Upcoming changes to Hoopers and X-hoopers

[danforth]

Chris

I really appreciate your videos.   They are great!   I do have a couple of questions.

The markers you mentioned demarck a triangular area on each side of the circle.   Is that the area from which you run the distance challenge?    Do you have to pick one or the other?

Is the distance challenge available for open and novice runners who have been running and enjoying X hoopers or only for elite?

And is the all around award still available for those who get superior hoopers at each level?

Thanks.

Isabel

[Chris Nelson]

1) It would be the same as where the circle currently is.  So long as you're on the south side of the line you would be good!

2) Not sure yet.   Very happy we have some time to figure that one out.

3) All Around will still include Hoopers

[mephalon]

2) Not sure yet.   Very happy we have some time to figure that one out.

PLEASE have the option available at Novice/Open level.    I know we can always try the distance challenge regardless of whether it would be for an extra 5 points or not but the Novice/Open people should be rewarded for being successful with the distance as well.   I have always wanted a bonus option in the other games at the lower levels as well but that has never happened.  A long time ago I believe there were bonus options as I remember going for one with my Otis who never made it out of Novice but nothing in recent memory.  If people had the option at Novice/Open they may be more inclined to try them when the courses are less complex than at the Elite level.   I know that I for one would give it shot at all levels- maybe I would step over the line every time but my first thought would certainly be to give it a try.

Mary

[Edraith]

Thanks for the sample course video! Looks fun.
I think ill pull xhp vt stuff to practice handling from outside in prep for hopefully the 5pt bonus lines which i hope will be an option for all levels i never tried it since i dont have gates and limited training time so was working on other things but should get us used to the patterning then!

[Jean Sather (McCreight)]

Timing is good since our club's trial committee is meeting tomorrow.

Just curious about numbers of Hoopers classes that can be offered in a weekend (apologize if this has been addressed elsewhere, I'm trying to get caught up on a week's backlog of Forum posts and haven't looked at all of the new videos yet).

Our club has usually offered the maximum number of classes we can at trials.  In the past we have often included two rounds of Hoopers AND two rounds of X-Hoopers (and two rounds of Barrelers) in addition to all other classes usually offered.  (I might add that for us this has made the difference between running at a profit, or not .....  )

Question -- after this has been implemented in April, will the limit be two rounds of the "new" Hoopers for the weekend?

And second question, will it be offered as "2 runs on the same course" like the current Barrelers (and old X-Hoopers) runs?  Or two runs on different courses, like existing Numbered Hoopers (assuming we are not offering a BETA format trial).

Thanks,

[Chris Nelson]

Timing is good since our club's trial committee is meeting tomorrow.

Just curious about numbers of Hoopers classes that can be offered in a weekend (apologize if this has been addressed elsewhere, I'm trying to get caught up on a week's backlog of Forum posts and haven't looked at all of the new videos yet).

Our club has usually offered the maximum number of classes we can at trials.  In the past we have often included two rounds of Hoopers AND two rounds of X-Hoopers (and two rounds of Barrelers) in addition to all other classes usually offered.  (I might add that for us this has made the difference between running at a profit, or not .....  )

Question -- after this has been implemented in April, will the limit be two rounds of the "new" Hoopers for the weekend?

And second question, will it be offered as "2 runs on the same course" like the current Barrelers (and old X-Hoopers) runs?  Or two runs on different courses, like existing Numbered Hoopers (assuming we are not offering a BETA format trial).

Thanks,

For now we're going to limit it to 2 rounds.

With the exception of trials that already have their premiums out with X-Hoopers and Hoopers on the same weekend.  For those trials we're going to allow four rounds just as a by product of the rule change.

But any new premiums submitted will need to just have 2 rounds.

[Lynn in VT]

I'm mixed as to whether or not I like the change, but I do know one thing:  Given that I already have 18 gates I've been schlepping with all of my other equipment, I will still be using the original X-hoopers in my training sessions because I have found it to be very helpful in getting both dogs and handlers more accustomed to working at a distance, learning the handling required, and the CONFIDENCE that it builds between the dog and handler. 

As with the Mark buckets, I thank Sharon and NADAC for offering creative and great training tools!

Lynn

[Jean Sather (McCreight)]

and part 2 of my question, Chris? (Thanks for answering the first part)

And second question, will it be offered as "2 runs on the same course" like the current Barrelers (and old X-Hoopers) runs?  Or two runs on different courses, like existing Numbered Hoopers (assuming we are not offering a BETA format trial).

[MoabDiane]

I liked x-hoopers; hoopers, not so much.  But I am fine with the change!  Imagine that.

And yes, I have a bunch of PVC gates that I'll probably never use.  Never bought extra x-pens and use them for all sorts of things, so no worries there.

What frustrated me about the going-away of EGC back when was all those points (OK, not as many as some, I'm sure...) that just counted for nothing except Lifetime Points (which ain't nuthin', I agree). They were at lower levels (novice and open), so no point in transferring (e.g., X-chances to chances).  Or Gaters points that just sit there.

That frustration vented - THANK YOU for combining hoopers and x-hoopers points!!!!

Now to just get more Barrelers offered!

diane

[Tammy Lenski]

Count me in among the bummed folks. Chris, your videos have been helpful for understanding what's going to change and I certainly understand that change is worth considering as one way to address low entry numbers.

I and my older agility dog LOVE x-hoopers, in part because it's the first place she learned to work comfortably away from me with distance -- and for me to learn I didn't have to be that close to her .

As I work with my new girl, it's hard to imagine working that tight a circle from a distance without the initial support of the gates at the novice level. At more advanced levels it feels very doable for a dog that's built up to it. The gates give a newbie dog some clarity about options -- only 4 "exits" to choose from. My older girl first found speed and confidence with x-hoopers.

I'm one of those people who will deliberately seek out something that challenges me, as I did when I was intimidated by both x-hoopers and chances. Now, both are my favorite courses to run. So I will continue to run the new hoopers and be challenged in new ways, but I'm disappointed that for new dogs, the "support" offered by the gate circle will be gone. Maybe it was a crutch in some ways, but man, it was fun and less visually confusing for a newbie dog.

[Anne Etherton]

Where are the videos of the new hoopers courses?

Anne

[Chris Nelson]

Anne,

We did a video showing what the courses could look like, we haven't filmed any dogs running yet.
It can be found here:
nadac.com/RuleChanges.php

it's video #3

[Team Twodog]

Here's another vote for providing scaled down bonus opportunities at the novice and open levels. That feature alone would make the new class interesting and unique. Since the circle is essentially a box, it seems appropriate to me to make this a course that you must handle from outside the box (at any level) to get the bonus.

One great advantage of losing the gates that I haven't seen mentioned is that these courses will be faster to build, which is always helpful.

Kim

[danforth]

I have been running X hoopers, completed Nov superior, and had already earned a few Q's at open level. I. would really like the opportunity to run the circle as if the gates were there.

I was. confused by the markers you mentioned in the video.  could you post that course with a line drawn to show just what the bonus line would be?

I really would like to have same line at open available.

Isabel

Sent from my KFASWI using Forum Fiend v1.3.3.

[Rosemary]

Thank you for the video. It makes things much easier to understand.  The way I understand it now is we are getting the best of both worlds. Hoopers points will now go to the all around NATCH. Yay. A line will be drawn for those who like the distance challenge AND they now can get extra points for it. For those that did not like the distance challenge that the gates imposed, they can enjoy running the course and earn a full 10 point Q. Sounds like a win for everyone. I'm excited to see how it plays out in practice.