Author Topic: Preventing Aggression Issues with staging boxes  (Read 2959 times)

Marj Vincent

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Preventing Aggression Issues with staging boxes
« on: May 03, 2018, 06:54:04 PM »
With all the talk about closing and shutting ring gates, I wanted to discuss what happens outside of the ring and maybe a possible solution to prevent issues. This past weekend we had an aggression incident that ended up with a dog being excused from the trial. This incident happened outside of the ring, near where the dogs were waiting to come into the ring. The dog in question was not running in the class but the waiting dogs were very near to his crating area. When the handler returned to their crate it lunged at the waiting dog who was just standing there.  The lunge pulled the leash from the handler and contact was made.  Snarls and lunging is something that I see at trials when there is a line of waiting dogs near the crating area. Nothing as serious as this incident but I think we could prevent some of these type of issues with a little ingenuity.

One of the things that the Montana clubs do, that I think helps prevent the interaction with waiting dogs, is they created little staging boxes to keep those dogs away from the crating areas.

We set up 5'x5'  free standing pvc pipe walls and hang sheets over the pvc. But I have seen one club that used the frame of the old pvc gates and covered the sides with a solid piece of plastic so the dogs couldn't see through them. Those boxes were 4'x4' in size and worked just as well.  The gate steward simple tells the handler what box they are in and you don't have any dogs waiting in lines near the ring entrances or exits.  We have 3 dogs in the boxes, and they shift to the new box as each dog runs....kind of like what happens at Champs. You can interact/treat your dog without worrying about any other dog in your space or walking by.

This type of set up only takes up about 12' from the ring edge. Since no crating is allowed within 10' from the ring, it doesn't take up any crating space.
The attachment below is a diagram of our set up.

Marj Vincent
Scotty & Java
Ontario, OR

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David Tharle

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Re: Preventing Aggression Issues with staging boxes
« Reply #1 on: May 03, 2018, 08:34:14 PM »
These work really well and allow you to focus on your partner and the course without intrusion.   We're fortunate to have a lot of ring space, but other clubs use the smaller boxes Marj described equally as well. We have old sheets sewn to drop over the NADAC gates.

Dave Tharle
PAWSitive Dog Sports Associaiton
Cold Lake, Alberta
Dave Tharle
Ardmore, AB

dogrsqr

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Re: Preventing Aggression Issues with staging boxes
« Reply #2 on: May 04, 2018, 05:25:55 AM »
I am not a fan of the staging boxes for one of my dogs.  I am usually far away from the gate watching and waiting for our turn. As long as you allow (and the places I've been to do) for those of us who don't wait well to skip the boxes and go straight to the start line I'm happy with the box arrangement. 

Gina

Marj Vincent

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Re: Preventing Aggression Issues with staging boxes
« Reply #3 on: May 04, 2018, 06:25:06 AM »
 Gina, we don't demand anyone use the box....there are a few exhibitors that simply go to the line from their crating area.  They simple signal the gate they heard their position in the box. The boxes also shows the judge when dogs are ready and lined up to start a class.     
Marj Vincent
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Ontario, OR

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MoabDiane

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Re: Preventing Aggression Issues with staging boxes
« Reply #4 on: May 04, 2018, 08:26:30 AM »
I like the idea. But I’ve also seen an aggressive dog leave the ring to attack a dog in the last box.  Also not very practical outdoors.
Wish there was an easy solution beyond training, management and handlers paying attention to their dogs!

Diane

Re: Preventing Aggression Issues with staging boxes
« Reply #5 on: May 04, 2018, 09:01:09 AM »
My issue isn't so much with lining up, because most places that I trial at have either a separate area that is for staging (indoor soccer arena with crating outside of the ring and staging inside the walls), or PLENTY of room to crate away from the ring.  However, what I have found is really bad is people who are watching and are standing right in front of my crate area with their dog at the soccer arena.  Or they are standing in the middle of the aisle, watching the run, not paying attention to their dog at the end of the leash and others can't get by.   I know it isn't intentional, but I can see if there is a dog that doesn't like other dogs, this could be an issue.  People need to be cognizant of their own dog and where they are.  They need to NOT be on top of someone else's crating area or standing in the middle of the aisle.  In the case that Marj posted, I understand the dog lunged, but was it REALLY that dog's fault if another dog was in "their" space?  And who knows, if the other dog was making eye contact as well. 
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dogrsqr

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Re: Preventing Aggression Issues with staging boxes
« Reply #6 on: May 04, 2018, 09:36:08 AM »
Even where we have lots of room and crating in a separate area I still have problems with lining up.  There seems to be people who insist on hanging around the gate area well ahead of their turn in the ring.  I figure if you're not up in the next three dogs move away from the gate.  That's also the area where people get into a conversation with another handler and totally ignore their dog and what they're doing. 

I am truly amazed at the lack of understanding of dog behavior by people who spend so much timevwith dogs.  Can't tell you how many times I've heard someone say ...., for some reason dogs are always growling etc at my dog.  And they have no idea it's because their dog is always watching other dogs instead if being engaged with them.

Gina

Becky Woodruff

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Re: Preventing Aggression Issues with staging boxes
« Reply #7 on: May 04, 2018, 02:34:20 PM »
Oh Gina, I'm so with you.........

Becky
Becky Woodruff

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Re: Preventing Aggression Issues with staging boxes
« Reply #8 on: May 04, 2018, 03:58:23 PM »
Staring dogs are the bane of my existence.   Or, well, my dog's.

Well, that and the odd person who walks within about 6" of where I'm crated and then, when the dog goes off, tries to 'help' by standing there and continuing to coo and talk at them instead of *moving on*.   

This is never competitors (well, that once, but I haven't seen that person in years, and he really was never nice, just-), but I'm about to start setting X-pens up around my entire area just to keep people out of my dogs' faces.  Two of three don't care much, but that third one ends up agitated, worked up, tense, and then I get to go take her in the ring.   Works fantastically, let me tell you.

bhodges865

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Re: Preventing Aggression Issues with staging boxes
« Reply #9 on: May 08, 2018, 09:48:38 AM »
I've seen people put up "barriers" in front of their crating area to keep other people and dogs back.  As far as being in line or hanging around, other sports I participate in have a "8-ft rule"....all dogs should be kept at least 8 feet apart.  Now this means all handlers need to be aware of their dog and the space around them.
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Marcy Matties

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Re: Preventing Aggression Issues with staging boxes
« Reply #10 on: May 08, 2018, 11:02:42 AM »
Like all of these suggestions.  Though I do have to point out - if your dog doesn't like other dogs in close proximity - please don't crate close to the entrance and exit areas.  Make an effort to crate somewhere more appropriate for their comfort zone.
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Scott Casino

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Re: Preventing Aggression Issues with staging boxes
« Reply #11 on: May 10, 2018, 07:31:09 AM »
You can try to manage aggression all you want by adding boxes, x-pens, etc. Management techniques may reduce risk but will fail at some point because of complacency—or worse—denial by the owner (I say this as the owner of a dog who was victimized by such an owner). Management won’t help in those situations because the owner doesn’t think either they need to take appropriate precautions or that their dog has behavior challenges. It still boils down to the astute awareness and smart decision making by dog owners/handlers.

While I feel that the bulk of the responsibility for managing a dog with behavior issues is on its owner, the sad reality is that at some point they will fail to do so. Which means that burden is shifted onto the dog owners around the irresponsible owner. This begs the question of how does one protect one's dog from someone else’s when you don’t know theirs has a problem?
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Jackie

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Re: Preventing Aggression Issues with staging boxes
« Reply #12 on: May 10, 2018, 09:07:36 AM »
I agree with you Scott.  I like the boxes as a "zen" place to connect with my dog, but I have seen plenty of dogs peek under the curtains at the dog next door, etc.   I think it does come down to owners taking responsibility and making sure they are paying attention to their dog.  No amount of pens, curtains, gates, etc. can take the place of common sense.  I worry that in making things so "safe" we are letting owners get too complacent.  I just judged a trial with just a tape around the ring.  There were no incidents of aggression or even of happy dogs leaving to visit.  Because the dogs were trained and connected to their owners.  What a concept.
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Sharon Nelson

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Re: Preventing Aggression Issues with staging boxes
« Reply #13 on: May 10, 2018, 06:35:48 PM »
I agree with you Scott.  I like the boxes as a "zen" place to connect with my dog, but I have seen plenty of dogs peek under the curtains at the dog next door, etc.   I think it does come down to owners taking responsibility and making sure they are paying attention to their dog.  No amount of pens, curtains, gates, etc. can take the place of common sense.  I worry that in making things so "safe" we are letting owners get too complacent.  I just judged a trial with just a tape around the ring.  There were no incidents of aggression or even of happy dogs leaving to visit.  Because the dogs were trained and connected to their owners.  What a concept.

Where was that?  I want to go there!!

Sharon
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Ed Scharringhausen

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Re: Preventing Aggression Issues with staging boxes
« Reply #14 on: May 11, 2018, 02:36:53 AM »
We’ve used tape a handful of trials.  I loved it. Sharon, come on over. 🤓

Folks with no or very limited recall didn’t like it. A few nasty responses to it.  Some worried about other dogs running in. Of course, they forget about the entrance and exit. 😁  We succommed this trial and put up temp fencing even though our whole facility is fenced in TWO LAYERS. Pretty sure we are going back to tape or just corner field paint or chalk 🤓.

If a dog is aggressive, don’t hurry it into agility until you have a recall and control. If you don’t have a recall and your dog is aggressive:  don’t run your dog.

My observation at our trials: Most exhibitors are good at paying attention to their dog on leash and in crating areas. Some are not. Address the ‘nots’, multiple times, politely yet firm if needed. Make them aware. Try to educate them on safety.

At our trials we continually remind folks not to get too close to entrances or ‘gather’. AND Each Morning ‘Brief Loudly’ “not too many dogs in the high traffic areas.”

As a Judge I assess those areas every trial.
Ed Scharringhausen