Author Topic: Facility With Turf for Champs  (Read 2224 times)

Billie Rosen

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Re: Facility With Turf for Champs
« Reply #15 on: October 02, 2018, 11:34:58 AM »
Sorry, my computer is not cooperating.  That last post again sent before I was finished.  I was saying that dirt generally is not my favorite surface, but it can be good and not good, just like turf, artificial turf, etc.  So the real question is the actual facility's surface, not just what kind of surface it has.
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Richard Wolfe

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Re: Facility With Turf for Champs
« Reply #16 on: October 02, 2018, 01:36:46 PM »

The one time I ran on artificial turf, static electricity was a problem for me.

April

I'm really shocked to hear that.




Uh...sorry, April.  I couldn't resist.
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Ed Scharringhausen

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Re: Facility With Turf for Champs
« Reply #17 on: October 02, 2018, 03:55:56 PM »
Agreed April. You are correct. And actually it is generally believed that ‘indoor’ turf is loaded with bacteria which neither chemicals (which tend to not be applied enough in most facilities) nor the sun can deplete. Not sure who said turf is cleaner but they need to check their info.
Ed Scharringhausen

mephalon

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Re: Facility With Turf for Champs
« Reply #18 on: October 03, 2018, 12:30:31 PM »
Agreed April. You are correct. And actually it is generally believed that ‘indoor’ turf is loaded with bacteria which neither chemicals (which tend to not be applied enough in most facilities) nor the sun can deplete. Not sure who said turf is cleaner but they need to check their info.

Turf may be "cleaner" from the "I don't have dirt on my clothes and skin" perspective but as an environmental lawyer I can tell you-  artificial turf is NOT cleaner than dirt- from an "ingredient"  (i.e. chemicals) perspective and a "cleanliness" (i.e. spill clean up) perspective.     
Mary P.

Marj Vincent

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Re: Facility With Turf for Champs
« Reply #19 on: October 03, 2018, 01:22:28 PM »
As a few have said, not all artificial turf is the same. Not all dirt facilities are the same. The NADAC crew did a great job of raking the weaves, and other areas that needed attention during the Champs.

From my experience judging and watching dogs run on various turf locations, I have witnessed many dogs slip and fall on turf. I have also seen dogs slip and fall on wet grass. Both can cause injuries.  I don't see a lot of dogs slipping on dirt but it depends on the type of dirt surface. A hard packed surface with grains of sand on top can be quite slippery for both handler and dog.

Many of the highly competitive fast NADAC dogs have handlers that refuse to run on turf due slippage and injuries. I have spoken to many handlers of very fast dogs and they all say the same thing...no way would they run their dog on turf because of the slippage issue.

Another thing I have witnessed while judging, when big fast dogs run on turf for the first time, and slip on a turn, many will then go into self preservation mode and will slow down to prevent injuries. This in turn leads to lower YPS for those dogs. I have also watch many videos of dogs that I personally know and have noticed how slow their runs are on turf vs dirt.  A huge difference in DRI's.

I can't say all dogs will slow down, some don't care about their bodies and will run and fall a lot....which makes me cringe when I am judging. What I have witnessed is those teams are not longer running at those facilities when I come back to judge there. Either because the dog has injured himself, or the handler has realized the dog is not taking care of its body and the handler must do it for them.

On the other hand, I have heard from a lot of small dog (4'-8")) handlers that love the turf because of the levelness of the turf. Their dogs seem to run faster on turf. 

So I think there are some pros and cons about turf vs dirt, and IMHO it depends on the size and speed of your dogs.
Marj Vincent
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Chris Nelson

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Re: Facility With Turf for Champs
« Reply #20 on: October 04, 2018, 03:12:36 PM »
Pretty much what everyone before me as said is correct and the main reasons we don't use a turf facility, but I'll echo a few of them just in case:

Facility size is a big one.  This year we used a full 125' X 350' arena and honestly we were a bit cramped at times.     Next year in Ohio we might not even be able to do two rings because the Champions center is only 128' X 202'.     

Turf quality is another big one.   Not all turf is created equal.    I know of about 2 facilities in the entire country that have what I would consider 'nice' turf.   And they definitely aren't large enough for an event like ours.

The other issue is like others have mentioned the really fast dogs do tend to have more issues on turf.   With our small dog entries ALWAYS being the smallest, and our large dog entries always being the largest, it wouldn't be a smart move to change to a surface that could possibly alienate the largest group of attendees.

Lorrie Stelz

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Re: Facility With Turf for Champs
« Reply #21 on: October 04, 2018, 08:54:12 PM »
while I love running on turf, I have had some experience with some facilities and watched my dogs, who are fast, but not blazing, slip on one location's turf a few times.  I think dirt is much more forgiving (again, assuming it's a "good dirt") and NADAC is able to find a handful of large horse arenas across the country to hold Champs at those with the required other needs (crating, arena size, restrooms, vendor space, RVs, cost...)  My preferred surfaces are:  dirt, turf, grass, matting with dirt easier on my dogs.  Wet grass/contacts worry me a lot during outdoor trials until they dry out and always hope my dogs take it easier until then.  I don't have good experience with matting.
I watched a lot of weave pole grooming on the live feed during Champs.  Kudos to your workers!!  :)
Lorrie Stelz
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John H. Gooldy

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Re: Facility With Turf for Champs
« Reply #22 on: October 05, 2018, 06:46:12 AM »
Chris thanks for the input. Size of building biggest problem. Saw lots of raking of poles at Champs but with little dogs the big hole is just filled in for a dog or two. Depth of dirt throughout rings concern me also but I do understand every bodies concerns and appreciate all the input. Looks like dirt it will be. Thanks to all.
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