Author Topic: Preventing Aggression Issues with staging boxes  (Read 3384 times)

BeckyAH

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Re: Preventing Aggression Issues with staging boxes
« Reply #15 on: May 11, 2018, 07:10:08 AM »
I would love and enjoy the stalls/boxes for line up but I think I would honestly love even more if judges included reminders to give dogs and one another some space and not to bunch up at entries and exits as part of the general briefings.  That one's cheap :P  So, basically, exactly what Ed does.

As an aside, I do have One Of Those Dogs.  ...I would much, much rather run with a ring marked with tape or chalk than somewhere with multiple layers of fencing forcing alleyways and bottlenecks by turning movement into and out of the ring and around the venue into a  narrow maze.  She's not going to leave the ring or blow me off.  She is going to yell if she comes around a corner and another dog is 2 feet from her face.   Those places I do not and will not take that particular dog, for everyone's comfort.  (This is not saying I am always perfect, I'm not.  I've accidentally chosen my place a bit back from others badly and *created* a blind corner for her.  ...I apologized and did better.)

MoabDiane

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Re: Preventing Aggression Issues with staging boxes
« Reply #16 on: May 11, 2018, 09:32:14 AM »
So totally agree about the crowding at entry areas!  Especially outdoors, if its hot and there's a shade tent/umbrella(s) provided. 
My dogs aren't aggressive or reactive; one gets a bit stressed if it's too crowded (but has never shown it except to me, I can tell!).

There shouldn't ever be more than 3 dogs waiting within 15' of the ring entry - yes?
But I've witnessed up to 10!!!!!!  Some may know each other and be fine with that. Others may not.

As someone above said - I notify the gate steward that I'm present, watch for the dog who's running right before me, and bowl my way through the crowd to the entry.

It sure would be nicer if everyone considered everyone else, watched their dogs, and played nice!

diane

Steve Stochaj

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Re: Preventing Aggression Issues with staging boxes
« Reply #17 on: May 13, 2018, 01:33:25 PM »
I agree with you Scott.  I like the boxes as a "zen" place to connect with my dog,
The boxes are rarely used as a place to connect with your dog. Usually the handle is watching the ring and feeding their dog.  And if you are actually trying to connect with your dog you have to fight all the treat and crumbs left on the ground of the box.

Steve


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Jeannie Biggers

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Re: Preventing Aggression Issues with staging boxes
« Reply #18 on: May 13, 2018, 02:14:30 PM »
We have used the box system for years in Montana and they have worked out really well for our arenas.  The majority of people like them and use them... I would say maybe 1% dont use them with certain dogs and that is fine.  The dogs get the routine down and enjoy the process of moving from box to box. 

Marj only put this out there for a suggestion for areas that have line up issues.  We had just come off of a trial that didnt use them and crowding at the gate was overwhelming for me as a human  :-\  My dogs handled it but I have spacial issues I guess LOL 

There is no "system" out there that will keep every dog safe or every handler safe and you will always have handlers that just dont get the space issues of some dogs (or in my case human :| ). 

I just saw this post on Facebook:

"Think of the leash itself as your Emergency Backup Plan, not your main means of communicating with or controlling your dog.  If your leash is your primary means of communication and control, then your dog knows that you have no control once the leash is off.  Even if you never plan to walk your dog off leash, your dog should think the leash is irrelevant.  The connection should be between YOU and your dog, not the leash and your dog."  SmarterYouHappierDog

If only everyone could get this right??
Jeannie Biggers
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Pam Kaye

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Re: Preventing Aggression Issues with staging boxes
« Reply #19 on: May 13, 2018, 07:03:28 PM »
Great post, Jeannie.
Pam Kaye
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Lin Battaglia

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Re: Preventing Aggression Issues with staging boxes
« Reply #20 on: May 14, 2018, 08:42:00 AM »
Staging boxes are a good idea in crowded venues. But is it just me or does anyone else see something wrong with AGGRESSIVE or reactive dogs entering ? What do we want the general public to see at trails ? I've been competing in agility for 30+ years. Dogs are not as well trained regarding behavior as when we first started. Now many rings are fenced and recently you can use gates because of aggressive dogs. But there is still one dog waiting sitting in the ring with a questionable dog. Many of us came from Obedience to Agility. People sign my entry form that says, "I certify that the dog entering is not a hazard to persons or other dogs." Now what happens if I start to allow known aggressive/reactive dogs into my trails. Does that void my insurance ? What happens to my insurance rates ? There will be another incident. My trials are well run and organized but I've had a child bitten, an adult bitten and dog fights due to owners inattentiveness and badly trained dogs. So do clubs/businesses follow their own policies now and refuse entries ? What is the procedure for dogs that are written up ? Clubs need to be informed of the outcome after a report.   
« Last Edit: May 14, 2018, 11:15:02 AM by Lin Battaglia »

BeckyAH

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Re: Preventing Aggression Issues with staging boxes
« Reply #21 on: May 14, 2018, 11:52:36 AM »
I agree that a dog who is incapable of being in the general environment of a trial without acting in an aggressive manner should not be there.  It isn't fair to that dog, and it isn't fair to other competitors.

HOWEVER, the missing part of this is that many, many dogs in agility - and in life, but particularly agility because of the breeds who are popular as agility dogs - do not appreciate dogs who are hard staring, invading their space, or behaving rudely.     They are otherwise completely capable of being there, being comfortable, and being no problem for anyone.  Asking people to keep a brain in their head, not crowd at entries and exits, and ideally maintain reasonable distance (8 feet I think someone said) between their dogs and others is important.

I absolutely believe a dog should need to be able to not stress out other dogs or behave badly at agility -or public, period.  That means not lunging, growling, or barking like a fool at other dogs (and possibly traumatizing them or stressing them out)- but it ALSO means not  creating issues and behaving badly with exuberantly friendly behavior, or being allowed to wander into another dog's space/leash range (and possibly traumatizing them or stressing them out) because the handler checked out or just doesn't think anything's wrong with that.

I would much rather deal with a well managed reactive dog who's owner is paying attention to their dog's needs and space at a trial, than the owner of a happy go lucky exuberant dog who believes their dog cannot possibly be a problem and allows it to greet every other dog and person in the area.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2018, 11:55:56 AM by BeckyAH »

Edraith

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Re: Preventing Aggression Issues with staging boxes
« Reply #22 on: May 17, 2018, 09:11:26 AM »
I would much rather deal with a well managed reactive dog who's owner is paying attention to their dog's needs and space at a trial, than the owner of a happy go lucky exuberant dog who believes their dog cannot possibly be a problem and allows it to greet every other dog and person in the area.
THIS
Also I wish there would be a shift in training to include exuberance into the reactive umbrella, because, it is. It's amped up and crazed by the stimulus, and instead of going "fearful/lashout reactive" it is going "psycho to say hi!" reactive. Neither dog has control of their brain, both dogs are "hindbrain unthinking" in that state, and both dogs need their people to pay attention to them and keep their focus and work on proper stimulus processing and calming protocols. [I say this as the owner of a dog in the psycho to say hi group, and three years ago I realised it is the exact same techniques that "reactive dog" people use, works!]
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Re: Preventing Aggression Issues with staging boxes
« Reply #23 on: May 18, 2018, 07:33:51 AM »
One of the reasons I won't do USDAA is that I went to a trial to watch some friends.  I couldn't believe the chaos in the area around the ring.  Dogs were tugging all over the place, dogs were barking, dogs were staring at each other and all of this was mostly near the ring.  Many of them were off leash.  People were also crowded around the exit.  I watched handlers come off the course and were tugging with their dogs off leash and then talking to their friends about their runs without ever putting the leash back on the dogs.  Some dogs were OK doing that, but others started barking or staring at other dogs in the area.  It was quite an uncomfortable experience for me. 

I have a dog who used to be quite reactive to other dogs getting in her face.  She still is at times, but not nearly as bad.  I tend to stay way back in the staging area, and when the dog before me is in line, I get up and start moving forward so that when they are on the line, I am ready to go.  When we are walking to the area and when we are in there, I try to keep her focus on me with treats and tricks.  I also know the dogs and the people who tend to not pay too much attention, so I steer clear of them.
Audri, Lily, Cee Cee and Toto, Calypso

dogrsqr

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Re: Preventing Aggression Issues with staging boxes
« Reply #24 on: May 18, 2018, 08:28:22 AM »
What Becky said.  We didn't used to see reactive dogs, but that was before everyone started stressing dog socialization, which eventually got misinterpreted to mean my dog should want to go visit every other dog.  This created dogs that found other dogs more fun than their own human and humans who think that's ok.

Gina

BeckyAH

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Re: Preventing Aggression Issues with staging boxes
« Reply #25 on: May 18, 2018, 10:53:57 AM »
What Becky said.  We didn't used to see reactive dogs, but that was before everyone started stressing dog socialization, which eventually got misinterpreted to mean my dog should want to go visit every other dog.  This created dogs that found other dogs more fun than their own human and humans who think that's ok.

Gina

Yeah. 

And I see a whole lot of dogs, my own sometimes included, who 20 or 30 years ago would have been accepted as 'normal' being labeled problems.  Dogs who do things like growl and air snap with another dog charging into their face,  body slamming them, pawing at them or trying to climb them in the name of play are suddenly 'dog aggressive' and 'bad'.

No.  They're dogs saying 'no' to a rude heathen of a dog.    The dog doing the growl and air-snap is not the problem.  Not appreciating rough, physical, or rude behavior from an unknown dog is not a sign of bad temperament.

Re: Preventing Aggression Issues with staging boxes
« Reply #26 on: July 06, 2018, 12:07:42 AM »
I'm afraid it's true that no matter what a club does, the ultimate responsibility is going to fall in the person with the aggressive dog. You can be as Vigilant as you want with your dog, but if someone is not careful with their aggressive dog you are at some point probably going to fall victim to a dog of that kind. You know how your own dog reacts, but not everyone else does. I don't know what the suggestion ultimately is, but training and taking more seriously the events that occur dogs might help to control the matter. And I agree that there are many people out there that you would think would know better have no idea that their dog is staring down other dogs. Years ago I remember a dog that everyone who competed regularly knew was aggressive towards other dogs. There were quite a few incidents. The one that really bothered me was someone who didn't regularly attend our trials was out in the ring, and the dog in the ring eventually charged this dog who was right at the edge of the Ring which was only tape. The woman with the dog in the ring got excused. But the other dog, who was staring down that dog with intimidation should have also been excused. It should have been excused long before that incident. Is education the answer? I would like to think so.
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Sharon Nelson

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Re: Preventing Aggression Issues with staging boxes
« Reply #27 on: July 06, 2018, 09:06:00 AM »
What Becky said.  We didn't used to see reactive dogs, but that was before everyone started stressing dog socialization, which eventually got misinterpreted to mean my dog should want to go visit every other dog.  This created dogs that found other dogs more fun than their own human and humans who think that's ok.

Gina

Yeah. 

And I see a whole lot of dogs, my own sometimes included, who 20 or 30 years ago would have been accepted as 'normal' being labeled problems.  Dogs who do things like growl and air snap with another dog charging into their face,  body slamming them, pawing at them or trying to climb them in the name of play are suddenly 'dog aggressive' and 'bad'.

No.  They're dogs saying 'no' to a rude heathen of a dog.    The dog doing the growl and air-snap is not the problem.  Not appreciating rough, physical, or rude behavior from an unknown dog is not a sign of bad temperament.

Amen.  If more people would show respect to the dogs that are growling about the "approaching" dog and realize that they are doing the same as a human holding a hand outwards to stop another person from approaching any further, then we would direct our attention on the REAL misbehaving dog........... the one that is rudely entering the space of the other dog.  The dog that is standing still and growling or lifting a lip is not the problem.
Sharon
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