Author Topic: Champs closing date, warm-up area details, etc.  (Read 4232 times)

Chris Nelson

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Re: Champs closing date, warm-up area details, etc.
« Reply #15 on: June 04, 2017, 08:04:04 PM »
Also, USDAA i am fairly certain runs 4 rings at the same time.

I think everyone will be okay :)

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CPE and CKC nationals have had 6 rings run at the same time, all next to each other. No real issues.

But then, it seems a lot of people here do NADAC only, and may never have entered multiple ring trials, based on how often I have seen people chastised on this forum for mentioning other venues.

The defense being used here is that a dog who qualifies for champs should be able to handle nearby busy-ness. Does hinge on what people are used to? Are you trying to recreate the NADAC experience at champs? How many multi-ring trials have been held in NADAC this past year? Is that a way to define what to do about contact use near the champs ring?

It's more the fact that Championships have been multi ring in the beginning.  And we have always had warm up obstacles in the years since when we quit doing multi ring.    History is hard to break at times :)

I think if you end up coming this year Lisa you'll find it to be quite agreeable.  And I think everyone else will do great as well.

Vicki Storrs

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Re: Champs closing date, warm-up area details, etc.
« Reply #16 on: June 05, 2017, 11:51:50 AM »
And would like to state my opinion/observation after a lot of years of ANALLY reading EVERY post, first to the NADAC Yahoo list and then to the Forum...people are only chastised for mentioning other venues when they do it in a critical manner, or with a tone that implies ANY one is "better" OR "worse" than the other.  Though since this is a NADAC forum, saying I LOVE NADAC would, in my opinion, not be inappropriate, nor does it mean that it is any better than any other, merely that the overall environment of NADAC, from courses to people, suit ME. But it would make sense that discussing the pros or cons of other venues would be inappropriate here.  So we're asked not to do so.
Everybody chooses their own fun.
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Chris Nelson

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Re: Champs closing date, warm-up area details, etc.
« Reply #17 on: June 05, 2017, 12:38:27 PM »
I would like to echo what Vicki has mentioned.

We've always taken and neutral stance on the topic of other venues.

Meaning we got on people for bashing other venues, just as we would if they were bashing NADAC.

If we failed in that goal I would like to know where so that we can correct it.

We like to keep things positive and moving forward on the forum.   And I don't like seeing other venues talked about badly here because I think we can be above that.   
If I failed in addressing someone talking badly of another venue please let me know.

Lorrie Stelz

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Re: Champs closing date, warm-up area details, etc.
« Reply #18 on: June 05, 2017, 04:20:35 PM »
I realize that it's been awhile since my dogs have been in trials that run in 2 rings at the same time, but there are ALWAYS distractions at trials.  Dogs barking, other courses being built, dogs warming up, dogs playing in the background. At my last trial, there was a youth 5K going on in the same park in view of the dogs.  No one was bothered by it.  (and it was funny, because one of my friend's dogs ran into my dog's ring and bopped into him.  Kaiden hesitated and looked at the dog like "hum... that was strange!"  The judge told us we could rerun it, but we were clean already, and I chose to finish.  We finished the course fine for a Q.  Never had that happen before, and in one of the classes we struggle with, but my dog recovered within a second.)  We even in the past had army helicopters flying over our trials in IA and only a tiny handful of dogs had trouble.  Distractions should be well tolerated by the dogs entered at Champs already.  JMO.  I personally would like to see 2 rings running concurently at Champs to speed things along.  Dogs might be a bit distracted at first, but should be able to adjust.  That's what is great with Pre-trial runs.  Your dog gets used to being in the big arena before the main "show". It's not uncommon for dogs to be a bit more nervous there.  Heck, as a handler, I sure am.  And, twice now, my Veteran (soon to be DD dog) had a major panic moment at Champs.  But, I was able to refocus him and we Qd on our runs.  Maybe put the DW at the far end of the ring.  But, distractions are nothing new for agility dogs.  Certainly not as fast as our courses run and how much is going on around them all the time.
On one more note, 2 rings were running at the same time with Pre-trial last year, and although I wasn't watching many runs, it didn't seem to be a big issue. Dogs handled it fine.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2017, 04:34:21 PM by Lorrie Stelz »
Lorrie Stelz

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Tripp: NATCH 4, VersNATCH 3, All Around NATCH BB's Embrace The Journey HIT HIC HOF
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MoabDiane

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Re: Champs closing date, warm-up area details, etc.
« Reply #19 on: June 05, 2017, 08:56:54 PM »
OK, can't  hold my tongue (fingers?) any longer.

Agree that Champs-level dogs should be able to deal with all kinds of distractions.
Yes, we've run with dogs running in adjacent rings many times with no problems.

HOWEVER, what I objected to in South Jordan was the waiting in line while in full view and sound of the dogwalk - no curtain that close to the incoming door.
I don't know how far away it was, but it seemed awfully close. I can usually keep my dogs' attention to me while waiting (well, except when Bracken hears a dog going through a tunnel on the other side of the curtains and sticks his nose underneath!  LOL!).  But this was just a bit too close for comfort.

JMHO (and if it's there, with no curtain, we certainly will just deal with it!).
diane

Bostondirtdogs07

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Re: Champs closing date, warm-up area details, etc.
« Reply #20 on: June 06, 2017, 02:22:42 PM »
Thanks for all of the additional info Chris!  My two cents....  I like the idea of having some sort of contact equipment in the warm-up area.  Some championship events actually have a warm-up round so I think this, along with the options for side runs is a great idea.  We run at two ring trials on a regular basis so it doesn't bother me to have two events in the same arena. 

Re: Champs closing date, warm-up area details, etc.
« Reply #21 on: June 06, 2017, 04:10:13 PM »
Also, USDAA i am fairly certain runs 4 rings at the same time.

I think everyone will be okay :)

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Many of us don't do multiple venues and I have never been to a multiple ring trial in all of my time in NADAC.  We are lucky to have NADAC trials at all and we definitely don't have enough to hold multiple rings.  I think putting another ring at Champs, when we all work so hard to get there and pay a lot of money to be there is quite unfair to the teams in the big ring at the time.  There may be a handler that is out there screaming (meaning they are loud, not being mean) at their dog, while you are trying to run your dog and your dog can't hear YOU properly while you are in the main ring.  Not to mention that if a dog is running over the dogwalk while your dog is on the dog walk, it could be a dangerous situation if either dog gets distracted.   You can say it is a "training issue", but the reality is, most of us do not have the opportunity to train that. 
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Lorrie Stelz

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Re: Champs closing date, warm-up area details, etc.
« Reply #22 on: June 06, 2017, 04:44:33 PM »
sounds like the side rings are going on at the same time in there without doubt, so we'll have to get used to it.  Doesn't bother me, except that when I run Chances, I'm not real quiet.  But, those areas are usually pretty noisy anyway unless it's Sweeps.  So hopefully I'll not be too loud.  Might have to crank my volume down a bit.
Lorrie Stelz

Kaiden: NATCH 10, VersNATCH 8 Tartan Bay More Than Meets The Eye MX MXJ MXF O-HP-E XBR-E IT HIC HOF
Tripp: NATCH 4, VersNATCH 3, All Around NATCH BB's Embrace The Journey HIT HIC HOF
& ret. Chaney: NATCH 8 VersNATCH 5 Wildblue Enchanted MX MXJ MJB MXF S-HP-E HOF

Billie Rosen

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Re: Champs closing date, warm-up area details, etc.
« Reply #23 on: June 07, 2017, 08:37:33 AM »
For those people who don't have multi-ring NADAC trials and only do NADAC venue, you might have to get creative in training your dog to ignore the distraction of another ring running simultaneously.  One idea - if there is a dog park or similar type of activity, take some jumps, hoops, weave poles, and whatever other equipment you have, and work your dog in the vicinity of the dog park while dogs are playing in the park.  (Don't go into the park with the other dogs, just work outside the park and use the dogs inside as a distraction).  Or you can go to a local park with kids playing in the playground.  You could set up two sets of equipment, and use baby gates, fencing etc. between the two sets and have a friend work their dog on one set of equipment and you work your dog on the other.  In other words, you may not be able to totally replicate the situation you and your dog will face at Champs, but you should be able to approximate the challenge of multiple rings if you use your creativity during the next several months before we all head to Ohio. 
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Marcy Matties

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Re: Champs closing date, warm-up area details, etc.
« Reply #24 on: June 07, 2017, 10:09:38 AM »
The reason we give them more obstacles to warm up on, as mentioned before, is that we really hate having folks spend an entire year to get to champs, and then blow their runs.

It's nice to let people get the bugs out a bit and have nice good runs that make the competition fun and competitive.

Regardless of what happens with the warm up area, the side runs are happening in the same arena.   It will be as far away from the main ring as possible.  But that happening is a 100% sure thing at this point.     So there will be that distraction to work with.   Which again, should not be a terrible issue for a Championship level dog.

Thanks Chris.  I know things change once you get on site.  But maybe it would help allay people's fears if you could do some kind of a tentative diagram of what you anticipate the entire arena looking like...  where the official arena will be, the staging area, and particularly where the side runs might be.  As far away as possible is an encouraging description for most, but for others who are more tentative then maybe a simple diagram would help ease the anxiety about going.  I think anyone that has been understands the staging area and what might and might not be there as far as warmup equipment.  But the side runs is not something a lot of people might be familiar with - at least as far as having them in the "same place".  It was easy when they were in a different building like in Springfield - but what does that look like this year? 

Again, I understand it could change some once you get there.  But I think some people are visualizing a side-run ring right "next to" the Champs ring.
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Chris Nelson

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Re: Champs closing date, warm-up area details, etc.
« Reply #25 on: June 07, 2017, 12:27:42 PM »
The side runs will be about 60 feet from the other arena.   The way it would be set up I would say the contacts in each ring will be over 150 feet apart. 

The photo attached is a preliminary draft of the arena.

The staging areas will also be able to avoid the side run area pretty well too.  By about 20 feet minimum.

The side runs area will also be very well blocked off.    There will be a 4 rail vinyl fence, lined with the purple curtain material so that no one can see in or out.


Marcy Matties

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Re: Champs closing date, warm-up area details, etc.
« Reply #26 on: June 07, 2017, 03:04:23 PM »
Thanks Chris.  As usual you are awesome!  Hopefully people can now "see" the answer rather than speculating about what it might be.  You know how the imagination can run wild   ;D ;D ;D ;D
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danforth

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Re: Champs closing date, warm-up area details, etc.
« Reply #27 on: June 07, 2017, 04:39:45 PM »
I still do not see where the side runs will be.  Are they in the pre-trial ring?

Isabel

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Foomin Z

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Re: Champs closing date, warm-up area details, etc.
« Reply #28 on: June 07, 2017, 06:16:33 PM »
OK, can't  hold my tongue (fingers?) any longer.

Agree that Champs-level dogs should be able to deal with all kinds of distractions.
Yes, we've run with dogs running in adjacent rings many times with no problems.

HOWEVER, what I objected to in South Jordan was the waiting in line while in full view and sound of the dogwalk - no curtain that close to the incoming door.
I don't know how far away it was, but it seemed awfully close. I can usually keep my dogs' attention to me while waiting (well, except when Bracken hears a dog going through a tunnel on the other side of the curtains and sticks his nose underneath!  LOL!).  But this was just a bit too close for comfort.

JMHO (and if it's there, with no curtain, we certainly will just deal with it!).
diane
I thought from pictures I saw of other champs that the curtains seemed taller than people. They're not?

Chris Nelson

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Re: Champs closing date, warm-up area details, etc.
« Reply #29 on: June 07, 2017, 06:18:39 PM »
I still do not see where the side runs will be.  Are they in the pre-trial ring?

Isabel

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Yes!