Author Topic: course maps  (Read 5755 times)

susaneiss

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Re: course maps
« Reply #15 on: March 15, 2018, 12:15:42 PM »
Thank you so much for making this change. 

Pam Kaye

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Re: course maps
« Reply #16 on: March 15, 2018, 12:50:38 PM »
Good idea, Jeannie.  The maps shouldn't disappear, fly off in the breeze, or get placed in another location.
Pam Kaye
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gm5bkc

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Re: course maps
« Reply #17 on: March 15, 2018, 01:01:16 PM »
Oh yeah.  They can just be stacked on a table,  which is what I normally do.  Long as they are available.

A notebook with one set of maps is a good reference but a stack of copies that people can take each day (like DOCNA, USDAA, AKC) is nicer because you can take the maps back to your crate and study them between runs.  Metal clips can hold the stacks together at outdoor trials.
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Marj Vincent

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Re: course maps
« Reply #18 on: March 15, 2018, 01:09:21 PM »
At our trials, if anyone wants a copy, they simply take a picture on their phone.  And we don't have any wasted paper. Everyone is happy!

Here is picture of our new course map binder.   
Marj Vincent
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Chris Nelson

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Re: course maps
« Reply #19 on: March 15, 2018, 01:17:06 PM »
Yeah I think in the current day and age personal copies for every single exhibitor is a little over kill


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BeckyAH

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Re: course maps
« Reply #20 on: March 15, 2018, 01:18:45 PM »
Yeah I think in the current day and age personal copies for every single exhibitor is a little over kill


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HUGE waste of paper, too.

Edraith

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Re: course maps
« Reply #21 on: March 15, 2018, 01:38:41 PM »
Yeah I think in the current day and age personal copies for every single exhibitor is a little over kill


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HUGE waste of paper, too.
Get an iPhone then you can draw on the image with the built-in edit feature ("markup").
(I am sure there must be an andriod equivilant the way Android peeps like to brag about how much more advanced their phones are than iPhones :P )
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Merri

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Re: course maps
« Reply #22 on: March 15, 2018, 06:57:02 PM »
1.  Not everyone has a cell phone with camera/notebook etc.  By not providing paper maps, there is now a distinction between haves and have nots. Just because you have a phone does not mean everyone does.  If having a cell phone is now expected, I hope clubs make that clear so that those who do not have cell phones can choose.   Consideration for all entrants would be the best way to go so those with can use their phones and others can have maps.  If courses become more difficult because now people have time to memorize, then this will creating 2 tiers.  Some people would rather budget the money on agility, not on cell phones
2.  If course maps are available all weekend, then one can take maps for Sat and Sun and practice them at home before running the course.  VT runs require it to be the first run.  Therefore it seems better to only make maps available day of runs.
Merri Crawford

Marj Vincent

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Re: course maps
« Reply #23 on: March 15, 2018, 07:33:02 PM »
So I am thinking the paper needed to supply exhibitors maps is off the charts.  For example, our club offers 22 courses during a three day show.  So 22 courses x 4 levels = 88 different course maps.   Let's say there are 30 exhibitors (and that is a small trial)....so 88 x 30 = 2640 course copies would be needed....or 5 reams of paper or one whole case of paper!  I can't imagine any judge wanting to carry a case of course maps on the plane with them!  NADAC use to print out maps but that was when we only had 3 classes. Now we have 8 different classes. I am sure you could print copies on both sides of the paper....but you get the idea.....just not feasible or justified for this club!
Marj Vincent
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Chris Nelson

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Re: course maps
« Reply #24 on: March 15, 2018, 07:48:47 PM »
1.  Not everyone has a cell phone with camera/notebook etc.  By not providing paper maps, there is now a distinction between haves and have nots. Just because you have a phone does not mean everyone does.  If having a cell phone is now expected, I hope clubs make that clear so that those who do not have cell phones can choose.   Consideration for all entrants would be the best way to go so those with can use their phones and others can have maps.  If courses become more difficult because now people have time to memorize, then this will creating 2 tiers.  Some people would rather budget the money on agility, not on cell phones
2.  If course maps are available all weekend, then one can take maps for Sat and Sun and practice them at home before running the course.  VT runs require it to be the first run.  Therefore it seems better to only make maps available day of runs.

Regarding number 2,  if people want to cheat,  they will probably find a way.

If someone really wants to go home and set up a course so they have a better chance at the trial we canít prevent that.   

They could already be doing it,  if itís a double run trial youíll know that youíre running the reverse of todayís round, and you could go home and practice.

How often this happens I imagine is quite minuscule and I highly doubt it affects a q rate as we all know things always find a new way of going sideways!


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Cindy

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Re: course maps
« Reply #25 on: March 15, 2018, 07:53:44 PM »
So I am thinking the paper needed to supply exhibitors maps is off the charts.  For example, our club offers 22 courses during a three day show.  So 22 courses x 4 levels = 88 different course maps.   Let's say there are 30 exhibitors (and that is a small trial)....so 88 x 30 = 2640 course copies would be needed....or 5 reams of paper or one whole case of paper!  I can't imagine any judge wanting to carry a case of course maps on the plane with them!  NADAC use to print out maps but that was when we only had 3 classes. Now we have 8 different classes. I am sure you could print copies on both sides of the paper....but you get the idea.....just not feasible or justified for this club!

In the old days...pre cell phones...people would take tracing paper and would trace the posted course maps, then take that to their set ups to study or home to practice skills the courses pointed out they didn't have for the next trial.  No copies for the club, handlers who wanted them could have them, and all were happy.  Or at least all who wanted to be were happy.  Just a suggestion from the days before technology intruded into the game!

Cindy and the Beagles

Richard Wolfe

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Re: course maps
« Reply #26 on: March 15, 2018, 08:31:37 PM »
I don't see a need for NADAC, or any of the clubs for that matter, to provide room service. The maps are now going to be posted.  How the competitors deal with that is really their own business.
Richard Wolfe
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mephalon

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Re: course maps
« Reply #27 on: March 16, 2018, 04:04:58 AM »
So I am thinking the paper needed to supply exhibitors maps is off the charts.  For example, our club offers 22 courses during a three day show.  So 22 courses x 4 levels = 88 different course maps.   Let's say there are 30 exhibitors (and that is a small trial)....so 88 x 30 = 2640 course copies would be needed....or 5 reams of paper or one whole case of paper!  I can't imagine any judge wanting to carry a case of course maps on the plane with them!  NADAC use to print out maps but that was when we only had 3 classes. Now we have 8 different classes. I am sure you could print copies on both sides of the paper....but you get the idea.....just not feasible or justified for this club!

I really don't care if maps are provided (individually or posted) or not but just for perspective- I judge for another venue that provides course maps-   I usually have about 30 course changes given the levels and number of classes offered (and remember Regular 1/2 is just a reverse,  Tunnelers, Touch N Go don't change between E/O/N and Weavers and Chances have slight changes that don't need individual maps)-  you do not print the courses one per page but rather four per page and double side.     My costs for providing course maps ranges from $25-$40 depending how many people are entered and that includes builder copies.    I use a local UPS store and they charge $.05 per copy (and I am in the NYC area where prices are high but they have a loyal customer card type thing that brings the cost down).  So in actuality it is not all that much money or all that much an inconvenience for the judge.   

M
« Last Edit: March 16, 2018, 04:56:13 AM by mephalon »
Mary P.

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Re: course maps
« Reply #28 on: March 16, 2018, 05:39:10 AM »
I don't get it.  There were many years when we didn't even post courses.  Do you want your entry fees to go up to cover the costs of paper and printing?  Most of the clubs are trying to keep their operating expenses to a minimum so we can keep our entry fees lower than other venues to try to encourage participation in NADAC.  Maybe we should just offer course copies as an order to be placed with your entry and attach an extra charge to those that want paper copies.

Gina

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Re: course maps
« Reply #29 on: March 16, 2018, 09:16:53 AM »
Love this change!   I forgot this was the case at a recent trial!  I could have been memorizing courses before walking them so I could use my walk-through time for analyzing the best way to show the path to two very different running dogs (4" Lil and 16" Takoda).   Instead I was rushing around like a chicken without a head.  Silly in hindsight!

This is slightly onto a new topic but since it has to do with course maps.... I've heard that judges are now designing courses.  I LOVE THIS and I would LOVE LOVE LOVE to see judges bring their own courses to trials.  This way, over time we competitors would know what to expect (like in other venues) plus judges could see first hand how their courses were running.  This would likely influence future course design as judges figured out how to to put their personal twists on courses while staying true to NADAC's long time commitment to considering the dog's motion along with handling challenges.

I'd also love to see the name of the course designer on course maps when the courses are not designed by the judge at the trial.  When I used to compete in USDAA and AKC, knowing who the judge would be at a trial (meaning who would be designing the courses) influenced which trials I made sure to enter because I loved that judge's courses.  Also, clubs could select judges based on the style of courses they tend to design...what types of courses their club members and local competitors enjoyed running.  I see this as a win-win since competitors would have a say in what types of course challenges they want to see and NADAC and judges would receive ongoing feedback about the same.

Change is inevitable.  Growth is optional. 

I always opt for growth... and see my suggestions as rolling the NADAC change/growth ball further down the path its already heading.

I'd love to know what fellow competitors think!  Feedback is always welcome. 

Dev