Distance Challenges

[Richard Wolfe]

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I agree, bonuses are not for every dog.  I guess I should have added to the startline needed is also because you need to get into a box
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I agree about bonuses.   And also that startline stay is needed but not mandatory unless you need to get into the box.  Also, no matter what division you're in, if you ever go to Champs you'll find one course that will make you wish you had one!!!!!

[Audri, Cee Cee, Lily, Toto, and Calypso]

I agree, bonuses are not for every dog.  I guess I should have added to the startline needed is also because you need to get into a box
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I agree about bonuses.   And also that startline stay is needed but not mandatory unless you need to get into the box.  Also, no matter what division you're in, if you ever go to Champs you'll find one course that will make you wish you had one!!!!!
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The thing is, she could probably do some of the bonuses and in the past, you didn't need a start line, so I attempted one, but then they started having the box where you needed it.  Truthfully, I could do a slingshot and get to the box before she gets to the first obstacle, but I was told that wasn't allowed. 

As for Champs, I have only had 1 course in 3 times there where I used a start line with her.  Mind you, she isn't terribly fast and I usually slingshot her, although at Champs I don't have the same amount of room that I do in a regular trial :-) .  She is also quite in tune to what I want her to do so I am usually pretty good.

[knittingdog]

I think Surge and I may try bonus boxes at some point, but I don't think we are ready just yet.  We practice a lot of distance at home, but not to that level.

I love Jeannies list of things to work on!  And the other things people have contributed!

One of the things I'm hesitant about is that the Bonus runs need to be videoed.  Why can't judges judge them on the spot?  Seems like they should be able to do that with some training.  From what I understand, only one video/run is required now - is this correct? 

There is also some subjectivity in them in that they have to be in flow.  I can see it being obvious if the dog is running around all over the place and in the middle of a run, but what exactly is a "wide turn" in some cases?  My dog goes through a hoop at full speed and makes a "wide turn" to the dogwalk because my turn cue was slightly late for example.

Robin


 

[Chris Nelson]

Subjectivity is the exact reason videos have to be sent in.

Getting 70 judges to all judge a wide turn the same way is quite impossible.   We know because judges used to judge bonus runs,   There are very valid reasons we stopped.

It’s much easier to get 3-4 on the same page.

Also,  if you’re going to be earning double or even triple the points of anyone else at the trial, you’ll have to put some more effort in to make it happen


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[knittingdog]

Subjectivity is the exact reason videos have to be sent in.

Getting 70 judges to all judge a wide turn the same way is quite impossible.   We know because judges used to judge bonus runs,   There are very valid reasons we stopped.

It’s much easier to get 3-4 on the same page.

I hadn't thought of it that way Chris.  Thanks!

[DebbieB]

Hello all, just a few thoughts from a relative newcomer..  I don't feel the original responses were saying the bonus program should get easier, it sounded to me like they were saying it would be nice to have some sort of stepping stone to the eventual goal of attempting bonus boxes.  I am wondering if more people would then think about training for distance. 

I have a young dog that would much rather work away from me so distance handling is intriguing.  I understand the original intent of the bonus program was to have a challenge above elite.  I think I would rather train my dog for distance from the start and work our way up to the bonus box if we become skilled enough. (Yes, we can just make an imaginary line even starting in intro :-)   It would be fun to have different lines even beginning in Open so you could graduate your distance skills with the goal of attempting the bonus box. it may be less intimidating and more enticing to be able to work up to it.  Having a distance/training section in the Forum would be so helpful, especially for the folks that don't have access to a local trainer that teaches distance skills. 

I guess it just depends on whether you want to encourage distance, which does add a whole other facet to agility.  For me, what sets NADAC apart from other venues is the attention to dog safety, fun games and distance handling/challenges.  Keep up the good work!

[Chris Nelson]

I would be way more open to the idea of lines in other levels strictly as a guideline for training.    But not extra points.   Because when 10 extra points are on the line a lot of people will ask way more of their dog then the dog is ready for.   Which in turn typically makes the dog hate distance.

So maybe if points weren’t involved and it was just a helpful guide for what a decent goal is,   Then I don’t think people would push their dogs as hard and turn them off from wanting that challenge


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[BeckyAH]

I would be way more open to the idea of lines in other levels strictly as a guideline for training.    But not extra points.   Because when 10 extra points are on the line a lot of people will ask way more of their dog then the dog is ready for.   Which in turn typically makes the dog hate distance.

So maybe if points weren’t involved and it was just a helpful guide for what a decent goal is,   Then I don’t think people would push their dogs as hard and turn them off from wanting that challenge


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I would LOVE to see some bonus lines on Novice courses.   No points, no just.  An opportunity to see where they'd be and maybe try.  I wouldn't even care if they were actually marked.  Drop my elite dog down to novice and practice would be a pretty awesome opportunity.  I mean, I fully intend to do basically that once we finish regular natch points (or sooner, depending) but it'd be nice to have something on the map I could look at to get a general idea.

[Sara Langston]

I would be way more open to the idea of lines in other levels strictly as a guideline for training.    But not extra points.   Because when 10 extra points are on the line a lot of people will ask way more of their dog then the dog is ready for.   Which in turn typically makes the dog hate distance.

So maybe if points weren’t involved and it was just a helpful guide for what a decent goal is,   Then I don’t think people would push their dogs as hard and turn them off from wanting that challenge


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I really like this idea!!!!

Sara

[cheyaut]

I just wanted to pop in and say that this past weekend, I finally got brave enough to try the distance challenge in regular, and the bonus box in jumpers. Now, I went in to this knowing it was going to be tough for my dog and I, and that it would likely take away a Q we could earn. But I didn't care, I was doing it for the challenge, for fun. It was double run, so I got to try it twice.

The first round of regular, I found out where we struggled. And that was ok! Rather than make it clean for a Q (minus the DC), I stayed where I was and had him take jumps over (just a couple) to get back in the flow, and at the end, he didn't get the right obstacle at the discrimination, but I went with what he took (because I'm positive he went where I directed him on accident!). So on round 2, I again stayed in the DC area, except those two spots, where I went in to help him out. We did Q that round, but that wasn't why I went in to help him, I knew what we were and weren't capable of so I figured I would help him out. But even when we take things incorrectly, it's not my dog's fault, so we just roll with it

On jumpers, we didn't Q either time, and that's ok. Again, I sent him back over a couple jumps to get the line right so I could handle it better, and he did great (I also went with him at the end, as that was beyond our current capabilities).

But anyhow, my point of this post was, I finally decided to go for it, with no expectations other than fun and a challenge, and those four runs were some of the funnest runs I've ever had! I only wish I asked someone to video the regular runs (again, I wasn't doing this for the points, I was doing this to see what we could do, so I didn't bother). But I did get a volunteer for the jumpers videos at least

Just in case you'd like to watch... in round 1, me throwing my hands up was when I said, what the heck am I doing? I had one of those brain fart moments haha And at the end, I ran out of space to move, my bad (plus, that was a little beyond our current capability, to keep going that far while I"m back... but if I didn't get myself stuck, it would've been better). In round 2, I got myself stuck and wasn't able to keep him going to the tunnel, my bad... and at the end I just went with him more so he wouldn't be confused

I look forward to working on some things I learned from this, and continuing to try some DC and bonus boxes for fun!

[Janice_Shavor]

Thanks for the videos and the explanations!

[Lorne McGee]

Perhaps it is an oversimplification to say that a more generous distance challenge line would be no different from an elite chances line. Why?  Number of challenges and obstacles. It is WAY easier to keep your s**t together for 11-14 obstacles and 2 challenges than it is for 19-22 obstacles and 5-6 challenges.  The 30-40’ you may see in elite chances is usually the apex of an arc or the dog going forward from a contact etc. Rarely do the dogs have to “do” or execute some type of handling move (except come) when they are out that far in chances. The distance line requires sustained connection and flow where chances does not.

I don’t understand why it is seen as dumbing down the program. I see it as a step wise opportunity for handlers to get hooked on big distance.  Not everyone has the opportunity to train at home with a yard full of equipment like a fair number of bonus handlers do.  I did StarterStakes at champs with a dog who only had 1 group lesson a week - but he had the right mind for it. Why not give the rest of the handlers an extra 5 points for keeping their team’s poop in a group for 21 obstacles at 30-40’?

Just my 2 cents.

[Chris Nelson]

I think folks need to see the new courses going out before changes are even considered.   We have over ten submissions from this past weekend,  which is a huge number.   I know of one trial that had over 14 attempts at bonuses or DC.   So I think we need some time with the new courses and DC before any changes are considered


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[LFuller]

Jessi,

I loved watching your distance attempts! You should be proud of your team . . .  great attitude. You are exactly what the bonus program needs. Keep up the good work.

[cheyaut]

Thank you very much

Jessi