
I agree with Quest Knight I thought barrels were only going to replace tight tunnels. Now I find them on every course but tunnelers. For an older physically challenged handler trying to do them at great distances & getting the dogs to do tight turns can be difficult. My older dog (11 1/2) no longer likes tight turns since she had TPLO so from distance I will probably not get her to complete them.
I also feel that changes need to be brought to the attention of competitors at briefings.

TheQuestKnight

  • *****
  • Posts: 173
  • I'm a Marxist: Groucho, Chico, Harpo, Zeppo, Gummo
Re: 5-foot Rule for Barrels
« Reply #35 on: June 30, 2016, 05:33:47 PM »
Barrels aren't hardly used at all.  Much is about "perceived" uses.

Sharon

THANKS, Sharon!

I kind of thought as much..................

As I said, we haven't trialed for a long time.....................NO NADAC trials within 5 hours of us......................and 2 of our 3 dogs have physical issues......................and the other one has NO interest in agility...........................varmint hunter???  Totally different story! <G>

I have viewed many, many VT courses.....................and barrels didn't seem to be over-used; but I got a much different impression from posts on the forum.............................

We use barrels at home for FUN agility play........................and I guess that we're NOT THAT picky...............as long as our dogs have FUN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

As Arlo Guthrie says, it is what it is, as it were...........................but his most profound insight is to want what you already have, that way, you'll never be disappointed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Al, Barb, Pelli, Katie & Lily
Castle Camelot: Al, Barb, Dred, Gael & Pellinore . . . and from The Bridge Grill & Pub,  Kali, Flurry, Promise, Chico, Romulus, Trix and Tony.

Helen Z

  • *****
  • Posts: 29
Re: 5-foot Rule for Barrels
« Reply #36 on: July 01, 2016, 04:12:05 PM »
Barrels aren't hardly used at all.  Much is about "perceived" uses.

Sharon

THANKS, Sharon!

I kind of thought as much..................

As I said, we haven't trialed for a long time.....................NO NADAC trials within 5 hours of us......................and 2 of our 3 dogs have physical issues......................and the other one has NO interest in agility...........................varmint hunter???  Totally different story! <G>

I have viewed many, many VT courses.....................and barrels didn't seem to be over-used; but I got a much different impression from posts on the forum.............................

We use barrels at home for FUN agility play........................and I guess that we're NOT THAT picky...............as long as our dogs have FUN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

As Arlo Guthrie says, it is what it is, as it were...........................but his most profound insight is to want what you already have, that way, you'll never be disappointed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Al, Barb, Pelli, Katie & Lily

At least at the trials I've been to in the last few months, Las Vegas, Norco, and Juniper Hills, there's been a barrel in nearly every regular course we've run.  Last weekend was the first time I was ever faulted for my dog not hugging the barrel tightly enough.  Cones, etc., and certainly just the knowledge of a five-foot rule will be very helpful.  I will just have to be more hands-on for barrels.
"If there are no dogs in heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went."
Will Rogers

MSito

  • *****
  • Posts: 15
Re: 5-foot Rule for Barrels
« Reply #37 on: July 01, 2016, 08:17:28 PM »
I'm seeing a lot of barrels in my experience, not every course, but enough. I'm not going to go for the fastest time. I'm out there to have fun with my dogs and keep them in the best shape possible. We hike, swim, doggie massage. For barrel practice at home, I'm using my potatoe barrels.  The stay within five feet because of my carrot planter.  My training is very homey.   Melinda Sito

Sharon Nelson

  • Mother NADAC
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 6054
Re: 5-foot Rule for Barrels
« Reply #38 on: July 01, 2016, 09:15:56 PM »
I'm seeing a lot of barrels in my experience, not every course, but enough. I'm not going to go for the fastest time. I'm out there to have fun with my dogs and keep them in the best shape possible. We hike, swim, doggie massage. For barrel practice at home, I'm using my potatoe barrels.  The stay within five feet because of my carrot planter.  My training is very homey.   Melinda Sito

Homey is good!!

Sharon
Sharon
In-Sync-Agility

Helen Z

  • *****
  • Posts: 29
Re: 5-foot Rule for Barrels
« Reply #39 on: July 02, 2016, 12:22:59 AM »
I'm seeing a lot of barrels in my experience, not every course, but enough. I'm not going to go for the fastest time. I'm out there to have fun with my dogs and keep them in the best shape possible. We hike, swim, doggie massage. For barrel practice at home, I'm using my potatoe barrels.  The stay within five feet because of my carrot planter.  My training is very homey.   Melinda Sito

Awesome, Melinda!
"If there are no dogs in heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went."
Will Rogers

gm5bkc

  • *****
  • Posts: 38
Re: 5-foot Rule for Barrels
« Reply #40 on: July 09, 2016, 06:07:52 PM »
Question about barrel criteria.  This weekend at a trial we've seen a barrel on Regular with no markers of any kind, and on Barrelers runs they all have hoops on them.  How does this relate to the 5/6/7 foot requirements, since a hoop is 34 inches wide?  What should we be training at home?
Glenn, Merri, Hildie IJC, WV-I
and V-NATCH Katie, HP-O

http://www.hoopsandjumps.com/
http://funagility.webs.com/

Lindsey Cooper

  • Trial Secretary
  • *****
  • Posts: 72
    • Mountain Dog Sports
Re: 5-foot Rule for Barrels
« Reply #41 on: July 10, 2016, 08:07:44 PM »
The run at the trial you are referencing was simply we didn't get the markers moved over from the previous course. We noticed it after we started running dogs.

This was the first weekend those of us in CO have seen the barrel markers and all the dogs did just fine with them! We were outdoors on grass with the golf marker things and I didn't see a single dog stop to look at them. The only time I saw wide turns was when the barrel was in the middle of the course and it was a wrap around it. With other equipment on almost every side, some dogs tended to go wide looking at a tunnel, weaves, etc. I had one of those dogs and I brought him back, tightened him up and fixed it.

I'm ok with barrels around th edges of courses, but they aren't my favorite when they are in the middle with lots of other options around. Just my $0.02

Lindsey
Mountain Dog Sports

Sharon Nelson

  • Mother NADAC
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 6054
Re: 5-foot Rule for Barrels
« Reply #42 on: July 10, 2016, 09:42:32 PM »
The run at the trial you are referencing was simply we didn't get the markers moved over from the previous course. We noticed it after we started running dogs.

This was the first weekend those of us in CO have seen the barrel markers and all the dogs did just fine with them! We were outdoors on grass with the golf marker things and I didn't see a single dog stop to look at them. The only time I saw wide turns was when the barrel was in the middle of the course and it was a wrap around it. With other equipment on almost every side, some dogs tended to go wide looking at a tunnel, weaves, etc. I had one of those dogs and I brought him back, tightened him up and fixed it.

I'm ok with barrels around th edges of courses, but they aren't my favorite when they are in the middle with lots of other options around. Just my $0.02

Lindsey
Mountain Dog Sports

I agree with your input!!

Sharon
Sharon
In-Sync-Agility

Kyle

  • 2016 Online Seminar Group
  • *****
  • Posts: 246
Re: 5-foot Rule for Barrels
« Reply #43 on: July 11, 2016, 06:46:06 AM »
At the trial (Fun Raiser) I was at this weekend, there was a barrel in the warm up area. Some very kind and generous folks put whiskers around it for folks to practice on and get used to them. Great idea and thank you!

I do agree that a barrel out in the middle of a Regular course is sometimes the toughest part of the course to get. It can look kind of "out there in space" to some of our dogs and they may have some difficulty "finding" it. Part of the difficulty may just be our handling - we're not helping our dogs enough (creating a good, strong path) or the dog may not understand the concept of the obstacle well enough to actually "look" for it.  :) (This appears to mostly be with our older dogs, the young ones who started their training with barrels seem to have a lot less problems.) But, this was also the issue when hoops first came into courses and there were only one or two out there. Now all the dogs seem to be able to "find" the hoop in the middle of a course, so I figure that soon they'll be looking for, and finding, the barrel. (And now there will be whiskers or those flat discs around them to make it even easier for the dogs to find the barrel!)

I really hope that barrels stay on our courses. They are a fun, safe obstacle for the dogs! If we saw more of them on courses we'd all get used to them - just like the hoops! Please put more barrels on courses for us so we get more practice to better our handling - if nothing else.  ;D

Just my humble opinion,
Kyle
Kyle
Leona Valley, CA

Sharon Nelson

  • Mother NADAC
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 6054
Re: 5-foot Rule for Barrels
« Reply #44 on: July 11, 2016, 10:50:24 AM »
At the trial (Fun Raiser) I was at this weekend, there was a barrel in the warm up area. Some very kind and generous folks put whiskers around it for folks to practice on and get used to them. Great idea and thank you!

I do agree that a barrel out in the middle of a Regular course is sometimes the toughest part of the course to get. It can look kind of "out there in space" to some of our dogs and they may have some difficulty "finding" it. Part of the difficulty may just be our handling - we're not helping our dogs enough (creating a good, strong path) or the dog may not understand the concept of the obstacle well enough to actually "look" for it.  :) (This appears to mostly be with our older dogs, the young ones who started their training with barrels seem to have a lot less problems.) But, this was also the issue when hoops first came into courses and there were only one or two out there. Now all the dogs seem to be able to "find" the hoop in the middle of a course, so I figure that soon they'll be looking for, and finding, the barrel. (And now there will be whiskers or those flat discs around them to make it even easier for the dogs to find the barrel!)

I really hope that barrels stay on our courses. They are a fun, safe obstacle for the dogs! If we saw more of them on courses we'd all get used to them - just like the hoops! Please put more barrels on courses for us so we get more practice to better our handling - if nothing else.  ;D

Just my humble opinion,
Kyle

Good input! (other than having a barrel in the warm-up area, which isn't allowed!!)

sharon
Sharon
In-Sync-Agility