X-Hoopers as part of NATCH

[Sharon Nelson]

Right now, our club doesn't have enough of either the PVC gates or X-pens alone to form the circle.  For the purpose of practice, could we use a combination of both and if so could you give the length of each side minus the hoops?
Thanks,  Linda

Absolutely!  Good practice!

Sharon

[MoabDiane]

The x-pens are 16' long (8 panels that are 2' each).
The original PVC gates were 4' long.

So, one x-pen = 4 gates, between hoops.

The "wings" on the circle are 12' - so 3 gates or one x-pen folded in at the circle end (unless you want to cut them!).

If you are going to use both for practice, I would suggest using the gates on the "near" side of the circle, and the x-pens on the far side - so dogs can see the handler better.

My two cents' worth (minus inflation),
diane

[Amy McGovern]

We are looking forward to trying X-hoopers in VT.  I'm wondering, are we allowed to use gates or does it have to be x-pens?  We happen to have access to a fair amount of gates but don't own enough x-pens. 

-Amy

[Sharon Nelson]

We are looking forward to trying X-hoopers in VT.  I'm wondering, are we allowed to use gates or does it have to be x-pens?  We happen to have access to a fair amount of gates but don't own enough x-pens. 

-Amy

Gates are fine!  Use four gates if possible instead of the three used before.  Three causes the turns to be a bit tighter than desired.  If you only have enough for three, then use three.

Sharon

[Linda W. Anderson]

We are looking forward to trying X-hoopers in VT.  I'm wondering, are we allowed to use gates or does it have to be x-pens?  We happen to have access to a fair amount of gates but don't own enough x-pens. 

-Amy

Gates are fine!  Use four gates if possible instead of the three used before.  Three causes the turns to be a bit tighter than desired.  If you only have enough for three, then use three.

Sharon

Okay. I am still trying to understand the exact number of either gates or x-pens or a combination of both for practicing.  Is this correct:  I can have 4 gates for 3 of the 4 sections going around the circle and one x-pen to finish the circle.   How many sections of the x-pen do I use for that part?  Do I need one or two gates for the wings?  And just to clarify, we can use either gates or x-pens for the VT runs, but not a combination of both.
Linda

[Marcy Matties]

We are looking forward to trying X-hoopers in VT.  I'm wondering, are we allowed to use gates or does it have to be x-pens?  We happen to have access to a fair amount of gates but don't own enough x-pens. 

-Amy

Gates are fine!  Use four gates if possible instead of the three used before.  Three causes the turns to be a bit tighter than desired.  If you only have enough for three, then use three.

Sharon

Okay. I am still trying to understand the exact number of either gates or x-pens or a combination of both for practicing.  Is this correct:  I can have 4 gates for 3 of the 4 sections going around the circle and one x-pen to finish the circle.   How many sections of the x-pen do I use for that part?  Do I need one or two gates for the wings?  And just to clarify, we can use either gates or x-pens for the VT runs, but not a combination of both.
Linda

X-pens are 16" (8 sections x 2' each)  So you would use the entire X-pen for any sections around the circle.  For the wings you use 6 sections of 1 x-pens or 12'.  So if you use gates for the wings then you would use 3 of them, and gates for the circle preferably use 4 of them.  At least that's how I read/interpret it.  But it's practice so make whatever you have fit.

[Sharon Nelson]

  How many sections of the x-pen do I use for that part?  Do I need one or two gates for the wings?  And just to clarify, we can use either gates or x-pens for the VT runs, but not a combination of both.
Linda

You cannot mix gates and x-pens for VT runs.  The rules are the same for VT as they are for a trial and a mix is not allowed.

If you are using gates for he wings, you need three on each side.

Sharon

[Anne Etherton]

I certainly agree with Kyle also. When I first saw the hoop circle at Champs four or more years  ago, it did look intimidating but I've learned how useful it is in teaching directionals. If I were to start a new dog that might be where I'd start.

Sharon, I hope you still feel like competing with those new dogs coming up!

Anne

[Marsha01]

I agree too.  the hoop circle is great for teaching directional to new dogs.  I have a young dog and I have started him this way.

Marsha Orrick

[Kyle]

A couple of my thoughts:

Many dogs, including one of mine, need some time before they can offer new performances in the trial ring.  I have heard many trainers say that there is a delay between teaching a skill and seeing the skill present itself in the trial ring.  In my experience, I see it in about 8 weeks.  I have heard other trainers say 12 weeks, some 4 weeks.  So I would need to be completed teaching the skill prior to 8 weeks out, in order to have a reliable expectation of my dog performing it. 
--Ric Bonner

This could be a really interesting topic for a training conversation! I don't know if you, Ric, are on the Seminar List, but if you are, maybe you'd be willing to transfer this over to there?? 

Thanks,
Kyle

[Sharon Nelson]

A couple of my thoughts:

Many dogs, including one of mine, need some time before they can offer new performances in the trial ring.  I have heard many trainers say that there is a delay between teaching a skill and seeing the skill present itself in the trial ring.  In my experience, I see it in about 8 weeks.  I have heard other trainers say 12 weeks, some 4 weeks.  So I would need to be completed teaching the skill prior to 8 weeks out, in order to have a reliable expectation of my dog performing it. 
--Ric Bonner

This could be a really interesting topic for a training conversation! I don't know if you, Ric, are on the Seminar List, but if you are, maybe you'd be willing to transfer this over to there?? 

Thanks,
Kyle

I know Kyle that we talk about it in "sessions" and I expect and see it all the time that dogs can learn what we are talking about in three sessions, so basically two weeks.  I know in seminars, they have it perfect by the third day and are trial ready.  We see it seminar after seminar and dogs go right to trials and perform beautifully.  All trainers are different.  I am much more of the "more on" and "move forward" in your training and don't bore the dog by repeating what he already knows when learning something new.  I do very little "drilling".

You have seen us start something new and have it perfected by the second day, the third day for sure.  I do believe that it is about the number of sessions trained, not the length of time.  But then I never bought any of the same thing when I was doing obedience.  And I loved my obedience scores also.

I push, too much for some, but I like to see the dog challenged without over pressuring them. 

But that is me and I do understand that there are many other methods and they work great too!!

Sharon

[Kyle]

Just FYI - I absconded with this and moved it to a new topic because I didn't want it to relate directly to X-Hoopers...just wanted it more "general". I put it under "General Discussion" titled "Time & Teaching A New Skill".

 
-Kyle

A couple of my thoughts:

Many dogs, including one of mine, need some time before they can offer new performances in the trial ring.  I have heard many trainers say that there is a delay between teaching a skill and seeing the skill present itself in the trial ring.  In my experience, I see it in about 8 weeks.  I have heard other trainers say 12 weeks, some 4 weeks.  So I would need to be completed teaching the skill prior to 8 weeks out, in order to have a reliable expectation of my dog performing it. 
--Ric Bonner

This could be a really interesting topic for a training conversation! I don't know if you, Ric, are on the Seminar List, but if you are, maybe you'd be willing to transfer this over to there?? 

Thanks,
Kyle

I know Kyle that we talk about it in "sessions" and I expect and see it all the time that dogs can learn what we are talking about in three sessions, so basically two weeks.  I know in seminars, they have it perfect by the third day and are trial ready.  We see it seminar after seminar and dogs go right to trials and perform beautifully.  All trainers are different.  I am much more of the "more on" and "move forward" in your training and don't bore the dog by repeating what he already knows when learning something new.  I do very little "drilling".

You have seen us start something new and have it perfected by the second day, the third day for sure.  I do believe that it is about the number of sessions trained, not the length of time.  But then I never bought any of the same thing when I was doing obedience.  And I loved my obedience scores also.

I push, too much for some, but I like to see the dog challenged without over pressuring them. 

But that is me and I do understand that there are many other methods and they work great too!!

Sharon

[bhodges865]

I know this is off topic but I LOVE NADAC!!  Yeah, you get those that just aren't happy with anything, but I just blow them off now.