Author Topic: New Course Design !*&%&*  (Read 2430 times)

HarryMelamed

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New Course Design !*&%&*
« on: November 07, 2017, 07:21:36 AM »
Me and Stan were out  doing some NADAC agility this weekend.   For some reason, the course designers decided it was time to add hoop wraps.   Next time check with Stanley, he was not too hip on that new challenge

He let me know in no uncertain terms that I better learn how to handle these... and fast!

Roger Coor

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Re: New Course Design !*&%&*
« Reply #1 on: November 07, 2017, 09:12:17 AM »
Wraps with hoops are nothing new, so if Stanley didn't give a positive comment about it, it may be time to work on that skill. 

RobertStewart

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Re: New Course Design !*&%&*
« Reply #2 on: November 07, 2017, 09:40:39 AM »
Definitely not new at all. They've been around for quite some time now. And a lot of fun I might add.
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HarryMelamed

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Re: New Course Design !*&%&*
« Reply #3 on: November 07, 2017, 09:42:38 AM »
I've been around NADAC for 3 years and these were the first I saw this weekend.


mephalon

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Re: New Course Design !*&%&*
« Reply #4 on: November 07, 2017, 10:22:24 AM »
I (and my dogs) agree with Harry & Stanley. 

Definitely not a new skill and it is a skill we have practiced but this weekend's course sets definitely had more hoop wraps than I have ever seen in the past-   and IMO the wraps seemed not to enhance the course flow/challenge but just in there to change the dog's direction which could have easily been accomplished with a 180, serpentine or barrel rather than only (or mostly) using hoops wraps.   

No insult meant to the course designer just weighing in after having run them.   

M



« Last Edit: November 07, 2017, 10:43:42 AM by mephalon »
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BeckyAH

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Re: New Course Design !*&%&*
« Reply #5 on: November 07, 2017, 12:55:46 PM »
They have been around a while.   I saw some video this weekend and there were more, and there are DEFINITELY some more technical courses in a lot of ways (more direction changes, more discriminations that aren't contact/tunnel, more crowded courses/obstacles on a course) but hoop wraps in particular have been about for at least a couple of years.

There's a wrap on a hoop in the video below at 55ish seconds.  This is from March 2016, and  I didn't have problems with it/knew it was a possibility - this is VERY shortly after I started trialing.  So it's been around least a couple of years as a concept/skill.
 

« Last Edit: November 07, 2017, 01:01:34 PM by BeckyAH »

BeckyAH

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Re: New Course Design !*&%&*
« Reply #6 on: November 07, 2017, 01:48:11 PM »
As far as 'weighing in on course design' goes - as I mentioned above I saw some differences in the courses I ran over Halloween weekend.    They were hard.  My knee jerk reaction was 'OMGWTFACK'.   Then I got a chance to break them down and work on them and honestly?

They're challenging.  Heck, they're flat out hard.   They also don't require a single new skill for dog and handler and are wicked fun.   I know a lot of people are going to be less than happy, because it's human nature and because they *were* hard!  Heck, my human nature initially didn't enjoy it, but.

I really appreciate having some 'new' challenges for skills we already have.  It keeps things interesting and keeps me training.

That's MY .02 cents.

Lorrie Stelz

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Re: New Course Design !*&%&*
« Reply #7 on: November 07, 2017, 04:55:05 PM »
I agree. Hoop wraps have been around for years.  We don't see them often, but I've ran my fair share of them. 

I also agree that we ran some new, challenging courses on Halloween weekend at the trial I was at.  One of the Regular courses ran nice one way, but the reverse was pretty wicked.  Many of us NQd on the first run of them.  Chances was also a low Q course, and my dogs have about a 90-95% Q rate in Chances.  But, we found a little weakness we had.  LOL!
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BeckyAH

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Re: New Course Design !*&%&*
« Reply #8 on: November 07, 2017, 06:26:57 PM »
I agree. Hoop wraps have been around for years.  We don't see them often, but I've ran my fair share of them. 

I also agree that we ran some new, challenging courses on Halloween weekend at the trial I was at.  One of the Regular courses ran nice one way, but the reverse was pretty wicked.  Many of us NQd on the first run of them.  Chances was also a low Q course, and my dogs have about a 90-95% Q rate in Chances.  But, we found a little weakness we had.  LOL!

My Q rate in regular hovers around that 90/95% line (emphasis on regular and in fairness only with the elite dog) but this weekend it was more like 25%.  Some of it was definitely not the course, though :P   And one round my baby dog got the only clean round in Open so that was nice!

But yeah, mostly I found new things I need to work and some of it's with dogs and some of it's my course analysis skills as opposed to staring in horror and kind of freaking out.  Good time, over all, and I'm really more excited about my next trials than I was before, which is saying something!

dogrsqr

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Re: New Course Design !*&%&*
« Reply #9 on: November 07, 2017, 06:35:10 PM »
I'm going to disagree slightly.  I my have run those same courses on Halloween weekend.  There was a lot more collection than I'm used to.  While that may not be a new skill, it's something I've never been compelled to work on because I only run NADAC.  Amazingly we did better than normal on the regular course.  At this point I'm chalking it up to luck.  Teaching an 8 year old dog who is obstacle focused and extremely sensitive to pressure to work in tighter spaces is not sounding like much fun to me.  I guess only time will tell.

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Maureen deHaan

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Re: New Course Design !*&%&*
« Reply #10 on: November 08, 2017, 02:44:39 AM »
I actually liked the courses- there was one that was a bit tight IMO  - but I liked having more challenging courses - I thought both of my Elite dogs (one very seasoned and one newer to Elite) ran them well...I especially liked one that was a flat approach after a tunnel and back to the tunnel - weird angle but very cool!

  I thought having hoop wraps were good challenges and I saw many dogs "back hoop" so they were a handling challenge as well - I also saw many people handle them in different and creative ways that worked for their teams... I liked that they were not just  go from a contact to a hoop wrap to a tunnel discrimination - which was pretty much the only way we used to see them years ago when NADAC stopped doing that with a jump (we're talking a LONG time ago - like when hoops were first introduced)

I only play in NADAC, but I like having a challenge - The hoops were not the only challenges on these courses BTW  - so challenges with flow seems perfect to me -



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BeckyAH

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Re: New Course Design !*&%&*
« Reply #11 on: November 08, 2017, 04:21:54 AM »
I actually had more success on those courses with my younger, faster, pressure sensitive and obstacle focus dogs - at least rate wise. She ran both rounds 1 day, and Qed one of them.   

Though most of what I learned when I broke them down with my instructor was the ones I ran had plenty of flow, they just also required more side-changes TO flow - and with bigger/faster dog more discrimination skills since the distance between obstacles in the line the dog was running was about the same,  but there were way more off courses available.

But I also only run NADAC and am prone to 'bored now' a little, so like seeing new stuff (after I panic a little).  Also my dog isn't someone else's and I'm not someone else, and everyone's going to have their own reactions to things (and dog/handler teams are going to have individual challenges) and they're all very real and valid.

dogrsqr

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Re: New Course Design !*&%&*
« Reply #12 on: November 08, 2017, 05:49:55 AM »
Absolutely Becky.  I have an abysmal Q rate in Regular so those changes in Regular are huge for me.  Now if they want to make Chances harder .... go for it, but I suspect there would be a huge outcry if they did that.  All in all if my dog an I are having fun I don't worry about Q rate.  We will see what the new challenges are and go from there.

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Edraith

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Re: New Course Design !*&%&*
« Reply #13 on: November 08, 2017, 07:19:06 AM »
Omg the scenery in that video is pretty!!!
There were hoop wraps in two hoopers courses ive done so far. It was before i did some amandas online classes so while now i might handle it slightly differently, i just used around which is my wrap cue. Ive NEVER trained backsides so any wrap is always obstacle-first and wasnt an issue. I taught around using hoops because i didnt have jump uprights cones or barrels at home to use, so it was pretty natural for us.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2017, 07:21:12 AM by Edraith »
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KarissaKS

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Re: New Course Design !*&%&*
« Reply #14 on: November 08, 2017, 08:24:35 AM »
It disheartens me when I see people complain about challenging course designs or new challenges in agility. Personally, I like it when I walk a course and go, "Hmm, I'm not sure how to handle that," or, "I'm not entirely sure what my dog will do there." That's why I enjoy going to agility trials, so that I can be challenged by the courses and the things that other people think up. If I just wanted to watch my dog run really fast and go over obstacles I'd set up big speed circles in my yard and save the money I spend on trialing.

I've experienced this in another organization as well, not just NADAC. People want their Q's and sometimes I think they'd happily run a circle or figure-8 to get them. I always hope that those words don't make it back to the judges who designed those courses, because I don't want to discourage them from coming up with fun new challenges.

I *like* it when I go to a trial and come away with something new to train. I *like* having to handle my way through a course. I haven't seen this particular set of courses that people seem to be grumbling about, but I certainly hope for similar fun challenges at our NADAC trial coming up next month.
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