Author Topic: 2017 Championships Group Info Emails  (Read 1267 times)

Foomin Z

  • *****
  • Posts: 87
Re: 2017 Championships Group Info Emails
« Reply #15 on: August 24, 2017, 03:15:01 PM »

Double-digit dogs run the same course as Pre-Elite for the rounds that have a shortened course. The only difference is that the Pre-Elite dogs don't get judged in the distance component and the DD dogs do.

Pre-Elite is thought of as the "baby dog" division by most people. I can't imagine there are a large number of double digit Pre-Elite entries since the limitation of 100 Elite Regular points was put into place. If being judged against other DD dogs is of importance to you it sounds like Chris is offering up a great solution to move into the Double-Digit "Elite" class.

Groupings have NEVER been guaranteed or published until after the close of entries. And there has never been an age separation for Pre-Elite.
None of this was said in the premium. How should any new person know these things? Sure, the forum is available for asking questions, but one would have to think of asking for every single detail in the first place. Saying things like "this has never happened" or "this is what we did in previous years" is not helpful to someone new who knows nothing about the past.

This is why a championships/nationals premium should be as detailed as possible, and once the rules are written in it, there should be no deviations after publication. Also, rules should be decided and defined  before the qualification period begins. New people can be scared off, or made uninterested in an event, by not knowing ahead of time how to do a thing correctly.

Linda W. Anderson

  • Trial Secretary
  • *****
  • Posts: 964
Re: 2017 Championships Group Info Emails
« Reply #16 on: August 24, 2017, 05:18:03 PM »

Double-digit dogs run the same course as Pre-Elite for the rounds that have a shortened course. The only difference is that the Pre-Elite dogs don't get judged in the distance component and the DD dogs do.

Pre-Elite is thought of as the "baby dog" division by most people. I can't imagine there are a large number of double digit Pre-Elite entries since the limitation of 100 Elite Regular points was put into place. If being judged against other DD dogs is of importance to you it sounds like Chris is offering up a great solution to move into the Double-Digit "Elite" class.

Groupings have NEVER been guaranteed or published until after the close of entries. And there has never been an age separation for Pre-Elite.
None of this was said in the premium. How should any new person know these things? Sure, the forum is available for asking questions, but one would have to think of asking for every single detail in the first place. Saying things like "this has never happened" or "this is what we did in previous years" is not helpful to someone new who knows nothing about the past.

This is why a championships/nationals premium should be as detailed as possible, and once the rules are written in it, there should be no deviations after publication. Also, rules should be decided and defined  before the qualification period begins. New people can be scared off, or made uninterested in an event, by not knowing ahead of time how to do a thing correctly.

Obviously not all possible scenarios can be thought of in advance.  Groupings are dependent on how many dogs qualify/enter at a given height/jump height.   Since Vet Dog/Handler groups and Double Digit are age based, those groups are somewhat set in the Elite division.  I am very thankful to have the information Chris sent out in advance of Champs.   And I very thankful my dogs and I are able to compete at Champs.   I'm sorry you can't see this from my perspective.  =(
Linda
Linda W. Anderson - Dogs have only one fault, their lives are too short!

mephalon

  • Trial Secretary
  • *****
  • Posts: 176
Re: 2017 Championships Group Info Emails
« Reply #17 on: August 24, 2017, 05:30:36 PM »
Well the premium does say ""Veterans may or may not be split into a different division in Pre- Elite, depending upon entry numbers" so anyone reading it knew there may or may not be a split in pre-elite.

Since I run a double digit dog that I was getting qualified in pre-elite I did what I imagined most people would have done- I emailed Chris, explained my specific situation and got clarification right away.  That way I knew exactly what kind of course Rox, as a double digit vet would be running at Champs. 

Chris was amazingly helpful and responsive. 
Mary P.

MoabDiane

  • 2016 Online Seminar Group
  • *****
  • Posts: 410
Re: 2017 Championships Group Info Emails
« Reply #18 on: August 24, 2017, 08:41:13 PM »
I've been to many a Champs event - not counting....but lots.

One thing I learned early on - and believe me, this was HARD for me! - was that the absolutely most important thing is to BE FLEXIBLE!

MoabDiane

  • 2016 Online Seminar Group
  • *****
  • Posts: 410
Re: 2017 Championships Group Info Emails
« Reply #19 on: August 24, 2017, 08:45:36 PM »
I've been to many Champs (not counting....). And my "word to the newbies" from an oldie is simply:  BE FLEXIBLE!

This was actually a hard thing for me to accept at first - I like my ducks (or in this case, dogs!) in a row, and everything well-planned in advance.
But putting on an event of this nature, this size, with folks and dogs from all over - well, it is a LOT of work.  Stuff happens. 

I'm just happy to be there (when I am), happy my dogs are healthy and running, and hoping for the best.
No, we don't always (well, hardly ever!) win; sometimes it's because of the "groupings;" sometimes it's because (imagine!) I have screwed up; sometimes it's because, well, stuff happens.

If we are grouped with older dogs, younger dogs, taller dogs, shorter dogs, more experienced dogs, less experienced dogs  - and they win - well, huge congrats to them!

My two cents' worth.
If you go, just remember:  you're a heartbeat away from NOT being there and so is your dog.  Enjoy the ride!
diane


Sandy Langan

  • 2016 Online Seminar Group
  • *****
  • Posts: 85
Re: 2017 Championships Group Info Emails
« Reply #20 on: August 25, 2017, 03:26:50 AM »
AMEN! Well said Diane. Sandy

dogrsqr

  • Trial Secretary
  • *****
  • Posts: 199
Re: 2017 Championships Group Info Emails
« Reply #21 on: August 25, 2017, 05:08:54 AM »
I agree well said Diane.

I haven't been to Champs in years but if nothing has changed....... if you can't be flexible you will not enjoy the experience.

Gina Pizzo
Abbey, Trek and Shay

dogrsqr

  • Trial Secretary
  • *****
  • Posts: 199
Re: 2017 Championships Group Info Emails
« Reply #22 on: August 25, 2017, 05:14:29 AM »
So to get back to the subject line ...... should we all have received this email by now?  I haven't so just wondering.

Thanks
Gina Pizzo
Abbey, Trek and Shay

Chris Nelson

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 799
Re: 2017 Championships Group Info Emails
« Reply #23 on: August 25, 2017, 09:01:44 AM »
So to get back to the subject line ...... should we all have received this email by now?  I haven't so just wondering.

Thanks

Yup everyone should have received them by now!
If you haven't just let me know and I can resend :)

dogrsqr

  • Trial Secretary
  • *****
  • Posts: 199
Re: 2017 Championships Group Info Emails
« Reply #24 on: August 25, 2017, 07:24:26 PM »
Thanks Chris.  I have not received it.

Gina pizzo
Gina Pizzo
Abbey, Trek and Shay

Chris Nelson

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 799
Re: 2017 Championships Group Info Emails
« Reply #25 on: August 26, 2017, 07:51:38 AM »
Thanks Chris.  I have not received it.

Gina pizzo

Just re sent :)

Sharon Nelson

  • Mother NADAC
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 6039
Re: 2017 Championships Group Info Emails
« Reply #26 on: August 28, 2017, 04:45:05 PM »
The groups email says:

"2) Pre-Elite does not get an extra division for Veteran handler or Veteran Dog.   This wasn't made clear on the entry form as it still asked for that info, but the request for that info was to get your jump height correct, not your competition group."

However, the PREMIUM specifically states in the Pre-elite section:

"If a dog is over 7 on August 1, 2017, then they MUST enter the Veterans division. If a dog is over 10 on the first day of the Championships, then they will be entered into the Double Digit division. Veterans may or may not be split into a different division in Pre- Elite, depending upon entry numbers. If not split, then all dogs jumping at the same height will be scored together."

My double-digit pre-elite dog does not have the double digit group designation in her groups email. She is listed as pre-elite-small. According to the premium, she should be in double-digit vets, even in pre-elite, because no exception was stated in the premium regarding double-digit vets.

Is there still a double-digit vets group in pre-elite, even though 7-10 vets was not split?

The key part there is this line:
"Veterans may or may not be split into a different division in Pre- Elite, depending upon entry numbers."

If we split one group of Pre-Elite with a veterans division than we have to do that for all of them.   And there aren't enough entries in Pre-Elite to make that a reality as we would be taking 4 divisions and turning it into 8.     

I actually am not sure we have ever had enough entries to warrant it, so we will most likely remove that line from next years premium.   I know we didn't split them in 2016 either.

You are correct, Chris.  We have never split Veterans in Pre-Elite.  We allow them to jump at their lowered jump heights but they don't have a separate division.

Sharon
Sharon
In-Sync-Agility