New rule changes

[Salli Dulco]

Hi Chris,
On Thursday, Oct. 27th, I watched your video regarding the new rule changes effective immediately.

Please clarify the following that I didn’t see in the updated rule book for the startline. How many attempts does a handler have to step back to the dog before it is considered training? 

And, are those attempts an overall total, regardless of what side of the obstacle plane the handler is on?

Thanks,
Salli Dulco

[KathieT]

Do you mean step back to the dog that is on a stay at the start line?  Unless something has changed, you are eliminated if you step back after leaving your dog at the start line. 

Kathie

[Salli Dulco]

There is a new rule as of 10/26.
The rulebook has been updated.
I need Chris to clarify what he stated in the video that I am not reading in the rulebook about the # of attempts.

Thanks,
Salli

[Deni]

If it helps, there was a section in the video where Chris said they will use the exact same rule as for training; anything more than 3 attempts is considered training.  Also worth noting; you cannot touch your dog once you leave them...

Happy Trialing!
Denise

[Steve Stochaj]

Three attempts.


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[Chris Nelson]

Three attempts, with the exception of folks really pushing the limits.

An example would be if you walked out to the far end of the course, and then walked back to your dog.   That is taking up a LOT of time and is clearly training

[JMDATX]

Thanks for the rule change!  The previous version of the rule caused a lot of eliminations for situations that were clearly not training.

[Lin Battaglia]

First let me start with...I came into agility from competitive obedience (not rally). You can think this is negative or not, and not post it, but I'm sad to see this rule change along with the end obstacle rule change, and the leash change. I've been doing agility for 30 years. It could take longer with every dog that has to have this extra time (which I consider training in the ring) thus adding time to the length of the trial. Plus now we throw our leashes and have to pick them up and open them up before we can put the leash on our dog. Is a dog really ready to trial without a start line stay ? Is a dog really connected to the handler and working if they run by the last obstacle ? I feel both are training issues, not rule issues. We are NADAC not other venues. Train your dog before you trial. I'd like to hear more from other people what they think . Please speak up folks. 

130 NATCHes but it's the dog I miss when they are gone not the awards

[Chris Nelson]

Leash runners are still allowed to hand you the leash.   That has not changed.


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[Chris Nelson]

I would love to say stick to our guns and people can train their dogs.  But I also want a future.  It won’t really feel great to say five years from now ‘ I’m sure happy I stuck by my guns’ if nadac is no longer around when I’m saying it.



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[Jeannie Biggers]

These changes have only positive effects for the handlers.  There is ALWAYS things we should be training our dogs to do better... hence the levels Intro thru Elite. 

What I saw at the trial this past weekend were handlers relaxed at the startline.  I feel that they actually had more solid startlines because they knew they could take that one step back if needed.  Not one person went past the first obstacle to use this new rule.  I believe it took less time then it would have otherwise.

The ending obstacle... yes train it but how many times does a young dog get distracted for a second and miss the last obstacle?  Why not let that handler fix it and feel good about it? 

I think that so many take this game we have the privilege to play with our dogs way to serious.  These amazing companions are only around for a short time... if we all continue to bash and hate and be negative... it becomes not so much fun

Just my two cents

[Chris Nelson]

And my final thought of the night.

It's incredibly hard to get handlers to improve if they aren't present.
I don't know about anyone else, but I can't help a handler with their start lines at my trial and encourage them to train better, if they are attending the CPE trial down the street.

I haven't quite mastered that skill.

[Kimgalusha]

I'm responding to Lin Battaglia post.  The change to the start line rule is good because the old rule punished teams that were not training a start line stay.  I have been competing in agility for 23 years and have trained and competed with 8 dogs (dobermans, border collies, JRT, Chihuahua and All Americans).  I have never trained a stay at the start line, nor have I ever attempted to train a stay at the start line.  We hit the course running together.  I'm currently competing with an amazing Chihuahua and her YPS can beat some of the leggy dogs but she will sometime freeze on the start line and it has nothing to do with me telling her to stay -- because I NEVER tell her to stay.  When I step back and encourage her to go, she will most often take off and have a beautiful run.  But the old rule did not allow me to do that.  I would get eliminated because I took one step back to get my dog --- not train my dog.  A stay at the start line is the last thing I want this dog to do.  :-)

[dogrsqr]

I have always believed that a stay at the start line is NOT a requirement of playing agility.  Not all dogs do well with being left at the start.  Some of us just pick our battles and have other battles that are more important to us. 

I honestly don't think this will add drastic amounts of time to trials.  If I want and need to train my start line I'm going to do it wether I get E'd of not. 

Gina

[KarissaKS]

I think both of these rule changes are positive and will foster good will with competitors who show in multiple organizations. I've heard several complaints from people about both ends of the course and if a small change like this creates a more positive view of the organization for multi-venue folks then that is a good thing. NADAC cannot succeed by catering only to those who exclusively compete in NADAC.

I've always disliked the final obstacle rule, especially for an organization that does not fault or penalize refusals in any way other than time. Missing the final obstacle can be very common in Intro/Novice and it can be very disheartening to these teams to have an otherwise clean run that is wiped out because their dog happily bounced right past the final hoop. NADAC's stance on refusals has always been "let the clock be the judge" in that if you can correct something and still be under time then good for you -- the last obstacle should be no different. I appreciate this change.

And finally, NO, not every dog should/could/would/needs to have a start line stay. That is completely up to the handler and the dog.