Upcoming changes to Hoopers and X-hoopers

[agility junkie]

Hi Chris: I need ten elite hoopers Q's for abbey to get her All Around Natch. currently she has her superior x hoopers title in Novice  and an open x hoopers Q. If combined with hoopers does this mean she has her All Around?

[giddyup]

Just out of curiosity, if you knew this change was coming (as you said, you didn't decide this overnight), then why was it made a requirement for 2017 Champs?

Also, possibly entry numbers may have been low in X-Hoopers and even Barrelers because they weren't required for the regular NATCH, and with so many classes offered a day at trials, usually 8, people either didn't want to run their dogs in that many classes a day or didn't want to spend the money on so many classes a day, especially if it wasn't a NATCH requirement. (and yes, I understand it is for an All Around NATCH).  I do mulitple agility venues, and I notice that a lot of people don't run the newer "games" in AKC because they aren't required for the AKC MACH.  I'm sure it's sort of the same reasoning.  Spending extra money when it doesn't go towards anything (championship).  They did recently come up with a new Grand Champion type of title requiring those classes probably to encourage higher entry numbers. 

And for the record, although I haven't had the chance to do a lot of X-Hoopers, I did enjoy the class and am one of the ones that will be sorry to see it CHANGED.

Jill

[giddyup]

Another question - about point combining.  How will that work?
For example, one of my dogs has:  30 pts in Nov Hoopers
                                                   10 pts in Opn Hoopers
                                                   30 pts in Nov XHoopers
when the points combine, will she have 60 pts in Nov Hoopers and 10 pts in Op Hoopers
                                                                   OR
                                                          30 pts in Nov Hoopers, 30 pts in Op Hoopers and 10 pts in Elite
                                                           Hoopers for a total of the 70 points she has now
                                                                   OR
                                                           all 70 pts in Nov Hoopers

Thanks for your help
Jill

[Chris Nelson]

The points combine by level.

If you have 10 points in novice hoopers and 10 points in novice x hoopers you will nowbhave 20 points in novice.

If you have 10 points in open hoopers and no points in open x hoopers you will have 10 points.



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[Chris Nelson]

For the folks who aren't on facebook you can watch both videos from a link on this page:

Nadac.com/RuleChanges.php

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[Chris Nelson]

Also since this is the forum and it's great for discussing things. 

Why does everyone think that the class is just over with?  This is where i am very confused.

If you like doing those tests from that area of the course, then continue to do them!   I've said it in each video the course design will follow that of x hoopers,  just with more options now that the barrier is gone.

And by the looks of the emails i have gotten so far there is probably going to be a line with bonus points for doing so.   

So why is it the end of the world when in all reality you can run the exact same way you have been?

It will be more challenging, but so far almost everyone who has commented has said the original reason they didn't do it was because their dog wouldn't do distance and the gates helped guide them and now their dog loves it.   So you originally didn't like it because of a challenge.  So now that you know that challenge can be incredibly gratifying when completed why hate the idea of a new challenge, and it's actually a new challenge that you have been able to train for while running for the past 5 years.

I'm just very confused as to what people believe the course design will be.  It will be x hoopers, with the possibility for more options.

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[Marcy Matties]

Also since this is the forum and it's great for discussing things. 

Why does every think that the class is just over with?  This is where i am very confused.

If you like doing those tests from that area of the course, then continue to do them!   I've said it in each video the course design will follow that of x hoopers,  just with more options now that the barrier is gone.

And by the looks of the emails i have gotten so far there is probably going to be a line with bonus points for doing so.   

So why is it the end of the world when in all reality you can run the exact same way you have been?

It will be more challenging, but so far almost everyone who's commented has said the original reason they didn't do it was because their dog wouldn't do distance and the gates helped guide them and now their dog loves it.   So you originally didn't like it because of a challenge.  So now that you know that challenge can be incredibly gratifying when completed why hate the idea of a new challenge, and it's actually a new challenge that you have been able to train for while running for the past 5 years.

I'm just very confused as to what people believe the course design will be.  It will be x hoopers, with the possibility for more options.

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I think the confusion maybe is in the initial video/post it was said more like it would be a combining of XHoopers and #d Hoopers. With the gates removed and the circle maybe moved somewhere else on the course. And people picked up on the "combining" with #d Hoopers that is, to them, a different animal.

[Chris Nelson]

Thanks Marcy!  See that is nice helpful info, lol. 

So since maybe I butchered the wording in the video let me be clear here for everyone.

It WILL be the X-Hoopers pattern.   What I meant, in my head at least.  Is that with the barriers gone it opens up more options for course design.  But it would still just be building on the already well built foundation of X-Hoopers.

[Marcy Matties]

Thanks Marcy!  See that is nice helpful info, lol. 

So since maybe I butchered the wording in the video let me be clear here for everyone.

It WILL be the X-Hoopers pattern.   What I meant, in my head at least.  Is that with the barriers gone it opens up more options for course design.  But it would still just be building on the already well built foundation of X-Hoopers.

Thanks Chris!  That makes me very happy.  That isn't what I envisioned from your first video.  I really didn't have a "vision" of what you were meaning, but I saw it as more a melding of the two.  This clarification excites me.  It will be MORE of a challenge than with the gates and I look forward to trying my crazy boy without the gates and maybe with a line!

[Vicki Storrs]

And your clarification will, I believe, be nice and helpful, too, Chris!  Thank you.  I was also one who just wasn't certain quite what you meant and this helps.
You make essentially a business decision (because NADAC HAS to run as a business to survive, much as we might all, even you, wish otherwise) to try to modify/merge some classes because they aren't proving to be financially viable as is for NADAC or the clubs.  All of us hit the forum crying "but we LOVE X Hoopers!" (and being one of those who got to try X Hoopers first at a FunRaiser WAY BACK I know it didn't just get introduced yesterday, so all of us saying give it more time...well, you actually gave it a LOT of time). Was it just about 6 months or so ago the forum was inflamed by "X Hoopers at Champs??!!  How dare you!" ? 
I'm not sure there is any way for you to win, Chris (as Sharon can very well tell you I suspect).  The old "some of the people some of the time..." But most of us LOVE NADAC, and love the people who run it and do all the support work and love how it continues to make us stretch to reach training and handling goals many of us wouldn't have thought possible.  So thanks Chris, and thanks to ALL the NADAC crew.  This too shall pass and we'll come out the other side okay...and ready for the NEXT change!!  (Like maybe me finally breaking down and getting on Facebook...Ack!! :-)
Vicki Storrs

[Chris Nelson]

Thank you Vicki!

You can also watch any videos that relate to rule changes from this page:
nadac.com/RuleChanges.php

Then you don't have to make the facebook transition

[dogrsqr]

First of all Chris don't take anything personally.  People need to vent, to at least feel like they've been heard, it's part of the process of accepting change for some of us.  I think for me it feels a little bit like my handler just did a reverse flow pivot ... going from you need 2 X-Hoopers Q's to qualify for Champs to now the class is going away.  So I was going in one direction and now have to collect to go in the other. 

I think a lot of us would/will feel more comfortable if/when we see some sample courses.  Now I'm concerned with talk of obstacles beyond the "circle".  I can't run with my dog and I won't do bonus line distance with her because neither of us is comfortable with that much distance for that long of sequences.  When you mention obstacles on the other side of the "circle" now I'm envisioning a course where I can't find a spot to handle; where I might get stuck IN the circle and my dog is not going to come back thru the circle with me standing in it.

I would consider it a compliment that you have so many people passionate about NADAC agility.

Gina Pizzo

[Chris Nelson]

Hey Gina,

Passion is good!
I did just do a new video showing what a course could look like, it's on the page I linked above for Vicki.

I do agree the new courses will sometimes be built in such a way that handling them from where the original circle was will be very difficult.  But the good news is that it would still be a 10 point Q to step into that area now and be in the correct position for your dog.

[philwala]

Will ALL Hoopers/X-Hoopers points be automatically combined, or only those which have not already been used to earn titles?  For example, if I already have my HP-N and XHP-N titles, do I keep both those titles, or does my XHP-N automatically become an O-HP-N (assuming “combination” essentially means transferring XHP points to HP)?  If I already have my S-HP-N, does the XHP-N title go away and just become 30 superfluous HP-N points? Just thinking of scenarios in which some might NOT want certain points combined, especially if they already have all their HP titles at a given level, and would like to hang on to their “orphaned” XHP title.

[Chris Nelson]

They will automatically combine to all be just called 'Hoopers'.

But there will be an identifying marker on my end.  So if someone did wish to keep their XHP titles I could then transfer them back so that title would show up.