Author Topic: X-Hoopers as part of NATCH  (Read 4140 times)

Sharon Nelson

  • Mother NADAC
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 6054
Re: X-Hoopers as part of NATCH
« Reply #30 on: August 14, 2016, 09:35:40 PM »

NADAC cannot survive in a region without trainers who teach the skills necessary. It's fine to have the attitude of "It's our sandbox, if you don't like it you can go play somewhere else" --- But don't then sit and wonder why trials and clubs continue to fold up and go away. Sometimes I think it would behoove some of the diehards to attend some trials in other organizations. Why would you expect them to come to your trials if you won't go to theirs? If all you do is proclaim that yours is better -- if you don't SHOW them that the skills you've trained for NADAC are helpful elsewhere -- why on earth would they feel compelled to make the jump?

Hi, Karissa.
  First, none of us say "it's our sandbox"........ statement.  It is heard a lot, but it is you that keeps saying that.   We don't want anyone to leave, but there will be those that do leave.  We get people that left AKC and some people will leave to do venues where there are more available trials.  There is a theme in your area that NADAC is dwindling and that there aren't any trainers teaching NADAC.  You are absolutely right that if there aren't any trainers to teach NADAC skills then that is the reason that the entries will continue to fall and more clubs will leave and do venues where the area trainers teach the necessary skills and set the appropriate classes  for that venue.

   We don't proclaim that "ours is better" except to ourselves.  Yep, we have FUN!!  We will rejoice that we have fun!  But it never written that we have fun in NADAC and that we wouldn't in other venues.  In many areas competitors don't multi-venue because there is plenty of NADAC available, not because they dislike other venues.  In "most" cases NADAC exhibitors do not bash other venues to promote NADAC, yet it is more common that other venue competitors will bash NADAC, even if they have never tried it.  I want people to have fun!  If that means another venue, that is okay, just have fun!  Now I am sure that some people read that and believe in their minds that I am saying "go away" but that just shows that you don't know me and you put words into what I am saying that is not what is meant.

   I truly just want people to have fun with their dogs!  Period.  No deeper meaning.  Go have fun with your dogs!  No more, no less.

   I am sorry that there aren't trainers to help in your area.  Maybe that is where the energy could go.  Trying to create some NADAC training so people could have more fun in NADAC.  NADAC training brings in NADAC entries and clubs get more entries and make more money from the trials so they can pay the expenses of hosting a trial.  No trainers, lower entries, less income, less clubs, fewer exhibitors.  I would love the wave a magic wand and have a NADAC trainer appear in your area, as you said you don't have any.  But I don't own that wand, because if I did everyone would be having a blast doing agility!

   Hug your dog, they will be gone long before you are ready!  Work on solutions to problems without complaining about problems and maybe there are answers that haven't been thought of yet!

   Just have fun with your dog in whatever form that is!  Agility, nosework, dock diving, obedience, tracking, barn hunts, freestyle, or taking long hikes in the woods or long walks on the beach!

   Life is too short.... smile and hug that dog again!

Sharon

   
Sharon
In-Sync-Agility

Cindy

  • 2016 Online Seminar Group
  • *****
  • Posts: 83
Re: X-Hoopers as part of NATCH
« Reply #31 on: August 14, 2016, 09:57:44 PM »
The point of the thread in the Champs forum is not whether or not a hoop circle should be part of NADAC. It's whether or not it's fair to have it as part of a Championship event when a large percentage of competitors have never seen one. It seems to me that the majority of people saying "it's not so bad, you should try it" are people who have competed a great deal in the class, or at least have had the opportunity to do so. I'm not sure why it's so hard for you to understand the point of view from those who have literally never performed this obstacle/sequence.


Karissa, I don't think anyone is trying to belittle your concerns, but rather to try to reassure those who haven't seen it before.  All of those people who are saying, "It's not so bad, you should try it.", had a first time experience and that is what they are sharing.  For most of us it was far easier than it looked.  I hope you find that to be true as well.

Have fun at champs, and enjoy the special time with your dogs.  For every handler who has qualified for champs, there are many at home thinking, "Someday..."
Cindy and the Beagles

Cindy

  • 2016 Online Seminar Group
  • *****
  • Posts: 83
Re: X-Hoopers as part of NATCH
« Reply #32 on: August 14, 2016, 10:02:15 PM »

People and dogs feeling good together, that is what it is all about.

Sharon

Amen!!  And that is why I love NADAC so much!!
Cindy and the Beagles

Wild Terriers

  • 2016 Online Seminar Group
  • *****
  • Posts: 370
Re: X-Hoopers as part of NATCH
« Reply #33 on: August 15, 2016, 02:51:28 AM »
I think it's awesome that NADAC is open to input, but it seems to me that somewhere along the way people have misunderstood input to mean - 'if I have a concern or I don't like something and if I express  my concern or dissatisfaction that I will get my way'. I'm sorry but just because input is welcomed doesn't mean it will go 'your way'.....  As I frequently tell my teenage daughter - no, is an acceptable answer, perhaps not the one you want, but acceptable nevertheless and in the end, NADAC is a business and while input is welcome and that's awesome, I have yet to see anything say - 'give input and you can have it your way' .......  Even after 12 years I am appalled at the negativity and 'attack mode' that so many seem to feel is an acceptable justified way to speak to the head and founder of an international organization, who makes every attempt to have 'an open door policy' .....  Year after year, and Sharon retains that 'open door policy' - I doubt many people would.

And, Kyle - YOU ROCK - can't wait to see you!!!

Karen
Karen and the Wild Terriers

knittingdog

  • *****
  • Posts: 134
    • Cowtown Dog Sports
Re: X-Hoopers as part of NATCH
« Reply #34 on: August 15, 2016, 05:40:16 AM »

I just wanted to say that making XHoopers and XBarrelers an option for VT runs is a fantastic idea!  It gives people the chance to see courses and maybe some incentive to run them and practice them!  What a great opportunity to expose people all over the country to these classes!  People could try them locally in a VT setting without being dependent on a club to provide the option and then practice after taping if they wanted to.  Or just practice without the intent of taping at all.  I think XHoopers and XBarrelers will catch on more once people have the chance to become more familiar with them.

I know we will be doing them here if given the opportunity.  One of my students has been clamoring for years to start doing EGC.

Robin

 

Kyle

  • 2016 Online Seminar Group
  • *****
  • Posts: 246
Re: X-Hoopers as part of NATCH
« Reply #35 on: August 15, 2016, 06:41:35 AM »
The point of the thread in the Champs forum is not whether or not a hoop circle should be part of NADAC. It's whether or not it's fair to have it as part of a Championship event when a large percentage of competitors have never seen one. It seems to me that the majority of people saying "it's not so bad, you should try it" are people who have competed a great deal in the class, or at least have had the opportunity to do so. I'm not sure why it's so hard for you to understand the point of view from those who have literally never performed this obstacle/sequence.

Karissa,

Oh, I think that point of view has been very clearly understood. But what you have failed to see is the majority of responses have been people *finding a positive way* to meet this new "challenge", not continually disparaging it. A trainer has said they will focus on it for the next 6 weeks with the *very large* group of students they always bring to Champs. Numerous people have sent in tons of suggestions to get started training this both from a small and large scale. There's been creative photos sent in on how to set something similar up at home or class. Folks who were surprised by this challenge are actively going about *finding a way* to make it work for them. This is how true NADAC Champions work! (OK, in *reality*, it's how ALL true Champions work!  ;D) They see a problem, they find a way to fix it, move on and win, rather than just sit on their butts and harp on the negatives.

You've made it very clear that you aren't coming to Championships this year. Lucky you! You've been given a 13 month "heads up" on one of the possible focus of one of the courses you might see in 2017, if you choose to qualify and enter. 13 months should be *plenty* of time for you to figure out how to train this thing. Actually, it will probably take you, as a handler, maaaaybe 13 minutes and your dog about 13 seconds. It's not exactly rocket science....since your dogs *do* know what hoops are.

So, Karissa, you better jump on the Circle of Fun Train along with the rest of us! It's coming to a town near YOU next year! We've all bought our tickets, climbed aboard and are having fun enjoying each other and our dogs in the Club Car....where are you???

-Kyle
Kyle
Leona Valley, CA

Kyk9s

  • *****
  • Posts: 12
Re: X-Hoopers as part of NATCH
« Reply #36 on: August 15, 2016, 07:17:16 AM »
I'm all for trying fun and new things but being a club east of the Mississippi and south of the Mason Dixon line it's like pulling teeth just to get folks to try NADAC Our club has been around going on 6 years. we now  have several accomplished handlers and even some hall of fame members but it has been an insane amount of work to get there. The first time folks around here saw hoops you would have thought the world was coming to an end lol. Having barrels introduced gradually was wonderful and the barrelers class is being received with great enthusiasm from participants. All  I ask is that clubs have some time to introduce it and I'm sure once folks see how fun and challenging it is then when it becomes a Natch requirement there will be a lot less fussing about it.

People fear the unknown and Are resistant to change. I'm sure once we have a time frame and guide lines it will all work out.
Thank you for your time and have a lovely day

Robin

Dheavner

  • *****
  • Posts: 105
Re: X-Hoopers as part of NATCH
« Reply #37 on: August 15, 2016, 07:48:20 AM »
The point of the thread in the Champs forum is not whether or not a hoop circle should be part of NADAC. It's whether or not it's fair to have it as part of a Championship event when a large percentage of competitors have never seen one. It seems to me that the majority of people saying "it's not so bad, you should try it" are people who have competed a great deal in the class, or at least have had the opportunity to do so. I'm not sure why it's so hard for you to understand the point of view from those who have literally never performed this obstacle/sequence.






Agreed!!!
« Last Edit: August 15, 2016, 07:54:13 AM by Dheavner »

Lisa Schmit In The Zone Agility

  • Trial Secretary
  • *****
  • Posts: 307
    • In The Zone Agility
Re: X-Hoopers as part of NATCH
« Reply #38 on: August 15, 2016, 01:59:20 PM »
I would LOVE for Xhoopers and Xbarrelers to be offered as VT runs :)
I would do them :)
Be Well & Happy
In The Zone Agility
www.inthezoneagility.com
Agility and Conditioning Seminars/Online Training Classes

Sharon Nelson

  • Mother NADAC
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 6054
Re: X-Hoopers as part of NATCH
« Reply #39 on: August 15, 2016, 02:13:31 PM »
I would LOVE for Xhoopers and Xbarrelers to be offered as VT runs :)
I would do them :)

Barrelers would be too tough to judge the exact distance as no angle would show all three sides.  But X-Hoopers could be done.

Sharon
Sharon
In-Sync-Agility

Marcy Matties

  • 2016 Online Seminar Group
  • *****
  • Posts: 557
  • LuvMyDogs
Re: X-Hoopers as part of NATCH
« Reply #40 on: August 15, 2016, 02:38:49 PM »
I would LOVE for Xhoopers and Xbarrelers to be offered as VT runs :)
I would do them :)

Barrelers would be too tough to judge the exact distance as no angle would show all three sides.  But X-Hoopers could be done.

Sharon

You would just need to video Barrelers from an overhead drone is all ...  lol
Marcy, Toby, Dublin and Odie
===============
I want to be runnin' when the sand runs out.

knittingdog

  • *****
  • Posts: 134
    • Cowtown Dog Sports
Re: X-Hoopers as part of NATCH
« Reply #41 on: August 15, 2016, 03:36:54 PM »

Like I said above - we would do them too!

Robin


Sharon Nelson

  • Mother NADAC
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 6054
Re: X-Hoopers as part of NATCH
« Reply #42 on: August 15, 2016, 03:56:53 PM »

Like I said above - we would do them too!

Robin

X-Hoopers would be possible.  X-pens would be best for viewing options!

Sharon
Sharon
In-Sync-Agility

Re: X-Hoopers as part of NATCH
« Reply #43 on: August 16, 2016, 10:04:15 AM »
The point of the thread in the Champs forum is not whether or not a hoop circle should be part of NADAC. It's whether or not it's fair to have it as part of a Championship event when a large percentage of competitors have never seen one. It seems to me that the majority of people saying "it's not so bad, you should try it" are people who have competed a great deal in the class, or at least have had the opportunity to do so. I'm not sure why it's so hard for you to understand the point of view from those who have literally never performed this obstacle/sequence.

Karissa,

Oh, I think that point of view has been very clearly understood. But what you have failed to see is the majority of responses have been people *finding a positive way* to meet this new "challenge", not continually disparaging it. A trainer has said they will focus on it for the next 6 weeks with the *very large* group of students they always bring to Champs. Numerous people have sent in tons of suggestions to get started training this both from a small and large scale. There's been creative photos sent in on how to set something similar up at home or class. Folks who were surprised by this challenge are actively going about *finding a way* to make it work for them. This is how true NADAC Champions work! (OK, in *reality*, it's how ALL true Champions work!  ;D) They see a problem, they find a way to fix it, move on and win, rather than just sit on their butts and harp on the negatives.

You've made it very clear that you aren't coming to Championships this year. Lucky you! You've been given a 13 month "heads up" on one of the possible focus of one of the courses you might see in 2017, if you choose to qualify and enter. 13 months should be *plenty* of time for you to figure out how to train this thing. Actually, it will probably take you, as a handler, maaaaybe 13 minutes and your dog about 13 seconds. It's not exactly rocket science....since your dogs *do* know what hoops are.

So, Karissa, you better jump on the Circle of Fun Train along with the rest of us! It's coming to a town near YOU next year! We've all bought our tickets, climbed aboard and are having fun enjoying each other and our dogs in the Club Car....where are you???

-Kyle

I totally understand what Karissa is saying.  There is ONE club in the Chicagoland area that teaches NADAC and hosts NADAC trials.  That club, for me to train is over 2 hours away on a week night.  I just can't make it there.   All the rest of the clubs teach AKC/USDAA/CPE and now UKI and ASCA are coming in.  So, Kyle, you can say that "a trainer just offered to set it up, train it...."  But sometimes it just isn't feasible for people.  Not everything is as simple as some people make it sound.  I for one, work a full-time job, a part time job, have a house to clean and care for and have a 90 year old mother that I help take care of.  Time is limited.  Add to that, that I don't have a big yard to play in.  I train 1X per week if that.  I simply don't have the time to rent a facility and if I did, then they would not have the equipment necessary.  The fact is, that adding it to Champs IS a large disadvantage to those of us who never see it here. 

The second part she was saying also holds true.  The fact is, Unfortunately in this area, there is very little cross-over.  People either do NADAC or they don't.  The trainers that are out there (other than the 1 club), simply don't run NADAC and don't/won't train for NADAC.  I have hear them say things like "I won't train that crazy distance needed", or "I won't do a venue that has such different obstacles" or "I need my dog to be able to collect and not work away from me and he simply can't do both".  Is it true?  NOPE.  But can I change their mind?  NOPE.  I have gone to USDAA and AKC trials to watch my friends.  I hear the conversations that take place about NADAC whether they know that I run NADAC or not.  Even if I try to defend NADAC, the issue is things like the barrels or hoops.  Now, I have convinced some people that a hoop is simply like a jump without the bar.  They train their puppies on jump standards, what is the difference?  I have convinced some people that a barrel is simply teaching your dog to go around something (like a jump standard).  However, the vast majority do not going to listen.  For whatever reason, NADAC is like a black hole here.    Like Karissa said, there are some that will come and use it for training, there are some, that if there is no other trial around, will come and play for a day, but the vast majority just stay away.  The main complaint that I hear is the "constant change on a whim".  To me that is both good and bad.  Some of the changes are for the better, some are not (in my opinion), but for the most part, we all get heard.  BUT, for those that are thinking about crossing over, adding something like a hoop cirlce would totally cut them out.  Trainers are NOT going to pick it up and teach it.  Not only do they not have the skills necessary to teach it, but they also are not likelly to be supported by their students because it isn't required in any other venue.  And if their students balk at it, so will the trainers because they need to keep their students.  The students pay them to teach them the skills necessary to compete and that particular skill just isn't necessary (in their minds anyway) to compete in AKC, USDAA, CPE, UKI or ASCA.  The fact is, NADAC IS different.  I enjoy NADAC but I was lucky enough that when I started in agility, that club trained NADAC.  That doesn't happen with most newbies anymore.  The only place I could take my "newbie" dog is to an AKC/USDAA facility.  I can guarantee that all of those dogs in her class will end up NOT knowing anything about NADAC except what I have told them. 

And quite honestly Kyle, this comment,  "So, Karissa, you better jump on the Circle of Fun Train along with the rest of us! It's coming to a town near YOU next year! We've all bought our tickets, climbed aboard and are having fun enjoying each other and our dogs in the Club Car....where are you???", is one of the MAIN reasons people don't do NADAC.  I am sure you didn't mean it to sound snarky, but to someone who only does a small amount of NADAC and has other options available, it could definitely come across that way.  Karissa is one of the few people who supports NADAC in her area.  Without her talking it up, do you really think that we will gain competitors? 
Audri, Lily, Cee Cee and Toto, Calypso

Sharon Nelson

  • Mother NADAC
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 6054
Re: X-Hoopers as part of NATCH
« Reply #44 on: August 16, 2016, 10:40:07 AM »
  For whatever reason, NADAC is like a black hole here.   

I totally agree with that.  I wish I could help to promote NADAC in the upper Midwest, but I usually am just hit with massive negativity and no willingness to listen with an open mind.  Years ago we had championships in the Midwest for four years straight.  NADAC was big in the area and yet it was VERY competitive.  At the end of the fourth year, I did announce that we would no longer have a championship event, as the attitudes were not what NADAC was famous for.  I would do anything I could (I even looked at property in the area) to help with the attitudes that I meet in the Midwest of "I quit".  I admire those that continue to "promote" NADAC (not defend) as they have a tough battle in that area.  And yet we have some of the most fun loving, great people that are also from the Midwest!  Those that are not negative are massively positive!  It is an interesting area and I would love to do anything I could to show that NADAC can be fun and positive and successful while really having a great time with your dog.  I wish I could clone those happy positive people and spread the word that NADAC is not the horrid beast that seems to be spread around.

I admire you ability to continue to trial in NADAC, have fun and stay positive!  If we could get NADAC back like it used to be without the level of competitiveness that was there, it would be great for everyone to have that choice.

And yes, I wish I had that magic wand that would send some positive NADAC trainers to the area and show that NADAC can really be good for both dog and handler.  Just allow another choice and not condemn people for taking choices.

Everyone should be able to have choices, but competing in a venue for which there isn't any training to promote the skills always ends up hurting the venue.  Competing in NADAC and not earning any Q's does nothing for the dog, the handler, the club or the venue.  Until there are trainers that are willing to train the needed skills it is somewhat a losing battle.  Until there is that cloning machine or the magic wand!

Sharon
Sharon
In-Sync-Agility