NADAC Awards/Ribbons at Trials

[dogrsqr]

When people start talking about their entry fees I typically feel the need to explain all that those entry fees pay for.

Equipment wear and tear/ replacement
Equipment storage fees
Equipment hauling/trailer
Insurance
Ribbons
Site rental fees
porta potties
Judges flight
Judges hotel
Judges meals
Judging fees
Judges gift
NADAC fees
Worker vouchers/raffle whatever you do for workers
Hospitality/snacks/worker lunches
And I'm sure there's other things I'm forgetting right now.

We try to keep our entry fees as low as possible.  We have a sliding scale depending on number of runs entered which ranges from $12/run to $10/run.  We do offer bars and ribbons but I can see that some clubs may not be able to swing that. 

I don't take any placement ribbons and haven't for years. 

And while it might cost a lot of money to earn a NATCH, that doesn't mean you spent all that money with one club.

Gina

[Audri, Cee Cee, Lily, Toto, and Calypso]

When people start talking about their entry fees I typically feel the need to explain all that those entry fees pay for.

Equipment wear and tear/ replacement
Equipment storage fees
Equipment hauling/trailer
Insurance
Ribbons
Site rental fees
porta potties
Judges flight
Judges hotel
Judges meals
Judging fees
Judges gift
NADAC fees
Worker vouchers/raffle whatever you do for workers
Hospitality/snacks/worker lunches
And I'm sure there's other things I'm forgetting right now.

We try to keep our entry fees as low as possible.  We have a sliding scale depending on number of runs entered which ranges from $12/run to $10/run.  We do offer bars and ribbons but I can see that some clubs may not be able to swing that. 

I don't take any placement ribbons and haven't for years. 

And while it might cost a lot of money to earn a NATCH, that doesn't mean you spent all that money with one club.

Gina

I totally get this Gina.  It does cost a lot to put on a trial.  In our area, if you get a  NATCH, you are basically getting it by running with a few clubs so in our case, "yes" we are spending the majority of it with the club that we get the NATCH with.  If I am up for a big award, I will try to plan it with a club that I have done a lot of trialing with and that I know has the bars or ribbons, or leashes (super cool ones for a NATCH!).  Fortunately, the clubs around here all do have at least nice ribbons for NATCH's.  If I know they don't have bars, I will make my own or just do without.   If I know that a club doesn't offer a bar or ribbon, I will hold off on running that event until a trial that I knows offers it.  Like I said, around here, all the clubs offer nice things for the big awards, so I don't really have to worry about it. 

[Rosemary]

I am well aware of the cost involved in running a trial.  What I was attempting to point out is that in many cases, exhibitors run with the same clubs.  Over time, they spend a lot of money, time, effort and often volunteer at the trials.  People see photos of people with their dogs and the big ribbons all the time.  A NATCH is a huge accomplishment and one to be celebrated. 

Playing agility with our dog is a wonderful thing.  That is the most important thing to keep in mind.  However, as one gets close to a big milestone like a NATCH - especially a first time - the big ribbon can be very important.   It is only fair to put in the premium that a particular club does not offer the ribbon or bar.  Most clubs do offer them, and it would be a shame for someone to be disappointed.   I would rather have the opportunity to make the decision to run elsewhere, not run whatever class is needed for the title or simply enter as normal and it being no big deal.  To not be forthcoming in the premium just to get entries is unkind.  By saying that you don't want it in the premium because you may not get an entry sounds kind of off to me. 

I am guessing that this thread began because someone earned a NATCH and found out after the fact that the particular club they were running with did not offer a NATCH ribbon and was pretty disappointed.  I have not yet gotten that far with any of my dogs, but we are close.  Call me shallow, but when or if I do ever get a NATCH I have a spot all picked out to display the ribbon with pride so anyone who comes to my house will see it.  I will be sure to double check with any clubs to make sure it is an option when I get close.  If it's not then I likely will enter because I love to play with my dogs.  I just won't enter the runs to put me over the goal line.

[dogrsqr]

I guess that's why I don't get it.  My NATCH bars are sitting in the corner of the house .... somewhere.  I would personally rather have the $20 and celebrate with a couple of cocktails.   

I'm not calling anyone shallow but it also seems a little off asking a club to put in their premium that they DON'T offer something.  Just ask if it's important to you.  I'm sure the trial secretary will be happy to answer. 

Gina

[Rosemary]

Wee I am glad we were able to have this conversation.  I think a lot was brought up and people have a better understanding of expectations - on both sides of the discussion.   
I look forward to meeting you at a trial some day.   

[agilityaddict2]

I don't consider running agility at a particular site with a particular club a "priveldge".(except the priveldge my dog is bestowing upon me} I pay what they ask me to pay and I volunteer all day long. I also have usually  traveled 3-5 hrs to get there and paid for 2 nights in a hotel. I never take ribbons, even title ones, but when i earn my Natch,which will probably be at the next trial i attend, I want something to show for it. And no, I dont think that is pretentious. I know the clubs I support all give a bar or something so no problem for me. I hope I never have to run at a trial that thinks it is a privelege. The privelege is having the participants that not only pay to run but are willing to  volunteer all day long.

[Lin Battaglia]

I am remembering the old days when one person would bring their A-Frame, another bring a couple of tunnels, another brought their jumps etc etc. We would all meet up and we worked hard just so we could play the sport. After 30+ years doing agility, I have seen people want more and more and work less and less. I haven't taken ribbons in years and years. I have trunks and trunks of them. I do take NATCH ribbons and any other high specialty award or ribbon but none others. I realize ribbons are important to new people and that's ok. Congratulations on their accomplishments. Would you stay away because there were no ribbons ? Or would you come for the fun with your dog ? Just remember it's the dog you miss not the awards and ribbons when they are gone.

[Edraith]

If you go down the road of its just about the dog, there wouldnt be any trials at all. 

Like it or not, if ya love trialing, there *is* a competition component, and with competition, comes recognition of success. Without the recognition of success, there isn't the point in competing. So be honest with yourself.

Otherwise, if it were truly just about the dog, or just about the people, folk would be happy to just play with their dog in their own yard or training space, and have potlucks with friends.

It isn't a bad thing to enjoy the competition aspect. I find most people who compete a lot and then say "Oh it's just about the dog!" are in some form of self-denial that they actually enjoy the competition component. Recognize it isn't just about the dog, but you too, and the enjoyment you get from competing. And THAT IS OKAY. Embrace it. It's not an either-or thing. It can be fun for your dog, and you too, for a whole host of varying reasons - and THAT IS OKAY! And realize most people who enjoy competing want the achievement recognized in some form (or what was the point of competing?), and standard form is ribbons/awards. If what is the Status Quo of standard for ribbons/awards isn't provided, it will create some bad feelings. Think of it in terms of positive reinforcement. If your dog was trying so hard for something, finally got it, but instead of a special reward (say status quo for a party is vienna sausage) for job well done, they got nothing. We'd never do that to our dogs. Of course we have higher reasoning skills, but it still doesn't "feel good".

[Foomin Z]

At one club I have been to, they offer title ribbons for a fee. They also charge a fee per day if you don't volunteer to work. The economy is tight in some places.

At another club, for finishing a title, I got a voucher for a free run for a future trial along with the title ribbon. Just the voucher would have been great. Not having to pay for a run is awesome.

Rather than using negative language in a premium to say a club does not offer title ribbons or other awards, I have seen them list what awards they do offer (placement, Q). If they don't list that title ribbons are offered, I know they are not offered.

Seeing a spot on the premium entry form for "Do you expect to finish a title at this trial" and a checkbox is a good way to let the club know to stock up on more champ ribbons ahead of time.

[Lin Battaglia]

Thank you Gina and Audri and others for pointing some of those trial fees. There can be more depending on where you are, inside or out too. And more if you are a business and not a nonprofit club. It makes no sense to me when people will drive three hours away from home (gas) to run in a trial with $10-12 run fees, stay in a hotel, and eat meals out rather than stay at home and pay $14 a run and sleep in their own bed and be inside ? And what did it cost the clubs to put on all those trials so people had a chance to get points for that NATCH ? I agree you should get ribbons but within reason. Competition is good. Accomplishments are good. 

[Lorrie Stelz]

Regarding the point that people shouldn't expect to receive ribbons, etc, and do it only for fun... for many, the ribbons are a symbol of that incredible team you and your dog have worked to become. Yes, we won't miss the titles, etc. when the dog is gone, but to look at that wall of amazing achievements you and your beloved teammate have come together to achieve is a symbol of what you and your partner have been through.  Would you tell married people that they shouldn't buy rings?  It's a symbol for them.  On a much smaller note, this is the same as ribbons, and bars.  For some it's important. For some it's not.  For me, I started training by myself and taught my 3 dogs all of our distance work, and my recent dog is 100% "home schooled".  To not have anyone's help in our success in the last 8 years, these bars and ribbons mean a huge amount to me what my dogs and I have succeeded at with all of our struggles and learning curves.  Again, I don't expect clubs to offer them, but I like to know as I will buy my own if they aren't available to have them for our championship photo and to hang on the wall as a memory of the hills and mountains we have climbed together as soul and teammates.

[David Tharle]

Interesting conversation. As Chief cook & bottle washer of a small club, with 1 trial a year, I don't want to have to have issue specialty ribbons. We have 1 to 4 placements as required and more recently we tried titling rosettes. To make the latter cost effective we ordered 100. After 3 -4 years, we still have about half a box and they're starting to look like 3-4 year old ribbons. I think the 3rd & 4th place ribbons are much older and we only ordeed 25 ea last time. We've had 4 NATCHes over the years I believe, and presented the team with an small token at a later date. Heck in our area (northern Alberta-Saskatchewan) it seems unless teams have been chasing a specific run for some time, many don't realize till after the trial.

One thing that I haven't seen mentioned is the fact the team receives a medal from NADAC.

[dogrsqr]

I never said that just because I'm not focused on ribbons that I ONLY do this for fun and titles don't mean anything to me. I like my titles as much as the next guy but the experience and relationship with my dog is the symbol not the ribbon or the bar.  I've had rescues some with considerable baggage and consider their titles a sign of accomplishing great behavioral changes.  I don't need a piece of material to remember that:  it's in my heart and my memory. 

Gina

[HarryMelamed]

I checked in  with Stanley and he told me that we can still go to agility trials without checking for ribbons first.

On the other hand, if for some reason, me and Stanley can pull it together for 9 more elite chances Q's, please make sure that you have the most amazing ribbons and poles waiting for us.