Author Topic: Championships courses  (Read 22954 times)

Sharon Nelson

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Re: Championships courses
« Reply #75 on: August 13, 2016, 05:59:52 PM »
My concern is the way that Champs is scored overall. If a team struggles, this particular "test" could completely wipe them from the standings. I'll use my dog Secret as an example. She has a NATCH, but she really doesn't enjoy working at a distance. She also gets frustrated and will bark at me if she doesn't like my handling.

Using the course that Sharon posted, one scenario I can envision would be going into the circle at hoop 18 and coming out at 6 instead of going across the circle to 19. That's 10 faults. Then I'd have to send her back through 6 and up to 19, but maybe she gets sassy with me because she thinks I'm stupid for screwing her up. So she stands and barks at me for 5 seconds. I cannot physically cross into the circle as I could in any other class that I might screw up the distance challenge (to take 5 faults), so maybe I waste some more time trying to get her up to 19. Perhaps 10 seconds go by when I finally say "screw it" and go on -- Due to the obstacle restrictions, I cannot complete 19 or 20, amassing 40 faults. I have just earned 50 faults and an untold number of seconds due to the restriction of these gates -- whereas if it was a line restriction I could have perhaps opted for an automatic 10 point fault with no time wasted, perhaps just a 5 point fault if I needed to step in to redirect, or at most 15 faults if she went off course and I needed to step in to fix it. I could have been in 1st place in the standings and dropped to the bottom from one class.

That is my problem with this being at Champs, with the way that Champs is scored. There is no way to recover from some of the ways that things could "go wrong" with this sequence. If you bomb a gate circle at a regular trial, who cares -- you don't Q. At Champs it could be the difference between finals or no finals, overall placements or no overall placements. Just saying.

And I would bet you could run it with no faults. 

Sharon
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Sharon Nelson

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Re: Championships courses
« Reply #76 on: August 13, 2016, 06:02:44 PM »
I only have 2 X pens and no gates. So the best I can even train would be with 2 hoops before Champs. Nothing close to what this challenge is. I would love to try this at a regular trial. Just nervous as Karissa said-- it would be frustrating rocking all of your other runs and thuis one blowing your chances for finals. Oh well. We will survive. Just adding my 2 cents.
Also, one more thought-- if you add this class to a NATCH (and I'm not excited about this change), I think some other class needs to be eliminated from NATCH/VersNATCH requirements. Clubs that only hold 2 day trials will have a hard time offering all these. And, running all these classes is already costly, without adding more. 😔 Not to mention more equipment for clubs to purchase when the clubs in my area barely make enough to cover trial costs.

If a club has hoops for Numbered Hoopers, they already have plenty.  If they don't offer Numbered Hoopers, then they still must have ten hoops for other courses.  And clubs have had no problem borrowing x-pens from members.  There shouldn't be any need to purchase more equipment.

Sharon
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Rebecca Kriz

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Re: Championships courses
« Reply #77 on: August 13, 2016, 06:10:07 PM »
Karissa, my dog and I have run X-Hoopers many times and we still screw up, so I feel like this hypothetical situation could happen even with an experienced team.  I have to agree that this thing is a pain to fix in some cases.  Several times my dog ran around the outside of the gates when we had to go along the two hoops in the back because I said 'out' and there really was no easy way to get back on course without incurring too many faults back when EGC had different scoring.  (Edit: even now there really is no way to fix that mistake without going off course somewhere.)  Perhaps there will be some consideration taken into the scoring of this obstacle that may make that situation more forgiving.  Or that's just what happens and we have to deal with it.  I have found there are a couple tricks to handling hoop circles, but it shouldn't be too hard for experienced handlers to figure out.  (I'm willing to share my .02 if anyone wants to PM me.  I don't know if I'll explain it that great, but I'd love to help anyone worried about this out.  Edit 2: For anyone that's never seen this run, go on Youtube and search for X-Hoopers!)
« Last Edit: August 13, 2016, 06:26:59 PM by Rebecca Kriz »
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Lorrie Stelz

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Re: Championships courses
« Reply #78 on: August 13, 2016, 07:08:51 PM »
I WILL say I much appreciate finding out about this now, than later. I'd much rather be prepared as much as possible, as well as mentally, than right before, or at Champs. So thanks for the heads up. 😊
Lorrie Stelz

Kaiden: NATCH 10, VersNATCH 8 Tartan Bay More Than Meets The Eye MX MXJ MXF O-HP-E XBR-E IT HIC HOF
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& ret. Chaney: NATCH 8 VersNATCH 5 Wildblue Enchanted MX MXJ MJB MXF S-HP-E HOF

Lindsey Cooper

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Re: Championships courses
« Reply #79 on: August 13, 2016, 07:30:31 PM »
What length are the sections of ex-pens on the hoop circles?

Looking at the sample map, it looks like they are about 12 ft sections.

I've been slowly trying to acquire ex-pens that I can use for x-hoopers without breaking the bank, but not sure if I have enough yet...

Lindsey

Sharon Nelson

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Re: Championships courses
« Reply #80 on: August 13, 2016, 07:56:41 PM »
What length are the sections of ex-pens on the hoop circles?

Looking at the sample map, it looks like they are about 12 ft sections.

I've been slowly trying to acquire ex-pens that I can use for x-hoopers without breaking the bank, but not sure if I have enough yet...

Lindsey

Each section is 2'.  We use all eight sections in the circle (16') and six sections on the wings (12').

Sharon
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Deni

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Re: Championships courses
« Reply #81 on: August 13, 2016, 08:01:42 PM »
Here's an X-Hoopers course from last Dec.  It has gates rather than x-pens, but if you haven't seen one of the courses this will give you an idea. 

Denise

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Re: Championships courses
« Reply #82 on: August 13, 2016, 08:15:02 PM »
Thanks, Deni!
Lorrie Stelz

Kaiden: NATCH 10, VersNATCH 8 Tartan Bay More Than Meets The Eye MX MXJ MXF O-HP-E XBR-E IT HIC HOF
Tripp: NATCH 4, VersNATCH 3, All Around NATCH BB's Embrace The Journey HIT HIC HOF
& ret. Chaney: NATCH 8 VersNATCH 5 Wildblue Enchanted MX MXJ MJB MXF S-HP-E HOF

Rebecca Kriz

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Re: Championships courses
« Reply #83 on: August 13, 2016, 08:20:01 PM »
Oh, that's a really good video for people to watch because it has a chunk of the same sequence as the sample course map.  Thanks for posting Denise!
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LeeAnne McAdam

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Re: Championships courses
« Reply #84 on: August 13, 2016, 08:43:58 PM »
This might sound really stupid to people, but back when we used gates for the gate circle and when I only had four gates, we used to set up three gates (which could be easily changed to an ex-pen) with a hoop on each end and then the other gate on the other side of one hoop or the other, so basically a quarter of the gate circle.  It at least gave the dogs (and people) a chance to see part of what it would look like and get a feel for it.  When we graduated to a real gate circle, all of our dogs made the transition very easily.  You gotta use what you have, right?
Lee Anne

Kelly Wilson

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Championships courses
« Reply #85 on: August 13, 2016, 10:53:30 PM »
When EGC was first introduced I was very new at agility I tried it at a trial for the first time and loved it.  The extreme games is rarely offered where I can run them but do at every opportunity.  My trainer would set a modified circle to practice directionally I struggled with the circle as I don't freestyle well, I like a numbered course.  Now I use the modified circle on my pups for directional practice.  I have a very small yard to work in but it works. I hope people realize the benefit of Extreme hoopers.  Change is hard for everyone but not impossible.


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Kyle

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Re: Championships courses
« Reply #86 on: August 13, 2016, 10:57:08 PM »
I love challenges and am up for anything. When I saw your first post my first thought was I should probably so my dogs s hoop circle I am sure once they see it once it will be no problem. Honestly even if they don't see it at all and then try it out in champs the worst they will do is probably just look at me a little confused and then go where I ask them to. However I see some people do not thing it is fair. I to am in an area where it has never been offered (if it was I would enter it). So yes some people like me could be at a disadvantage. However I don't go into any big event with the hope of just doing what I do every weekend I go in with the hope that I will be pushed and tested on the most challenging things so then if We win I know We earned it and if we don't win I know we tired our best. I do have a few things that might be considered to try to make everyone happy (that may not be possible).
1. If the circle is set up only have regular and pre elite go through it once so if it is faulted it is just one fault and the weekend isn't ruined. Then rhe stakes classes could go through it multiple times and show us how to do it.
2. In regular and pre elite use a distance line instead of the gates/xpens. Then it is still the same skill but not the fear of seeing the gates there. Then again stakes classes can have the gates.
3. Have no gates but the same set up of a circle so they handlers can choose to go into the circle of gates.
If you make X hoopers a requirement for a NATCH will you please make it requires for trials to have to offer it. And could you possible allow us that are already in elite working on NATCHs to skip novice and open if we want to? I am all for adding it but I really don't want to have to start from novice in that class when my dogs are close to a NATCH in all of the other classes.
Whatever you choose to do we will be ready and excited for it!!

If I read the post Sharon sent correctly, there will be only 1 run with the Hoop Circle in it. If that's true, it sure won't "ruin" the weekend! Heck, some of the Champs courses will blow your mind and that's just the "normal" stuff.... :)

As to having the Stakes people show you "how to do it", I think you don't understand the Bonus program...there's no Bonus box or line in X-Hoopers. Stakes folks have not been challenged with this at a trial before. Many of us don't handle the Hoop Circle from any major distance or small space. So we're all in the same boat here!

And as someone else has posted, sometimes the gates are waaaaay more helpful than a piece of tape on the ground...

-Kyle
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Peter Vogel

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Re: Championships courses
« Reply #87 on: August 14, 2016, 09:25:51 AM »
Denise,  thanks for the video post of you and Riot playing in the hoop circle - it looked like he was having a blast!  After watching this, I'm even more excited for Champs. 

Personally I want Champs to be a venue where we get tested and try things we may not always see in all trials.  Bring on the challenges!!!
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Marcy Matties

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Re: Championships courses
« Reply #88 on: August 14, 2016, 10:02:34 AM »
You can see from the video above that there are 3 gates in-between each of the hoops on the circle.  And 2 gates on the wings.  If you want to set it up with x-pens here's what Sharon said last year:

**This photo looks like it took 6 Xpens (36" high).   Is the maximum number of Xpens a club would need?

Correct.  I used six ex-pens 36" high.  For the four in the circle I used all 8 panels of an ex-pen and on the wings I used 6 panels of an ex-pen.


and ...

I used Velcro strips to attach the pens to the hoops on the circle.  It needed no other attachments.  On the wings, I used Velcro to attach the straight pen to the circle and to the hoop on the wing.  I also used snow poles as an upright to secure to.  Only the wings needed an upright to tie to.  The curve on the circle gave enough support for them to keep up.

I used all eight panels on the circle part and six of the eight sections on the wings.

We have strong winds and it stayed up perfect!
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QQDonna

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Re: Championships courses
« Reply #89 on: August 14, 2016, 12:39:26 PM »
In the spirit of using what you have on hand.....here is the ever popular tunnel gate.   No issue with the dog jumping the tunnels, but she did jump the horizontal gate once, when she couldn't find the straight across hoop.  With one training session, I can already see great applications with the proficiency of this skill (ie... keeping that herding dog from curling to the right or the left).  The elite dog will be fine....and it will be great training for the baby dog.

Donna