Increasing Participation in NADAC

[lorriemaxx]

Here’s a thought.....letting people that do other venues start at the same level in nadac, instead of having to start in novice. Some of the other venues do this. Might get some newbies to nadac but not agility to try nadac that otherwise would not

The problem with this is that the challenges in NADAC are quite different from those encountered in other venues.  UKI, which grandfathers in other levels from AKC and USDAA, does not grandfather in NADAC for that reason.  This is NOT a slam on any venue - I have noticed that dogs that do the tighter courses and have been trained that way have a very difficult time with the longer spacing in NADAC in general.  I think it would be discouraging for the dog to be competing at the Elite level if they have not mastered driving to obstacles at those distances yet.

Lorrie

[Billie Rosen]

Lorrie, I'm not sure I agree with your observation that dogs that have been trained in USDAA, AKC, and UKI have trouble with the NADAC obstacle spacing.  For example, at the UKI Championships and now in at least some USDAA trials, the obstacle spacing has been noticeably lengthened, and the dogs and handlers seem to really like it.   Hope that trend continues.  Maybe we could convince some of those folks to try NADAC.

[lorriemaxx]

Lorrie, I'm not sure I agree with your observation that dogs that have been trained in USDAA, AKC, and UKI have trouble with the NADAC obstacle spacing.  For example, at the UKI Championships and now in at least some USDAA trials, the obstacle spacing has been noticeably lengthened, and the dogs and handlers seem to really like it.   Hope that trend continues.  Maybe we could convince some of those folks to try NADAC.

What we see in this area are dogs that continuously turn back to their handler if the next obstacle isn't very close.  I've heard a number of people state that their dog isn't used to having so much room between obstacles.  Different areas of the country differ, of course, on how they train.

Lorrie

[Audri, Cee Cee, Lily, Toto, and Calypso]

One of the things that kept me from trying other venues is the fact that I would have to start back at Novice for my elite level dogs.  Yes, it would be a fun time with my dogs, but the cost of AKC runs are $22.00 each and Novice usually runs late in the day.  So, assuming a perfect Q rate, I would spend a lot of money just to get to the elite level with my dog when I believe that they are beyond the novice/open level.  And the fact that most times Novice doesn't start until after noon, it blows my whole day.  Yes, the courses are slightly different and there are some tighter turns, but that is nothing that I haven't trained for (or could easily train for).  And as far as FAST, well we do well beyond that distance on a novice course so there is no real challenge there. 

I would say that if you allowed people to move into whatever level they chose (and they have the option of moving back down) it would help.  Like Karissa said, for the games, (tunnelers, TNG) the courses are exactly the same, it is just a difference in time.  For weavers, the course is the same, but the weaves are fewer.  If they are in elite in other organizations, then they are doing 12 weaves anyway.  If they have issues of the dogs turning back into them on a jumpers course, then they know what they have to train for, but they are going to do the same thing in novice or open so what difference does it make?

[Karen Birdsong]

Age in Intro - I need to think about this some more, but putting the suggestion here on the request on a person entering my clubs trial. 

Suggestion is to lower the entrance age of dogs in Intro.  Perhaps 16 or 14 months.

Personally I keep thinking about the lower the competitive entrance age, the younger and harder youngsters may be worked by their handlers. 

If the age was lowered, then I would suggest that the maximum jump height be 12" instead of 16" for any dog under 18 months.

[Chris Nelson]

I worry about people working their dogs too early as well.

The counter to that is that people will do it regardless,  they’ll just do it in another venue.

So maybe it would be beneficial to allow it in a environment that is less strenuous then the other options.

Intro classes only,  max heights etc etc


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[Team Bailey]

The growth plates in a puppy aren't closed in a lot of breeds by 14 months.  If jumping, it could cause fractures and other complications in the puppy.  I think it would be better to keep it at the current age. 

[Amy McGovern]

But they are closed in others much earlier (smaller dogs)....

[mstomel]

or you could just take jumps out of intro all together. And then you wouldn't need pole setters and classes would run really fast... just throwing that out there.

[Maureen deHaan]

There is no need to rush our dogs into the ring. I have been participating in NADAC for 20 years and the age has always been 18 months to be in the ring - Please don't change it!

I love it for many reasons in addition to the growth thing. Brain maturity, behavior maturity , time to train your dog without putting it in the ring too early and having teamwork disasters , time for them to come to trials and learn ring side / trial / travel / crate  manners , time for them to learn to be dogs.

 I cringe at other venues who allow dogs in the ring at 12 or even 15 months - and cringe even more when people put/ rush their dogs in the ring when they are clearly not ready (dog and handler) but just bc they are old enough -

[Kyle]

I worry about people working their dogs too early as well.

The counter to that is that people will do it regardless,  they’ll just do it in another venue.

So maybe it would be beneficial to allow it in a environment that is less strenuous then the other options.

Intro classes only,  max heights etc etc


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NADAC has always been the venue that truly cares about the dogs' well being and has boldly been the front runner in standing behind that premise. By saying that people will still run their dogs in another venue so NADAC might as well allow it too, only compounds a known problem - people will run in both venues, not just one. In some areas (with more NADAC trials available), it may double the damage done to those very young dogs. NADAC will then be a part of the problem not a leader in the solution.

Stick to your guns. Keep the starting age where it is. Help keep our NADAC dogs running agility well into their "senior" years as we see at the trials. 

JMHO.

Kyle

[Cindy]

NADAC has always been the venue that truly cares about the dogs' well being and has boldly been the front runner in standing behind that premise. By saying that people will still run their dogs in another venue so NADAC might as well allow it too, only compounds a known problem - people will run in both venues, not just one. In some areas (with more NADAC trials available), it may double the damage done to those very young dogs. NADAC will then be a part of the problem not a leader in the solution.

Stick to your guns. Keep the starting age where it is. Help keep our NADAC dogs running agility well into their "senior" years as we see at the trials. 

JMHO.

Kyle

I agree wholeheartedly with what Kyle said.  Just because other venues do, doesn't mean they should.  While there are variations in when individual dogs are ready, I appreciate NADAC having a line that considers the maximum safety for the dog.  Let the other venues do what they do, and let those of us who are NADAC only remain confident that the decisions at the top are being made with our dogs' safety as the number one guiding principle. 

JMHO   

[Chris Nelson]

Never said we were changing anything




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[Chris Nelson]

Again not saying we’re changing anything,   But for the sake of discussion.


Let’s say a new person wants to do agility.   They don’t know anything about waiting and just want to get going.   They start in AKC at 15 months.
The odds are that person will never leave AKC, once someone starts with a certain venue it’s very hard to sway them to something else.


So that dog will then be jumping 24.  Hard turns, etc etc.   and likely retiring before 10 years old.

Now take that same team,  dog turns 15 months and they can now do akc or nadac.

They play with both because at this point they aren’t committed to anything.

If they stick with nadac the dog will be jumping lower for its entire career,  and the other benefits of nadac.

Assuming the average nadac career that dog would be competing until they are 12 and probably still sound.   That’s pretty average for a lot of nadac dogs.


So did we really harm that dog by giving them an option to get started in a venue that will be better for them long term?   Especially if that option is limited to intro classes and lower jump heights.

Just food for thought.     Sometimes the long term is hard to see.


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[Team Bailey]

What has happened to the BA-1, BA-2 and BA-3 for the puppies prior to turning 18 months?