Training the start line:

[Richard Wolfe]

I dont have much a startline, it is too demotivating.

So correct me if I am wrong.

But why wouldnt you train a start line within the current rules? Not by reseting your dog, but by reaising it is a new envioronment with new stimuli (and even different trials are gonna be different) so why wouldnt you pick a lead out that your dog can do and grow it as it generalises? Say in class you can lead out two obstacles. Do one in the trial, or a half of one, and grow it up from there to what you can do in class? Like...we do with any other behavior to generlise it? New environment = lower criteria  until it is generalised then build up criteria.

Well, for me, I could get Rumor to stay for a lead-out at home or even in class, but when I turned to do that at a trial she would be gone and would break again if reset.  So leaving the ring was the alternative that I took.

[Rosemary]

I dont have much a startline, it is too demotivating.

So correct me if I am wrong.

But why wouldnt you train a start line within the current rules? Not by reseting your dog, but by reaising it is a new envioronment with new stimuli (and even different trials are gonna be different) so why wouldnt you pick a lead out that your dog can do and grow it as it generalises? Say in class you can lead out two obstacles. Do one in the trial, or a half of one, and grow it up from there to what you can do in class? Like...we do with any other behavior to generlise it? New environment = lower criteria  until it is generalised then build up criteria.

Probably, if the dog is holding 99% of the time, they have.

It's just a matter of figuring out what you're going to do that 1% of the time the dog breaks.  No training or dog is completely perfect; it happens.   Some dogs will shut down if you remove them, some dogs will get 'ring smart' and realize they CAN break at a trial, some dogs will fall in neither category or somewhere between the two.

My dog was exactly that, ring smart. 

I don't understand how a startline is demoralizing.  I have a very fast dog and I need to start out ahead of him.  If I don't, then we have a battle with the sheltie spins and a very frustrated dog.

[BeckyAH]

I dont have much a startline, it is too demotivating.

So correct me if I am wrong.

But why wouldnt you train a start line within the current rules? Not by reseting your dog, but by reaising it is a new envioronment with new stimuli (and even different trials are gonna be different) so why wouldnt you pick a lead out that your dog can do and grow it as it generalises? Say in class you can lead out two obstacles. Do one in the trial, or a half of one, and grow it up from there to what you can do in class? Like...we do with any other behavior to generlise it? New environment = lower criteria  until it is generalised then build up criteria.

Probably, if the dog is holding 99% of the time, they have.

It's just a matter of figuring out what you're going to do that 1% of the time the dog breaks.  No training or dog is completely perfect; it happens.   Some dogs will shut down if you remove them, some dogs will get 'ring smart' and realize they CAN break at a trial, some dogs will fall in neither category or somewhere between the two.

My dog was exactly that, ring smart. 

I don't understand how a startline is demoralizing.  I have a very fast dog and I need to start out ahead of him.  If I don't, then we have a battle with the sheltie spins and a very frustrated dog.

Demoralizing depends on the dog, too.  Some dogs worry or stress down if they're left at the start-line while the owner leads out. It's just another thing where you need to read the dog and do what's right for them.

[dogrsqr]

I dont have much a startline, it is too demotivating.

So correct me if I am wrong.

But why wouldnt you train a start line within the current rules? Not by reseting your dog, but by reaising it is a new envioronment with new stimuli (and even different trials are gonna be different) so why wouldnt you pick a lead out that your dog can do and grow it as it generalises? Say in class you can lead out two obstacles. Do one in the trial, or a half of one, and grow it up from there to what you can do in class? Like...we do with any other behavior to generlise it? New environment = lower criteria  until it is generalised then build up criteria.

If you're talking about me and Abbey ... she is not a new dog and these are not new environments.  Something has happened that caused here stress and now things that didn't previously cause her stress are causing her stress.  I am trying to take smaller lead outs, but without the lead outs I used to have things will just fall apart.  At the last trial I did reset her and had barely begun to walk away and two dogs got into a verbal disagreement right behind her (one in a crate). She flipped around with terror in her eyes, so I just got my leash and we left.  Leaving her again was not going to be productive.

Gina

[Edraith]

I dont have much a startline, it is too demotivating.

So correct me if I am wrong.

But why wouldnt you train a start line within the current rules? Not by reseting your dog, but by reaising it is a new envioronment with new stimuli (and even different trials are gonna be different) so why wouldnt you pick a lead out that your dog can do and grow it as it generalises? Say in class you can lead out two obstacles. Do one in the trial, or a half of one, and grow it up from there to what you can do in class? Like...we do with any other behavior to generlise it? New environment = lower criteria  until it is generalised then build up criteria.

Probably, if the dog is holding 99% of the time, they have.

It's just a matter of figuring out what you're going to do that 1% of the time the dog breaks.  No training or dog is completely perfect; it happens.   Some dogs will shut down if you remove them, some dogs will get 'ring smart' and realize they CAN break at a trial, some dogs will fall in neither category or somewhere between the two.

Ahhh okay, so this discussion is for when the dogs "wised up" and started outsmarting their people, hehe. They sure are good at that!