2018 Champs

[Sharon Nelson]

I think what really needs to happen is a more detailed explanation on the website of what is required at Championships in both Elite and Pre-Elite.

And it is worth noting that the requirements for Pre-Elite have been very close to the same every year it's been used, including the last time we were at Springfield when we only had 180 dogs...So that's not the reason we had so many entries this year.    We had more Pre-Elite dogs this year, but we also had more Elite Dogs.

Maybe the name is misleading since Elite dogs could be entering into Pre-Elite.   But I still stick with my original comment that just because you are in Elite does not mean you are ready for the Elite division at Championships.

Chris, we had 258 dogs, after scratches, in Springfield, in 2016.  We started with 273, but then had some with injuries, in heat, handlers injured, etc.  258 at the event.

197 in Double Digit and Elite

51 in Pre-Elite
10 in Stakes


I am not sure where the 180 number comes in.

Sharon

We weren’t in Springfield in 2016. We were there in 2013 and 2015...
Vicki

253 in 2013
251 in 2015

Sharon

[Chris Nelson]

Hmm just not the number I remember being told


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[Sharon Nelson]

Hmm just not the number I remember being told

You were there, Chris, running the show while I was in the hospital having cancer surgery!  You did great!!  It prepared you well for this year's successful event!

Sharon

[Chris Nelson]

I think what really needs to happen is a more detailed explanation on the website of what is required at Championships in both Elite and Pre-Elite.

And it is worth noting that the requirements for Pre-Elite have been very close to the same every year it's been used, including the last time we were at Springfield when we only had 180 dogs...So that's not the reason we had so many entries this year.    We had more Pre-Elite dogs this year, but we also had more Elite Dogs.

Maybe the name is misleading since Elite dogs could be entering into Pre-Elite.   But I still stick with my original comment that just because you are in Elite does not mean you are ready for the Elite division at Championships.

Chris, we had 258 dogs, after scratches, in Springfield, in 2016.  We started with 273, but then had some with injuries, in heat, handlers injured, etc.  258 at the event.

197 in Double Digit and Elite

51 in Pre-Elite
10 in Stakes


I am not sure where the 180 number comes in.

Sharon

We weren’t in Springfield in 2016. We were there in 2013 and 2015...
Vicki

253 in 2013
251 in 2015

Sharon

I remember having those numbers when entries closed, but not when the event actually ran.   

Since we only had 201 regular entry dogs in Salt lake in 2014 I just can't imagine Springfield the next year, which was smaller, being that much larger.
Maybe my memory of the actual number of dogs that ran is just terrible.

[Sharon Nelson]

I remember having those numbers when entries closed, but not when the event actually ran.   

Since we only had 201 regular entry dogs in Salt lake in 2014 I just can't imagine Springfield the next year, which was smaller, being that much larger.
Maybe my memory of the actual number of dogs that ran is just terrible.

At Springfiled, we closed with a lot higher but lost some due to handler injuries, job changes, dog injuries, etc.

Salt Lake in 2014 ran with our lowest entry of 237, after withdrawals.

Sharon

[Chris Nelson]

I remember having those numbers when entries closed, but not when the event actually ran.   

Since we only had 201 regular entry dogs in Salt lake in 2014 I just can't imagine Springfield the next year, which was smaller, being that much larger.
Maybe my memory of the actual number of dogs that ran is just terrible.

At Springfiled, we closed with a lot higher but lost some due to handler injuries, job changes, dog injuries, etc.

Salt Lake in 2014 ran with our lowest entry of 237, after withdrawals.

Sharon

Guess my memory is just not what it used to be.

[Sharon Nelson]

Guess my memory is just not what it used to be.

I think you have a LOT on your plate!  Much bigger things to worry about than that!

Hug Carson for me!

Sharon

[Janice_Shavor]

I had a wonderful time at Champs with 1 dog running in Elite/Vet and 1 in Pre-elite.  And I struggled with whether to go ahead and get those last 2 runs in Elite Regular.  Thanks to some good advice, I went back to Open Regular and worked on speed.  Buddy is very much a velcro dog and I was worried about the logistics of running 2 dogs at 4" in Elite/Vet.  He has no Elite Chances Qs.  Bella did fine, but Mr. Buddy really did well.  He placed every round!! Even that regular/weavers round where he walked the weaves but was so focused on being accurate!  I was absolutely thrilled with his 8th place ribbon for that round.

So, yes, next Champs we go to, he will be in Elite/Vet.  And, yes, I will work his distance.  But for him, under 2017 rules, holding back on Elite regular runs was our best choice.  And no, he never came close to being in the final round.  And while watching it, I wasn't sure I had any more runs in me.  Just like I was so grateful I did not win a raffle basket!  No room to take one home!

[knittingdog]

Just wanted to put my 2 cents in for preElite.  My dog doesn't have his Open Reg title yet and is still very young (2 years old), but I wanted to take him since it was a great opportunity for exposing him to a big event like Champs.  PreElite gave us this opportunity! 

Robin & Surge

[BeckyAH]

I am just going to throw out there, for (the few) people talking about the 'quality' of the event, that it is important to remember that the fewer people who enter, the more expensive it is for every individual competitor.

I think people need to know what to expect of the courses they'll find so they can decide for themselves.   But the cost of the event is the cost of the event, and the more people it is divided by, the better off everyone is and the more secure the future of the event.

[Kyle]

I think what really needs to happen is a more detailed explanation on the website of what is required at Championships in both Elite and Pre-Elite.

And it is worth noting that the requirements for Pre-Elite have been very close to the same every year it's been used, including the last time we were at Springfield when we only had 180 dogs...So that's not the reason we had so many entries this year.    We had more Pre-Elite dogs this year, but we also had more Elite Dogs.

Maybe the name is misleading since Elite dogs could be entering into Pre-Elite.   But I still stick with my original comment that just because you are in Elite does not mean you are ready for the Elite division at Championships.

Good idea for having a more detailed explanation of what to expect in "Pre-Elite". It might help a lot of folks prior to entering. Having it on the website and included on the Premium might help too. Info about the increased number of obstacles, 12 weave poles in just about every run, possible Elite style difficulty on runs and that they'll possibly be competing against Elite titled dogs might be good for folks to read about ahead of time.

I do understand that the requirements have been the same for awhile, but you had mentioned you were making some possible changes. I was just kinda hopin' you'd change the ability to have Elite Q's in Pre-Elite so I had to wait to see what you sent out before sending my opinion. 

I agree that the name "Pre-Elite" is misleading. There's got to be an alternative creative name for it, I just can't think of one right now.   

Yes, Chris, you and I totally agree that some dogs running in Elite may not be ready for Championships style courses and difficulties. Totally agree! But what I hope doesn't change is that level of difficulty. Championships should not be for the "faint of heart"  , but I would certainly hope that it continues to retain the whole NADAC-ian "vibe" to the courses and the sense of fun fellowship we've always enjoyed!!

-Kyle

[Chris Nelson]

We will definitely always strive to keep the Elite division as challenging as possible.    We had to shorten a lot of the courses this year from our original vision, but that was just because no one really enjoys being in the arena at 1AM.    Luckily we always had everyone done before 9PM if not earlier.

We've got some ideas for Gillette this year so that we can use the longer courses again and really test everyone.

So there is no danger of Elite getting easier

[Audri, Cee Cee, Lily, Toto, and Calypso]

I personally like the idea of leaving the Open as a option for the elite level.  My beagle has run elite both times in 2015 and 2017.  This year she ran DD because she is 12.  She will NEVER earn an elite chances Q.  She just doesn't have the distance in her, and I don't typically run her in elite regular or jumpers either, especially last year because of her age.  She doesn't need to be doing those long courses.  However, she does very well, for a beagle, in Champs and I liked that I was able to run her with the "big dogs".  Plus, I don't know that running her in pre-elite would have been all that fair to the other dogs in pre-elite.  She is a seasoned dog, and most of the dogs in pre-elite are newbies.  I am not saying she would have won, because after all, she is a beagle, but I don't think she was at the pre-elite level either.  I like the current qualifications for them.  If people hold back their dogs just to be in pre-elite, then that is their choice.  Is is correct?  It all depends on them and their dogs and where they are.  There are some dogs that have earned 80 points in elite and are fabulous dogs.  There are others that earning 80 point has been a chore and quite frankly sometimes lucky!  I would hope that competitors put their dog where they feel the "fit" best and not hold their dog back so they can win....

[Audri, Cee Cee, Lily, Toto, and Calypso]

We will definitely always strive to keep the Elite division as challenging as possible.    We had to shorten a lot of the courses this year from our original vision, but that was just because no one really enjoys being in the arena at 1AM.    Luckily we always had everyone done before 9PM if not earlier.

We've got some ideas for Gillette this year so that we can use the longer courses again and really test everyone.

So there is no danger of Elite getting easier

I actually thought the courses were quite challenging this year even though they were shorter.  There was so much off course potential, and a lot of possibilities for errors.  They were definitely not for the faint of heart!  I saw even the "really good dogs" making errors with dropped bars, off courses, etc.  And I did really enjoy getting out of there at a decent time, especially since hotels were 30-40 minutes away! 

[dogrsqr]

We will definitely always strive to keep the Elite division as challenging as possible.    We had to shorten a lot of the courses this year from our original vision, but that was just because no one really enjoys being in the arena at 1AM.    Luckily we always had everyone done before 9PM if not earlier.

We've got some ideas for Gillette this year so that we can use the longer courses again and really test everyone.

So there is no danger of Elite getting easier

I was also happy to see shorter courses.  The other reason I quit going to Champs was because in 2004 I really did NOT appreciate trying to run a 43 obstacle course at elevation.  My dog was fine but me not so much. 

I also thought the off course possibilities were endless and we found at least one on all courses but barrelers (oddly enough).

Gina